[94racing]

I think id run another year. I think the lowest we can get our car woud be around 3100 without driver but i think poes have one that can go down to 2700 but im not sure if that was him or not? I know theres a few of them running around 2700/2800 but idk i they will this year. Especially with the new rules. The only thing the s197 and 2012 has over the other cars is that we have the 4 wheel alternative controled brakes (cant think of official name) i guess the antilock is supposed to be that much better. Were running the fr500 brake controller in ours. Works amazingly actually it is just so hard to tell the difference from looking at it though from the gt or gt500 one

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by 94racing I think id run another year. I think the lowest we can get our car woud be around 3100 without driver but i think poes have one that can go down to 2700 but im not sure if that was him or not? I know theres a few of them running around 2700/2800 but idk i they will this year. Especially with the new rules. The only thing the s197 and 2012 has over the other cars is that we have the 4 wheel alternative controled brakes (cant think of official name) i guess the antilock is supposed to be that much better. Were running the fr500 brake controller in ours. Works amazingly actually it is just so hard to tell the difference from looking at it though from the gt or gt500 one

Run another year? As in buy a different car?

Interesting on the weight. About 3300 with driver is what I was figuring for a race weight S197. I can't imagine adding in 450 lbs to the car due to class rules!!!! Talk about a performance killer! I wonder what a 2900lb S197 (with driver and fuel) would do on a track!

As for the brakes, are you talking about the brake proportioning valve that is supposed to automatically adjust brake bias front/rear based on braking needs?

[94racing]

Originally Posted by Whiskey11 Run another year? As in buy a different car? Interesting on the weight. About 3300 with driver is what I was figuring for a race weight S197. I can't imagine adding in 450 lbs to the car due to class rules!!!! Talk about a performance killer! I wonder what a 2900lb S197 (with driver and fuel) would do on a track! As for the brakes, are you talking about the brake proportioning valve that is supposed to automatically adjust brake bias front/rear based on braking needs?

i mean run another year with the class youre in then bump up.
the guys with low like 2900 lbs are fast in the corners and coming out but they come up short at the end of the straitaways you know (power to weight)? im kinda wondering if i can take some weight off the top and have a lower center of gravity. i think it would help with diving into the corners and keeping speed. we are putting a fuel cell in the trunk and down low in the rear then probably a diffuser and try to smooth the underside of the body out a tad. on the brakes on a s197 the front and rear operate seperately like any other car but also the right and left operate seperatly. this make the braking superior by a massive amount (apearently?) and thats why they are picking on the s197 so bad. this is what i understand anyway i know that the abs in my car sucks compared to moms.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by 94racing i mean run another year with the class youre in then bump up. the guys with low like 2900 lbs are fast in the corners and coming out but they come up short at the end of the straitaways you know (power to weight)? im kinda wondering if i can take some weight off the top and have a lower center of gravity. i think it would help with diving into the corners and keeping speed. we are putting a fuel cell in the trunk and down low in the rear then probably a diffuser and try to smooth the underside of the body out a tad. on the brakes on a s197 the front and rear operate seperately like any other car but also the right and left operate seperatly. this make the braking superior by a massive amount (apearently?) and thats why they are picking on the s197 so bad. this is what i understand anyway i know that the abs in my car sucks compared to moms.

Ohh yeah, that is the plan. I'm one who likes to plan things out WAY in advance. It gives me plenty of time to do the research necessary to make sure what I'm getting is going to work well with each other (most importantly) and is going to match my intended goals. F-Stock will be my home this next year but I will be running in the street tire PAX instead of the standard PAX.

Yeah I hear ya on the power/weight issue. What power are they restricted to at 2900 lbs?! Stockish power?

Didn't know about the brakes operating independently left/right. I wonder what that does with the traction control off (if anything). I wish I had the cojones to post on the Corner Carvers webpage to ask about the brake system on the S197. I love learning tiny things like that which you don't find in any manufacturer brochure and I would be interested to hear how it works and how it impacts performance. What I do know is that my car isn't any faster with TC on or off provided wheel spin is kept at a minimum in the rear. I would be especially interested to hear how that left/right braking impacts the rear diff's operation in cornering. I would think it would have a huge benefit on the V6 mustangs with the open diff, but I would think it would add wear and tear to the stock LSD in the GT's.

