[67ATX]

I found a pair of 87 E7TE heads off of a ford truck. Will these work with my 1976 302 block? If so, are they better than regular 302 heads from the 71-77 yr range? Because i can get those too.

Thanks,
Jordan

[Dap1991]

If those will work on your block, you mine as well try and get some gt40's from an explorer, they are pretty cheap and better the the e7's. From what everyone says in the 5.0 section I would try and find something else.

[67ATX]

Im just picking from a pile, they're $50 a piece. I just wanna pick the best out of the pile. Gt40Ps are 6X as expensive, I checked.

[Dap1991]

oh alright, well hopefully some one comes in with more experience then i have to help you haha

[Gregski]

Don't mean to hijack your thread, but I will be doing something very similar with my 289, so maybe we can help each other out. Keep in mind your block is a flat tapit cam design and the heads you are considering are from a roller cam block. I believe Ford switched the 302 in 1985 or there abouts. So will the heads work, I believe so, can you just bolt them on, I don't think so. That's where the both of use need some clerification.

I think we may need to gut the heads, replace the new rockers, and springs with the old style ones. Keep the valve guides, the guide seals, and the valves themselves. I am not sure which push rods to use, do we use the old ones or the new ones or neither do to length or are they the same length. What bolts do we use to bolt the heads down with? Does it matter the physical head profiles seem identical.

So without saying which ones are better I will give you some spec on the heads, basically there aint much difference, the stock Factory 302 heads are not much to write home about (225 hp at 4,200 rpm and 300 lb-ft of torque at 3,000). Keep in mind the combustion chamber capacity is like plus/minus 5 depending on what spec charts / tables you look at.

71-76 302 Head Specs
Combustion Chamber - 58.2
Intake - 1.78
Exhaust - 1.45


87-93 Head Specs
Combustion Chamber - 62
Intake - 1.78
Exhaust - 1.46


97-98 GT-40P Explorer Head Specs
Combustion Chamber - 58-60 cc
Intake - 1.84
Exhaust - 1.46


In my opinion if you are after stock heads the ones to get would be the high compression 63-67 289 ones, LOL (not listed above) and no these are not even the Hi-Po ones.

Keep in mind it's not about which stock heads are better than the others, there is more than one way to skin a cat. You could take the E7TE heads and port and polish them, plus the intake and exhaust manifolds and get some good flow that way. Just an idea, research porting and polishing, it may be a low cost alternative to aftermarket heads.

[Countryboy_99]

GT40P's may be more expensive, but regular GT40's aren't (generally) and they'll offer better performance than both the old heads and the E7's, but not the P's. And the regular 40's are more common to boot.

[67ATX]

It sounds like the E7TEs aren't worth the trouble, I'll most likely swap the 78 351Ws for some 73-76 302 heads since they'll have the hardened valve seats. One day when I buy a different daily driver, I'll make this thing into a beast and port it out... unless they need to be ported out

I'll see what else Mike has and post an update on the *67 302 swap* thread tomorrow

[67ATX]

Originally Posted by Gregski Don't mean to hijack your thread, but I will be doing something very similar with my 289, so maybe we can help each other out. Keep in mind your block is a flat tapit cam design and the heads you are considering are from a roller cam block. I believe Ford switched the 302 in 1985 or there abouts. So will the heads work, I believe so, can you just bolt them on, I don't think so. That's where the both of use need some clerification. I think we may need to gut the heads, replace the new rockers, and springs with the old style ones. Keep the valve guides, the guide seals, and the valves themselves. I am not sure which push rods to use, do we use the old ones or the new ones or neither do to length or are they the same length. What bolts do we use to bolt the heads down with? Does it matter the physical head profiles seem identical. So without saying which ones are better I will give you some spec on the heads, basically there aint much difference, the stock Factory 302 heads are not much to write home about (225 hp at 4,200 rpm and 300 lb-ft of torque at 3,000). Keep in mind the combustion chamber capacity is like plus/minus 5 depending on what spec charts / tables you look at. 71-76 302 Head Specs Combustion Chamber - 58.2 Intake - 1.78 Exhaust - 1.45 87-93 Head Specs Combustion Chamber - 62 Intake - 1.78 Exhaust - 1.46 97-98 GT-40P Explorer Head Specs Combustion Chamber - 58-60 cc Intake - 1.84 Exhaust - 1.46 In my opinion if you are after stock heads the ones to get would be the high compression 63-67 289 ones, LOL (not listed above) and no these are not even the Hi-Po ones. Keep in mind it's not about which stock heads are better than the others, there is more than one way to skin a cat. You could take the E7TE heads and port and polish them, plus the intake and exhaust manifolds and get some good flow that way. Just an idea, research porting and polishing, it may be a low cost alternative to aftermarket heads.

