[Arsenal]

Suspect pleads not guilty in deadly Ariz. shooting - Yahoo! News

He's obviously fucking guilty and needs a few bullets through his head. This is what is wrong with our legal system.

[Ace417]

juse means he can get a plea bargin instead of immediately going to jail

[Arsenal]

[supermachone]

i think if you purposely murder, sane or not, you should get the death penalty

no point in locking so many people up for the rest of their lives, just so tax payers can keep them alive for another 60 years or whatever, kill the bastards

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by Arsenal Suspect pleads not guilty in deadly Ariz. shooting - Yahoo! News He's obviously fucking guilty and needs a few bullets through his head. This is what is wrong with our legal system.

Do me a favor...instead of saying he's "obviously guilty", say "he obviously did it."

I know this is nit-picky lawyer bs, so just chalk it up to my occasional attempts to educate you guys. Being "guilty" gets you in jail. Everyone in prison (innocent and wrongfully accused included) is "guilty". You are only guilty of a crime after a court has found you guilty...even though the whole world knows you did it.

Same thing for "Not Guilty". It it just a term of art for people that haven't been found guilty by a court yet. Being "Not Guilty" is NOT the same thing as being innocent. Criminal courts do not care about finding out if you are innocent, just about whether the state can carry their burden to change you from presumed not guilty, to guilty. If they can't, then you are "not guilty".

For example, today on your way to work you WILL break a law. I promise. Let's say it is speeding. Once you get there, you know you sped, the people around you know you sped, but you are "not guilty" because a court hasn't found you "guilty".

Like I said, I know this is nit-picky lawyer bs...but I want to help educate you guys about our legal system when possible because so many of us have been screwed simply because of our ignorance of the justice system.

/Public Service Announcement

However, if they can prove him "guilty"...I hope they dust off the electric chair, put it in a gas chamber, and zap his ass while being gassed...

[XectriK]

Originally Posted by namelessliar do me a favor...instead of saying he's "obviously guilty", say "he obviously did it." i know this is nit-picky lawyer bs, so just chalk it up to my occasional attempts to educate you guys. Being "guilty" gets you in jail. Everyone in prison (innocent and wrongfully accused included) is "guilty". You are only guilty of a crime after a court has found you guilty...even though the whole world knows you did it. Same thing for "not guilty". It it just a term of art for people that haven't been found guilty by a court yet. Being "not guilty" is not the same thing as being innocent. Criminal courts do not care about finding out if you are innocent, just about whether the state can carry their burden to change you from presumed not guilty, to guilty. If they can't, then you are "not guilty". For example, today on your way to work you will break a law. I promise. Let's say it is speeding. Once you get there, you know you sped, the people around you know you sped, but you are "not guilty" because a court hasn't found you "guilty". Like i said, i know this is nit-picky lawyer bs...but i want to help educate you guys about our legal system when possible because so many of us have been screwed simply because of our ignorance of the justice system. /public service announcement

+1

however, if they can prove him "guilty"...i hope they dust off the electric chair, put it in a gas chamber, and zap his ass while being gassed...

+FUCKING 1 Million!

[03SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by NamelessLiar Do me a favor...instead of saying he's "obviously guilty", say "he obviously did it." I know this is nit-picky lawyer bs, so just chalk it up to my occasional attempts to educate you guys. Being "guilty" gets you in jail. Everyone in prison (innocent and wrongfully accused included) is "guilty". You are only guilty of a crime after a court has found you guilty...even though the whole world knows you did it. Same thing for "Not Guilty". It it just a term of art for people that haven't been found guilty by a court yet. Being "Not Guilty" is NOT the same thing as being innocent. Criminal courts do not care about finding out if you are innocent, just about whether the state can carry their burden to change you from presumed not guilty, to guilty. If they can't, then you are "not guilty". For example, today on your way to work you WILL break a law. I promise. Let's say it is speeding. Once you get there, you know you sped, the people around you know you sped, but you are "not guilty" because a court hasn't found you "guilty". Like I said, I know this is nit-picky lawyer bs...but I want to help educate you guys about our legal system when possible because so many of us have been screwed simply because of our ignorance of the justice system. /Public Service Announcement However, if they can prove him "guilty"...I hope they dust off the electric chair, put it in a gas chamber, and zap his ass while being gassed...

While what you say is technically true, I disagree (but this is just my opinion). I was going 5 over part of the way to work (until I got behind a car going 5 under ). From my perspective, I would consider myself guilty of speeding. From the state's perspective, I'm not guilty b/c there's no proof.

I'm going to call someone guilty, not guilty, innocent, etc. based on MY perspective b/c I'm the one making that decision. That decision is basically my opinion (this is the case from the OP in this situation). The state has another perspective. They have more burden of proof and it's harder. The reason for this is because my decision is just my opinion and carries no weight. The state's decision actually has weight and matters.

What I'm saying is it's all about perspective. The OP can call him guilty b/c in his mind he has committed the crime and is guilty. All he's doing is expressing his decision based on the facts presented to him. Just like I would call myself guilty for speeding today, I call him guilty for the shootings.

Again, this is just my opinion and it accounts for nothing to the state.

[97S281]

Yeah, I saw that this morning on the news and was like WHAAAAAAT?

unfu@#ingbelievable.

[BakerFX4]

good response PwrRngr!!!