[94racing]

Originally Posted by Whiskey11 Ohh yeah, that is the plan. I'm one who likes to plan things out WAY in advance. It gives me plenty of time to do the research necessary to make sure what I'm getting is going to work well with each other (most importantly) and is going to match my intended goals. F-Stock will be my home this next year but I will be running in the street tire PAX instead of the standard PAX. Yeah I hear ya on the power/weight issue. What power are they restricted to at 2900 lbs?! Stockish power? Didn't know about the brakes operating independently left/right. I wonder what that does with the traction control off (if anything). I wish I had the cojones to post on the Corner Carvers webpage to ask about the brake system on the S197. I love learning tiny things like that which you don't find in any manufacturer brochure and I would be interested to hear how it works and how it impacts performance. What I do know is that my car isn't any faster with TC on or off provided wheel spin is kept at a minimum in the rear. I would be especially interested to hear how that left/right braking impacts the rear diff's operation in cornering. I would think it would have a huge benefit on the V6 mustangs with the open diff, but I would think it would add wear and tear to the stock LSD in the GT's.

um look at the nasaforums or the scca forums and look at the american iron or some other series. you will see. and at 2900 i think it was around 300 rwhp. at 2900 it depends on with or without abs. i think with abs its 9 to 1 and with is 9.2 to 1. i think anything other than the new and s197 mustang is 9.5 to 1

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by 94racing um look at the nasaforums or the scca forums and look at the american iron or some other series. you will see. and at 2900 i think it was around 300 rwhp. at 2900 it depends on with or without abs. i think with abs its 9 to 1 and with is 9.2 to 1. i think anything other than the new and s197 mustang is 9.5 to 1

Yeah I had some free time on my hands to investigate the hooplah about the S197's braking system. I think the majority of the issue is that it's a 4 channel ABS unit which allows each wheel to receive anti lock braking when it is detecting a potential lock up when most other vehicles in the series are all 3 channel (Fronts independent of each other and rear all together). But I think a lot of folks are bitching about the FR500 ABS unit which allows the wheels to get closer to lock than the stock S197 ABS units do. I guess the new BOSS302's come with a unit similar to the FR500 unit but it doesn't go as far as the FR500 unit does before kicking in. That and the FR500 unit looks like the stock unit so it's hard/difficult to enforce.

I would be interested to see more details though. I still wonder if it allows the inside wheels to receive more braking pressure than the outside wheels in a turn, but I'm not holding my breath on that!

I'm glad tax season is finally here, I just wish my employers would hurry up and give me my W2's so I can file my taxes and get my tires! Which is about all I'll be able to get with it. =(

[Whiskey11]

Alrighty folks. I figured I should update.

I ordered 245/45/18 Star Specs today after much deliberation. Andy Hollis over at SCCA Forums stated that going to a wider than the rim tire doesn't do much for overall grip and kills steering feel. Combine that with the fact that there are not 265 width tires near 26.7" (or the factory 27.3") tire height and the choice was logical.

However I have a predicament. I really, really, really would LOVE to run in RTR next year as it's basically THE class I've wanted since I started, but, my right front strut mount is popping over speed bumps (and my driveway). I've checked the sway bar endlink on that side half a dozen times and it's tight and good to go leaving only the strut mount dying the logical source of the problem.

So the question is, buy a set of OEM strut mounts and replace these as they fail and get the Ford Camber Bolts to get my camber adjustment (total cost of around $150 give or take) and run RTR or just get the Steeda HD mounts and jump to STX and run basically stock suspension except shocks/struts and some front end camber...

In the process of doing either I will be replacing all of the Strut to Spindle bolts. My buddy installed them with an impact and messed up a flag on one of the bolts (impact on the wrong side of the bolt) and it would be nice to have the fine thread bolts with higher torque rating.

What say the almighty autocrossers of Modded Mustangs?

EDIT: I just purchased a set of lightly used Steeda Sport springs from a member here so that throws out all of the Camber bolt discussion. It will be STX and the HD's. Now just to save up and get the Steeda HD mounts. These springs wont be installed until I've got the supporting hardware. That being a Watts Link, Steeda HD's, new spindle bolts at a minimum; I would love to have the Steeda Comp UCA and mount too but that may be pushing it for this year and it's not "required" per-se.

