[Calogero6685]

So I've been contemplating coilovers. Anything from AM pretty much.

Why are these so expensive and will they be street friendly? (Of course coilovers arent going to be street friendly for comfort, but you get the idea.) Eibach Mustang Multi-Pro R2 Coil Over Kit (11-12 GT, V6) 35125.713 - Free Shipping!

What benefits do some of their kits have over others? I might dabble in AutoX, but let's not get into that 'You should take your stock car first to get to know it' conversation, please. Lol

I MAINLY want it so when I get my chrome F14s that it will sit and look amazing, and I still want something that's launch friendly, even of I have to buy extra suspension components to get rid of wheel spin/wheel hop.

What else needs to be purchased with coilovers so I don't destroy my tires?

[Calogero6685]

By the way, my factory car can handle .97 Gs...

Do you think with coilovers over 1.0 G is possible?

Not that I would push the limits... >.>

[ForestGRN_Ghost]

ive never driven a 12' mustang so im not going to pretend like i know how your car handles. but i will say that coilovers DRASTICALLY changed how my GT handled. and i love it.

as far as the G's your capable of pulling i cant imagine that coilovers would hurt it.

[Calogero6685]

Hmmm... Well can anyone explain the differences between AMs kits?

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Calogero6685 Hmmm... Well can anyone explain the differences between AMs kits?

Well, this is my opinion, but I wouldn't touch those kits with a 20ft pole if I want handling. The biggest differences are going to be in the spring rates and the valving of the dampers and number and range of adjustments. Eibach makes great springs but their damper technology is not going to compare to other companies producing coilovers. The valving in the shocks in combination with stiffer spring rates is what causes the rough ride but you CAN get stiff springs and a decent ride with the right dampers.

The biggest reason to avoid the kits on AM is being able to rebuilding and custom valvie the dampers which is questionable with the kits on AM and the amount of matching done between the damping forces for given adjustments. What I'm getting is that I personally don't trust them to give me two struts or shocks that are matched at each adjustment of the knob. That is why quality coilovers are pricey.

At a MINIMUM I would look into KW's line up, but AST (and MOTON now), the Griggs Koni setup, and Ohlin or Penske if you can swing it, are what you want to look at. All of those setups should have an option or are already valved as dual digressive dampers which give you much better street manners on stiff springs. All are rebuildable and can be custom valved to your liking.

If you are looking for a car as a DD and a light duty track toy, I would stick to a quality set of lowering springs and a good set of shocks (Koni Sports for adjustments) and put the rest of the money into tires (nice summer tires, winter tires, and if you can swing it, track tires). The benefits of coilovers won't be of much use to a primarily DD vehicle where corner weighting, ultra stiff springs, adjustable ride height, 3 way adjustments, lighter weight, and more compact springs mean very little over a good set of lowering springs and good dampers.

You also need to keep in mind that you can have 26k (griggs setup) into your suspension and pull worse G's because you have crappy tires. And going stiffer on everything doesn't make you pull more, and can often lead to less lateral g's even when setup correctly. The reason we get stiffer in corner carving is to change the rate at which our car responds to our inputs and is balanced. You NEED suspension movement for grip but it doesn't need to be what the factory says to make it (slow and vague).

Keep in mind that any drop larger than 1" front and 1.5" rear starts to develop some wonky suspension characteristics like bump steer, excessively small camber curve before going positive, loss of rear end traction, rear end lateral location problems and pinion angle problems. Suspensions are a system, and there is very little you can "make due" with just changing one part and calling it good. You really have to start addressing the suspension as a whole. For us S197 guys, a set of coilovers means a lot else should be changed at a minimum:

Rear Axle location (adjustable PHB or Watts, my preference to the watts)
Bump steer kit
Pinion angle (UCA and mount)
Front A-Arm angle (Taller Ball Joints or a K member that lowers the chassis side mounts)
Rear LCA angle (relocation brackets)
Strut mount failure (Caster/Camber plates with appropriate spring seat for your coilover springs)

All of that in addition to a set of sway bars to balance out the spring rate changes (front rates are almost always much quicker to get much stiffer than the rears) and tires to put it all down. I would say you could get away without the relocation brackets but with the drops on most coilover kits being more than most lowering springs, they are a must for any rear end traction.

[ForestGRN_Ghost]

Originally Posted by Whiskey11 Well, this is my opinion, but I wouldn't touch those kits with a 20ft pole if I want handling. The biggest differences are going to be in the spring rates and the valving of the dampers and number and range of adjustments. Eibach makes great springs but their damper technology is not going to compare to other companies producing coilovers. The valving in the shocks in combination with stiffer spring rates is what causes the rough ride but you CAN get stiff springs and a decent ride with the right dampers. .

+1
i would stay away from the kit that you linked.
it said 225lb + 150lb helper spring for the front and a 250lb + 150lb helper for the rear.

i understand some people are different but unless i had a mid/rear engine car. i will ALWAYS have the stiffer springs up front. ( unless building a drift car)

just my opinion though.

MM, griggs, kw they all build good stuff. take a look at their sites and see what you think. get back at us with questions if you have any.