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by NamelessLiar Do me a favor...instead of saying he's "obviously guilty", say "he obviously did it." I know this is nit-picky lawyer bs, so just chalk it up to my occasional attempts to educate you guys. Being "guilty" gets you in jail. Everyone in prison (innocent and wrongfully accused included) is "guilty". You are only guilty of a crime after a court has found you guilty...even though the whole world knows you did it. Same thing for "Not Guilty". It it just a term of art for people that haven't been found guilty by a court yet. Being "Not Guilty" is NOT the same thing as being innocent. Criminal courts do not care about finding out if you are innocent, just about whether the state can carry their burden to change you from presumed not guilty, to guilty. If they can't, then you are "not guilty". For example, today on your way to work you WILL break a law. I promise. Let's say it is speeding. Once you get there, you know you sped, the people around you know you sped, but you are "not guilty" because a court hasn't found you "guilty". Like I said, I know this is nit-picky lawyer bs...but I want to help educate you guys about our legal system when possible because so many of us have been screwed simply because of our ignorance of the justice system. /Public Service Announcement However, if they can prove him "guilty"...I hope they dust off the electric chair, put it in a gas chamber, and zap his ass while being gassed...

They can put him in prison along with all the other "innocent" people I've met there over the years.

Unfortunately we've never had an electric chair in Az. Our death house has a gas chamber (not used anymore) and a lethal injection room. Before we had a death house we used to just hang them in the middle of the yard. Think maybe we can hang him in the gas chamber? Actually I hope they give him life and then put him on a General Population yard. His "death sentence" for killing a 9 year old child would happen within a few chow turn outs.

[Whiskey11]

Personally, I think death by torture, hanging, burning at the stake, would be more suitable for this freak. Unfortunately, I get this twinge that is telling me that this case is going to be one where he goes off to a mental hospital and not to his death...

[supermachone]

no child should be murdered, its flat out disgusting, and having a son of my own makes me further realize that fuckin pukes like this guy need killed, period

I can't stand how pussy-fied this nation has become, the death penalty needs to be in effect in every state, i dont care how big of a bitch with morals you are, theres a time when morals need to be set aside when the freedom of life has been taken wrongfully

[06RedfireGT]

It's a shame that he wasn't killed that day by the cops or someone else.

[Colt.45]

Originally Posted by metallicat They can put him in prison along with all the other "innocent" people I've met there over the years. Unfortunately we've never had an electric chair in Az. Our death house has a gas chamber (not used anymore) and a lethal injection room. Before we had a death house we used to just hang them in the middle of the yard. Think maybe we can hang him in the gas chamber? Actually I hope they give him life and then put him on a General Population yard. His "death sentence" for killing a 9 year old child would happen within a few chow turn outs.

Only problem with that, is some con may have to pay the price for doing the state's job.

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by 03SonicBoom While what you say is technically true, I disagree (but this is just my opinion). I was going 5 over part of the way to work (until I got behind a car going 5 under ). From my perspective, I would consider myself guilty of speeding. From the state's perspective, I'm not guilty b/c there's no proof. I'm going to call someone guilty, not guilty, innocent, etc. based on MY perspective b/c I'm the one making that decision. That decision is basically my opinion (this is the case from the OP in this situation). The state has another perspective. They have more burden of proof and it's harder. The reason for this is because my decision is just my opinion and carries no weight. The state's decision actually has weight and matters. What I'm saying is it's all about perspective. The OP can call him guilty b/c in his mind he has committed the crime and is guilty. All he's doing is expressing his decision based on the facts presented to him. Just like I would call myself guilty for speeding today, I call him guilty for the shootings. Again, this is just my opinion and it accounts for nothing to the state.

I know that people are going to do what they want to do and apply whatever meaning to whatever words that they want, but as "that guy" around here, I do my part to show you what these technical legal terms mean. What you choose to do with that information, and whether you choose to ignore it and apply your own definition to them, is up to you.

And as far as facts presented to anyone, all we have is what the media has reported and that isn't always necessarily facts. As much of a monster as this guy is, he deserves his day in court, just like any one of us would, so that justice can be done.

[Nameless]

As much as I love Arsenal (homo), I respectfully disagree that this is a problem with our legal system for this guy to be able to plead guilty. It is the system that our forefathers fought for us to have and many great men and women have fought to protect, including myself and many other forum members. It comes with many protections in an effort to keep innocent people from going to jail. We subscribe to the "let 10 guilty men go free rather than send 1 innocent man to jail" mentality.

I know many people will disagree with me here and say that they'd rather just shoot him themselves or wish that a guard would just shoot him now and save the expense of a trial, but trust me, that isn't a system that you would want. Appreciate your freedoms because there are millions on this rock that would kill for it...

[skuzzy]

nameless i think you should correct us all the time so we can learn from it

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by skuzzy nameless i think you should correct us all the time so we can learn from it

Most people go to law school, buy a BMW/Benz, and then forget their roots and who their friends were before they were anything. I know where my roots are and I've been a mustang guy, and a member of this forum, since before deciding to become a lawyer and I want to help my brethren as much as possible...or at least as much as they will let me help.

reps to you sir.

[XectriK]

I think you should buy me a BMW/Benz mr. fancy lawyer man since you clearly don't want it

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by skuzzy nameless i think you should correct us all the time so we can learn from it

There's a difference between correcting and educating. I think Nameless educates.