[Boss002]

I was going to say just got to the new RTR , but looks like you decided on STX. I've been on and off reading the thread about Vorslagen (sp) or however you spell it on sccaforums.com (linked to cc I believe) and they are having some trouble being competitive with their stang.

But the way I look at is is, the more mods, the faster you go, the more fun you have right?

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by Boss002 But the way I look at is is, the more mods, the faster you go, the more fun you have right?

Honestly? I've generally found it to be the opposite. I mean, just look at the language we use when we start going faster: "I'm getting serious about it this season." The key words there are "getting serious", i.e. no longer treating it in a fun and light-hearted manner.

And when you're constrained on the top end for speed anyway, like you are on public roads or at AX, there's only so much faster that's fun before you stop being able to use what you have, and before you're chasing diminishing returns. Sure, tires are an easy couple seconds... and you'll never see that kind of time return on any mod again ever. Down at the fast end, they'll spend two grand on shocks that might shave a couple hundredths off a lap over the $1000 shocks that are maybe a tenth faster than the $600 shocks that are maybe half a second quicker than OEMs.

[Boss002]

well all things within moderation at least... I believe their is still fun to be had in competition, but that fun part kind of blurs when you get "super serious". The top end is always about competition, $$, and usually cars that people won't even cruise on a sunday anymore.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Boss002 I was going to say just got to the new RTR , but looks like you decided on STX. I've been on and off reading the thread about Vorslagen (sp) or however you spell it on sccaforums.com (linked to cc I believe) and they are having some trouble being competitive with their stang. But the way I look at is is, the more mods, the faster you go, the more fun you have right?

Vorshlags problem is power, weight and tire width. Those guys really got their priorities backwards for that car. Power is fun, but 368 to the wheels is really pushing it on a 265 tire so adding power into the 400s range isn't exactly smart. Notice their problem was never cornering traction it was throttling out of the corners. I'm bone stock drivetrain wise, maybe making 270 to the wheels on a great day.

They also did NOTHING to their rear suspension after the drop until recently and even then I think they are leaving a lot on the table with the PHB. With their budget I don't see why they can't afford to make or buy a watts link. They may want to invest in a torque arm as that may give them the rear end bite they need to win. I see them doing very little more before they switch to ESP.

I would love to do RTR but the ball is in motion for STX. I sadly will be retaining the PHB until I can afford the watts. Springs will be here monday/Tuesday, the steeda HD mounts on Wednesday. I'm debating breaking down and ordering stranos sway bars and leaving the UCA out. I'm not sure. At this point I want to see how far out the rear end steps when I drop it on steeda sports before I buy anything. I'm not sure how the car will be balance wise with out a larger rear bar. Only driving will tell me.

Tires go on tomorrow and I can't wait!

[Fast92Coupe]

For the high power guys, I think the electronic throttle body and the way it opens VERY quickly at low throttle settings is what makes it hard to modulate. Getting out of my 06 and into my stroked HCI 95 it feels sluggish at first due to me barely touching the gas. And it's not sluggish at all- press the throttle down hard from a second gear roll and you'll spin the street tires. Drive it for a couple days then get back into the 06 and I'll be at 3,000 RPM before the clutch is out for the first couple starts.

I had 400+ at the wheels in my 92 coupe in SM. On 275/40-17 V710s you could put the power down very well, and the current STX tires are almost equal to the V710s. That car only weighed 2940 lbs, so doing it at 3300+ is definitely possible.

The minor asymmetry of a panhard can actually be an advantage with a solid axle- counteracting the ring gear torque reaction slightly. The tiny amount of side-side movement in a panhard is nothing compared to how much the sidewalls flex. I would not expect a watts link to provide a noticeable improvement, unless there's a big roll center change and other changes to optimize the suspension to the new roll center. Even then it might not be moving the roll center in the right direction.

For what they've spent on shocks I could probably do everything I want to do to my 'vert suspension-wise.