[Calogero6685]

That is just way too much for me, Whiskey. Lol

Then again, I'm trying to read it after a pretty intense night. Lol

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Calogero6685 That is just way too much for me, Whiskey. Lol Then again, I'm trying to read it after a pretty intense night. Lol

I know, TL;DR... it doesn't help I typed that up on my cell phone either so I'm sure some of it is a bit wonky

SO, ask yourself: Do I NEED control over bump and rebound rates on the dampers? Do I NEED ride height adjustable dampers? Do I NEED lighter weight springs and damper bodies? Do I NEED the super stiff springs and dozens of spring options?

Basically: If you NEED the adjustments that coilovers provide, then KW, AST, Moton, Ohlin, the Griggs racing Koni's, or Penske and not a single other one. Cheap coilovers ride rough, for a DD and usually are NOT rebuildable or revalvable so you take the $2000 you spent on a set of Eibachs or H&R's and throw it away when they go bad in 50k miles (or whatever). With a set of the ones mentioned above, when they go bad, you can send them in and for a couple hundred bucks (I think AST's are like $200 for a full 4 corner rebuild and include custom valving options) and you are good for another 50k.

If you DONT need all the adjustments, stick to a set of quality lowering springs, adjustable shocks/struts (Koni Sports!), camber plates, and the necessary geometry fixes and move along. Of the good coilovers above, only the Griggs racing Koni's are full coilovers at all 4 corners, the rest have adjustable spring perches on the rear for coilover springs but are mounted in the stock position meaning stiffer springs for a given wheel rate (and consequently stiffer ride). There is a lot of physics and geometry involved in calculating the wheel rate (what we actually care about rather than spring rate).

Other than that, I wouldn't touch those kits with a 20ft pole if I want performance and best value for the money. Higher end coilovers (if you do indeed need/want them) are more expensive initially but cheaper in the long run.

[Calogero6685]

Okay...

So instead of spending $4k+, give me something around $2,250-$2,500 that will get me lower with some better handling.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Calogero6685 Okay... So instead of spending $4k+, give me something around $2,250-$2,500 that will get ounts Fays2 Watts linkme lower with some better handling.

What are your goals? Is this an autocross car or do you just want better handling? I can get you set up for STX/ESP and be somewhat competitive (you'd need tires ).

For $2,623.10 + shipping from Strano Parts, you can get:
1. Koni Sport Shocks
2. Steeda Sport Springs
3. Steeda HD mounts
4. Steeda Competition UCA and mount (poly bushings)
5. FAYS2 Watts link
6. Strano front and rear sway bars

That should pretty much take care of all the handling woes and put you in STX/ESP, but it wouldn't do you much for drag launches (lack of LCA relocation brackets which are not legal in any SCCA class except C-Prepared for Mustangs).

If you don't want to spend that much, replaces the Watts link with an adjustable PHB.

[Calogero6685]

Ugh. So much confusion.

Don't I need caster camber plates?

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Calogero6685 Ugh. So much confusion. Don't I need caster camber plates?

Steeda HD mounts have +/- 1º of camber adjustment and our cars don't need anymore caster at +7.5º The HD mounts are softer riding than the pillowball bearing equipped camber plates and provide enough camber adjustment to either dial out the added negative camber (crazy idea, -1.5º of camber isn't bad ) or dial in a little more, potentially if you wish.

[JunctionBoyz]

You should definitely post some pictures once you get it all taken care of! I'd love to check it out.

[Calogero6685]

After realizing that I have no idea what the fuck the suspension does, I'm going to focus more on short throw/full exhaust, and then order some suspension once I figure out what all this Chinese talk is that you're talking about.

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by Calogero6685 After realizing that I have no idea what the fuck the suspension does, I'm going to focus more on short throw/full exhaust, and then order some suspension once I figure out what all this Chinese talk is that you're talking about.

LOL what's confusing about it? I can try and explain in more clear terms.

[Bullitt5566]

Sound's like you're new to autocross so why not just keep the car stock. Compete in F Stock for a while to see if you like it. Buy a set of stickies for your stock rims if you do like it. You'll find that all of the lowering and suspension work will not net you the 3 second advantage of sticky race tires will. In fact lowering will most likely hurt handling.

[EscortSportage]

wow, yes go coilovers..hand down and like whiskey said stiffer isnt always better

u will skid off the the road/track if u pull .97gs now throw wider/sticker tires on it and u can prolly pull off 1g or close to it

grip/traction is the name of the game

[EscortSportage]

id say coilovers/panhard bar/CC plates/ tires for starters and maybe a softer front swaybar

[Whiskey11]

Originally Posted by EscortSportage id say coilovers/panhard bar/CC plates/ tires for starters and maybe a softer front swaybar

FWIW on the stock all seasons s197s already pull close to .95g on a skid pad. Sam Strano in his ESP 5.0 peaked at over 1.2g on a few of his runs with 315 wide A6s.

I'm not sure I would go to a softer front swaybar (good luck finding one that isn't the V6 bar) unless he is running significantly stiffer front springs. If anything I would go with the soft spring/big bar over the other way if daily driving.

[EscortSportage]

Cant wait to run 315s.