Thanks for the specs Gregski

[MustangOne]

The heads do not care if the the cam is a roller.

The newer heads also have harden seats in them, A big plus.

The newer roller heads have better spring in them.

The newer heads are less likely to need to be rebuilt.

[67ATX]

Today I swapped the 78 351s for some 69 302s. They're C9OEs. Atleast his way i can use regular 302 head bolts and port them one day when I wanna beef it up. Plus they have adjustable rockers

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by 67ATX Today I swapped the 78 351s for some 69 302s. They're C9OEs. Atleast his way i can use regular 302 head bolts and port them one day when I wanna beef it up. Plus they have adjustable rockers

Good good, here's my attempt to sound half way intelligent (hopefully I don't fall on my face) do those have the hardened valve seats for unleaded gasoline, or will you have to get them machined? Say what?

Do I really need to have hardened seats...

[67ATX]

Originally Posted by Gregski Good good, here's my attempt to sound half way intelligent (hopefully I don't fall on my face) do those have the hardened valve seats for unleaded gasoline, or will you have to get them machined? Say what? Do I really need to have hardened seats...

Hardened seats started in 1973 I believe. They're gonna need *the works* but they'll be good heads.

[69fastback]

Originally Posted by MustangOne The heads do not care if the the cam is a roller. The newer heads also have harden seats in them, A big plus. The newer roller heads have better spring in them. The newer heads are less likely to need to be rebuilt.

This


E7s are not good heads, but they will just bolt on.


As far as the mentioning of pushrods, there is no way to answer that. The worst mistake you can make is to just slap some pushrods in it. Any time you change heads, or valvetrain components, it is necessary to measure for your pushrod length. Valvetrain geometry is crucial for making power, and engine life. Always always always measure. So, you can not reuse your pushrods, when you change the heads.

[67ATX]

Does anyone know the pushrod length for a C9OE? I was told it should be the same as the 75 351W heads that came one it, assuming I'm still going to use a 351 cam/firing order

[Countryboy_99]

Like 69FB said, you should just measure that way you know for certain the proper pushrod sizes.

[Gregski]

Call Summit talk to their tech support, whacha got to loose.

[Countryboy_99]

+1

[69fastback]

Originally Posted by 67ATX Does anyone know the pushrod length for a C9OE? I was told it should be the same as the 75 351W heads that came one it, assuming I'm still going to use a 351 cam/firing order

Originally Posted by Gregski Call Summit talk to their tech support, whacha got to loose.

If you want your valvetrain to survive, you can not do that. You have to measure it. You can have 3 sets of C90E heads, and they can use 3 different sets of pushrods, because there can be variances in the heads. A 43 year old head has likely been milled at some point in it's life, to true the surface, and it will affect pushrod length. You also need to measure both the intake, and exhaust, because they can be different. My engine uses 2 different length pushrods. Anyone who tells you that you need a certain length pushrod, without measuring it on your engine, doesn't know what they're talking about.

[69fastback]

Double post

[69fastback]

Straight from comp cams website.