Justin

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Fast92Coupe For the high power guys, I think the electronic throttle body and the way it opens VERY quickly at low throttle settings is what makes it hard to modulate. Getting out of my 06 and into my stroked HCI 95 it feels sluggish at first due to me barely touching the gas. And it's not sluggish at all- press the throttle down hard from a second gear roll and you'll spin the street tires. Drive it for a couple days then get back into the 06 and I'll be at 3,000 RPM before the clutch is out for the first couple starts. I had 400+ at the wheels in my 92 coupe in SM. On 275/40-17 V710s you could put the power down very well, and the current STX tires are almost equal to the V710s. That car only weighed 2940 lbs, so doing it at 3300+ is definitely possible. The minor asymmetry of a panhard can actually be an advantage with a solid axle- counteracting the ring gear torque reaction slightly. The tiny amount of side-side movement in a panhard is nothing compared to how much the sidewalls flex. I would not expect a watts link to provide a noticeable improvement, unless there's a big roll center change and other changes to optimize the suspension to the new roll center. Even then it might not be moving the roll center in the right direction. For what they've spent on shocks I could probably do everything I want to do to my 'vert suspension-wise. Justin

God I hope you are right about current street tires being almost (almost) equal to a set of R-Comps. I don't think so, 1-2 seconds is what I hear the most for time difference on the nationals concrete. We'll find out this year when I compare my car in RTR trim with Star Specs to the local Shelby GT in F-Stock on A6's.

As for the PHB comment, I disagree. The problem with the PHB on the S197 chassis is that the height of the PHB isn't adjustable, on either the axle end or the chassis end. When lowered the PHB is at roughly level point, at which point it has very little or zero impact on torque control. To do so it would have to be angled. You are right, the arc is VERY small assuming metal bushings and zero bar deflection. The bar itself is 42" in length (I've heard slightly shorter, but mine is 42" from bolt center to bolt center). At stock ride height you would be correct, it would have some force to counteract that torque.

The biggest advantage of the Fays2 unit is the adjustable RC and the ability to raise or lower it compared to stock. IIRC as much as 2" in either direction IIRC. It's also a constant RC unlike the PHB which moves up and down AND in an arc. The difference is enough that Sam Strano has championed it's use in autocross. It may not matter on a roadcourse, but the asymmetry in slaloms IS noticeable.

I'm no professional race car driver. Last year was my first year autocrossing and even I noticed the asymmetry with the stock geometry in the slaloms. The car was easier to upset moving left than moving right. That type of inconsistency hurts the already mediocre slalom performance of the Mustang.

If I retain the PHB geometry it's only because I can't afford the Watts link, and it's not by choice!

[Fast92Coupe]

Originally Posted by Whiskey11 God I hope you are right about current street tires being almost (almost) equal to a set of R-Comps. I don't think so, 1-2 seconds is what I hear the most for time difference on the nationals concrete. We'll find out this year when I compare my car in RTR trim with Star Specs to the local Shelby GT in F-Stock on A6's.

Actually, what I said is the current top STX tires are almost equal to V710s, which are probably 0.5-1 second off the pace of A6s. I don't think Dunlops Star Specs are the best STX tire out there- they're probably 0.5-1 second off the pace of the Hankook RS-3s, so I'd guess you're probably going to be 1.5-3 seconds off F-Stock, assuming equal drivers. Keep in mind they're going to be shoehorning 295s on their stock rims, and 245s are too small for 3600+ lbs of car & driver. Locally, you might do very well-it just depends on what your competition is like. Sounds like you did well locally last year. d you'll definitely do better than last year between the tires and learning more about autocrossing.

Originally Posted by Whiskey11 As for the PHB comment, I disagree. The problem with the PHB on the S197 chassis is that the height of the PHB isn't adjustable, on either the axle end or the chassis end. When lowered the PHB is at roughly level point, at which point it has very little or zero impact on torque control. To do so it would have to be angled. You are right, the arc is VERY small assuming metal bushings and zero bar deflection. The bar itself is 42" in length (I've heard slightly shorter, but mine is 42" from bolt center to bolt center). At stock ride height you would be correct, it would have some force to counteract that torque.

Assuming you start with a level panhard, any chassis roll introduces an angle between the bar and the ground, and between the bar and the car. Bumps do also, which is an argument for a watts link. Most drivers would be very hard pressed to tell the difference, assuming the same bushing material on both. Roll center adjustability is nice to have though. I thought I saw someone offering an adjustable bracket for a panhard on the S197, but it might have been just one end to re-level it after changing ride height. Not saying a watts isn't better, just that it isn't as big a difference as many people think.

Differences in slalom performance left to right is likely the result of one or more of these:
1. Bad shock or mount on one side.
2. Preload on the anti-sway bars.
3. Cross weights off.

I've done some pro racing, but it's been years, and I never made a living from it. In my best year I broke even, which is actually pretty good.

My advice is to mod the car how you want and have fun with it.

Justin

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Fast92Coupe Actually, what I said is the current top STX tires are almost equal to V710s, which are probably 0.5-1 second off the pace of A6s. I don't think Dunlops Star Specs are the best STX tire out there- they're probably 0.5-1 second off the pace of the Hankook RS-3s, so I'd guess you're probably going to be 1.5-3 seconds off F-Stock, assuming equal drivers. Keep in mind they're going to be shoehorning 295s on their stock rims, and 245s are too small for 3600+ lbs of car & driver. Locally, you might do very well-it just depends on what your competition is like. Sounds like you did well locally last year. d you'll definitely do better than last year between the tires and learning more about autocrossing. Assuming you start with a level panhard, any chassis roll introduces an angle between the bar and the ground, and between the bar and the car. Bumps do also, which is an argument for a watts link. Most drivers would be very hard pressed to tell the difference, assuming the same bushing material on both. Roll center adjustability is nice to have though. I thought I saw someone offering an adjustable bracket for a panhard on the S197, but it might have been just one end to re-level it after changing ride height. Not saying a watts isn't better, just that it isn't as big a difference as many people think. Differences in slalom performance left to right is likely the result of one or more of these: 1. Bad shock or mount on one side. 2. Preload on the anti-sway bars. 3. Cross weights off. I've done some pro racing, but it's been years, and I never made a living from it. In my best year I broke even, which is actually pretty good. My advice is to mod the car how you want and have fun with it. Justin

Indeed, the Star Spec isn't the "best" street tire, but it is the jack of all trades all around tire great tire. We'll see how far off I am at the first event on April 1st.

The stock PHB in the S197 is angled downward. The distance between the bolts on the chassis and axle side are 1.5" with the axle side being lower.

Steeda makes a competition PHB mount with adjustable chassis and axle side mounts.

My suspension was 100% bone stock last year so any suspension problems were there from the factory. Be it preload or cross weights. I doubt it was a bad shock being the low miles on the car.

[Whiskey11]

Ehhhh Watts up? I'm post whoring this because I'm super excited to have it finally!





It's a shame I wont have time (or all the stuff) to get this all installed before the race on Sunday so it's staying off. I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY (x10^10394813048913049813) want to get it installed. Having it sit here is painful.

Now I'm just waiting on my swaybars and I can begin the installation of all of my suspension bits!

That is of course:
Dunlop Direzza Z1 Sport Star Specs in 245/45/18 (installed)
Tokico D-Specs (installed)
Steeda Sport Springs
Steeda HD Mounts
Fays2 Watts Link
Strano Performance Parts 35mm 3 hole adjustable front swaybar
Strano Performance Parts 25mm 3 hole adjustable rear swaybar
UMI Competition Endlinks for front swaybar

[HBK_2007]

whore...

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by HBK_2007 whore...

I have every right to be post whoring it, I'm super excited to have it finally! No more wishing I had it. I HAVE IT and it's sitting here in my hands right now! The fact that it may or may not actually do anything substantial doesn't matter much, it's insanely elegant. It brings a bit of complexity and beauty to a very boring and simple Live Axle and that alone fascinates me!

[Whiskey11]

I figure I can go ahead and make this my official "build" thread for my car. Not that it's really all that impressive anyway but I'll turn this into "Vorshlag style build thread" but I don't plan on going to ESP with this car until the money overfloweth from the bank account... not happening any time soon!

Ok, so here we go, for those that have seen my other posts about my set up, this is nothing new, for those who haven't, here is how I'm rolling right now:

Tokico D-Spec shocks/struts set at (3 from hard in front, 5 from hard in rear)
Steeda Sport Springs (rates are 200lb/in front and 175lb/in rear)
Steeda HD Mounts (-1.7º camber, 0 toe, +7.5º caster)
Fays2 Watts Link (second from bottom hole for center pivot)
Strano 35mm front sway bar (set at hardest)
Strano 25mm rear sway bar (set in middle position)
UMI Competition Endlinks
Dunlop Direzza Z1 Sport Star Specs in 245/45/18 (31 psi front, 32 psi rear)

Photos in action:








Camber could be slightly more negative, maybe -2.0º but I can't get that with the Steeda HD plates and I'm not installing camber bolts. It will have to wait until I swap out the D-Specs for whatever I'm going to next.