COMP Cams® Pushrod Tech - CPG Nation Forum

http://www.compcams.com/Products/CC-'Pushrods'-0.aspx

COMP Cams® Pushrod Tech As cam profiles continue to get more aggressive and valve springs pressure increase, the importance of pushrod knowledge has never been more critical. Here are some answers to the most common questions that you might have for COMP Cams® tech support about pushrods. Pushrod Length & Rocker Arm Geometry A large number of variables are involved in determining the correct length pushrod for your application. Pushrod length is affected by any of the following: • Block deck height • Head deck height • Head stud boss height • Rocker arm brand/design • Cam base circle size • Lifter design/brand/pushrod seat height • Valve stem length Don’t assume anything when determining the right pushrod for your new engine. A pushrod that fits one engine may not necessarily work in another. Any number of items can be different on your engine, requiring you to use a different pushrod length. Following the steps below will streamline the pushrod selection process, ensuring that you get the right parts the first time. 1. Buy a checking pushrod. Do not buy pushrods when you buy the cam, lifters and other valve train components. As much as we would like to sell you pushrods at this time, nobody can predict ahead of time what length a given engine needs, unless it is bone stock. Instead, invest in a checking pushrod at this time. They are available in two different designs, with the more expensive of the two being easier to measure once you have it adjusted to the proper length for your valve train. Neither is particularly expensive if you consider time lost and freight costs when returning pushrods. Other companies offer their own versions of pushrod length checking devices, funny little plastic things with complicated instructions to calculate the length. The main disadvantage with these is that you have to order the pushrods and receive them before you know if your calculations are correct. With a checking pushrod, you can actually rotate the motor over and check the rocker arm/valve tip relationship as you adjust the pushrod length. When you get the correct geometry, it is a simple matter then to measure the length and place an order. COMP Cams® carries a large number of various length and diameter pushrods so you get the correct length the first time. 2. Determine correct valve train geometry. What is the correct length pushrod for your application? The one that produces correct valve train geometry. What is correct valve train geometry? When the rocker arm roller tip rolls from the intake side of the valve tip, across the center of the tip (at approximately mid-lift), to the exhaust side of the valve tip (at full lift) and back. See Diagram A. 3. Measure the resulting pushrod. Measuring the length of a pushrod is a simple process. The most important thing to remember is that different manufacturers measure pushrods differently. Not all pushrods of a stated length will measure exactly the same. The three most common pushrod measurements are shown in Diagram B. Theoretical Length: This assumes that the pushrod has no oil hole in the end of it. Therefore, the radius at either end is complete, which lengthens the pushrod approximately .017" in the case of a 5/16" pushrod with .100" diameter oil holes, minimally chamfered. Actual Length: This is what you would measure if you had a set of calipers large enough to measure over the oil holes at each end of the pushrod. This is the measurement that most people can relate to. Unfortunately, this measurement is affected not only by the diameter of the oil holes but also by the entrance chamfer for each oil hole. Gauge Length: Although the most difficult to measure (it requires a special length checking gauge), this measurement is the most reliable. This is because the oil holes and their chamfers are eliminated from the measurement. The only problem is that not all companies use the same gauge diameter. COMP Cams® uses a .140" gauge diameter. All Magnum and Hi-Tech™ Pushrods listed in this catalog are measured using this technique. See Diagram B on the following page. 4. Simple measurement techniques. We realize that most people don’t have access to the special gauge required for these measurements or even a dial caliper large enough for most pushrods. We’ve developed two techniques to help you determine exact pushrod length so that the perfect valve train geometry is achieved in your engine. Pushrod Measurement Techniques Technique #1 This technique requires the use of a COMP Cams® Hi-Tech™ Pushrod Length Checker. These are marked with a standard length stamped in them. This number represents the gauge length of the part (.140" gauge diameter) with the two halves screwed completely together. Extending the pushrod one rotation lengthens the gauge length .050". For example, a pushrod stamped 7.800 and screwed apart one rotation would be 7.800" + .050" = 7.850" gauge length. Therefore you would order the part number from the catalog that matches this gauge length, since gauge length is how they are listed. Technique #2 This technique requires one of our Magnum Pushrod Length Checkers. Once fixed, you don’t need to have an expensive gauge or a pair of calipers to measure it. You just need a pushrod of a known length to compare it to (a standard). Then use a pair of common 6" calipers to measure the difference between the standard and yours. Here are a few final hints about pushrods in general. It is always a good idea to buy a few spares when purchasing a set of custom length pushrods, and stick them in your toolbox. If one ever fails at the track and you need a replacement, it would be nearly impossible to borrow one from a fellow racer. Another hint involves cup end pushrods. Measuring them for length is especially difficult, no matter which technique above you choose to use. The size and shape of the cup end varies greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer, so measuring from the ball end to the cup end over the cup surface is a dangerous practice. The best strategy is to drop a 5/16" diameter steel ball into the cup end, and do all measuring over this ball, subtracting the 5/16" diameter (.3125") to figure the length. For help selecting the correct series pushrod for your application call CAM HELP® at 1-800-999-0853 of check out the COMP Cams® website. Attached Thumbnails: *