There is some body roll there which isn't noticeable while driving but is quite apparent in the photos. This is about the only thing that may edge me to coilovers. Strano says it's a waste of money and that a good set of lowering springs and dampers will do just as well for a fraction of the cost. He does have 14 national championships (7 Solo, 6 Pro-Solo and an overall win) under his belt so he is obviously pretty damn smart when it comes to this type of thing but there is quite a bit of body roll there considering how stiff the sway bars are set to be and the increased rates in the springs over stock. Terry Fair of Vorshlag fame says stiffer springs are the way to go... the roads here in Nebraska are worse than some third world countries so I'm not sure I believe that it is going to be worth it. I refuse to trailer this vehicle as it is my ONLY car.

Event results: First event like this, 2 seconds behind leader of STX for the day in a BMW. Not surprised, the BMW was piloted by two guys who have been to nationals several times before and have a lot more time and money in their car and driving than me. I made several errors in my driving line that killed two seconds and my lack of familiarity and utter surprise at the new characteristics of the car didn't help either. This next event (this Sunday the 20th) I plan on pushing this car to either push hard or spin. I need to know the limits of this car!

Current plans: Relearn the car. One event isn't enough to get to know this "new" car. The suspension difference is night and day and a lot more confidence inspiring. I wish I was able to get this Saturday off for the Test'n'Tune but I can't so I'm missing out on all the great seat time. The Pro-Solo national tour is here memorial day weekend but I work the days for the Pro-Solo and the solo is only 3 runs... Right now my only expenses are going to be event attendance. The next modifications are going to be pricey regardless of what way I go so I would rather run this year as is without dicking with the set up too much and relearn the car then fiddle with it every event.

Next purchase: This I'm not sure on. I really think the FRPP bump stops for the rear would make it more tolerable for daily driving but I'm not sure if the bump stops are contributing enough spring rate in autocross to balance out the car. IMO Daily Driving comfort is 100x more important than autocross balance. The next MAJOR purchase is going to be TSW Nurburgrings in 18x9 (19 lbs each) in matte grey with 265/35/18 Hankook RS-3's or whatever the next generation of awesome ST tires is. Might be the Direzza ZII tires out currently in Japan.

Questions: Does anyone know if the GT500 lower control arms for the rear are the same OEM stamping as the GT control arms with stiffer bushings? If they are they would be legal for STX. I'm also checking about the front GT500 LCA's with stronger ball joints. I know the stamping is the same but again it has stiffer bushings and a stronger ball joint which would be ideal for this type of driving and wouldn't sacrifice ride quality too much.

Does anyone know about the UCA angle effecting the antisquat properties of the rear of these cars? I'm thinking it has some effect on it and since I can't change the angle of the LCA's and remain legal for ST (or any class except C Prepared) that may be the only way to get enough antisquat to get some forward bite. Right now if I rev to about 2500 and drop the clutch it will spin the tires which is pretty bleh.

Any free weight reduction? I'm already racing on 1/4 tank of fuel with no spare tire in the back... That's pretty significant there. I'm assuming there isn't any free weight reduction except putting my lard ass (280 lbs of FTL) on a severe diet.

[Conekiller]

Not sure if your car and mine are officially considered on the same model line by scca but if so the brembo equipped 2011+ come with the gt500 rear lcas from the factory so that might also be a loophole to use in the update/backdate rule(if scca says the gt500 is a separate model line). I know there's a physical difference in appearance between my roommates stock 07 rear lcas and the ones on my car, mine look like they have extra reinforcement along the whole lca. Bushing stiffness I couldn't answer though as I haven't had mine off to compare. I know I can launch with minimal clutch slip at 2500-3000 on asphalt and barely get any tire noise so might be some bushing differences between the two.

I've also been looking at the tsw wheels, only the interlagos instead of the nurbs. My only concern is the +32 offset the interlagos come in pushing the wheels 10mm further out per side than my factory wheels. I know it's not much but every bit counts when you have big wide cars to begin with, perhaps I need to research more in case the tsw nurbs have a better offset.