[Silver35th]

Originally Posted by Cathedral Leisure. Quantum physics has always fascinated me. I'm a nerd and I read shit like that for fun. I went to school for mech. engineering, though. I actually have a 3-in thick Calculus book I flip through when I'm bored.

You seem like me, except more hardcore! lol I'm not much on the quantum stuff, just the idea of it makes me think. I like the electricity and magnetism physics even though the class was a royal biotch. lol Anything really to do with physics makes me wonder so much I get a headache.

[sikedsyko]

Photons do have a mass of <1×10−18 eV/c2

[03SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by Cathedral That's a way of quantifying gravity, but it doesn't explain what gravity actually is. Why would something with a larger mass attract something with a smaller mass?

Gravity is the attractive force between objects. You say why would something w/ a larger mass attract something w/ a smaller mass. That's not the WHOLE truth to that story. The smaller mass is also attracting something with a larger mass. They are both attracting each other. Molecules attract and gravity is basically a result of that attractive force.

[Cathedral]

Originally Posted by 03SonicBoom Gravity is the attractive force between objects. You say why would something w/ a larger mass attract something w/ a smaller mass. That's not the WHOLE truth to that story. The smaller mass is also attracting something with a larger mass. They are both attracting each other. Molecules attract and gravity is basically a result of that attractive force.

It was a rhetorical question. But you're still playing in to the same hand. So, to use your statement, why, exactly, do molecules attract? Is it just "in their nature?" Or is there another force acting on them? The whole point is that we don't know. Modern theories state that IF gravity is a result of x+x formula and IF x+x=y+y, THEN that explains why black holes are black and gravity lenses light around dense objects. But there is no BECAUSE gravity is a result of x+x; so x+x=y+y is based on a THEORY.

I mean, if we knew, then why would we be searching so desperately for the Higgs Boson? We need that little fucker to explain--and solidify--so many current models. Bastard has been elusive, hasn't it? Because we don't actually know if it exists.

[03SonicBoom]

Originally Posted by Cathedral It was a rhetorical question. But you're still playing in to the same hand. So, to use your statement, why, exactly, do molecules attract? Is it just "in their nature?" Or is there another force acting on them?

The statement you made wasn't why gravity acts the way it does, it was what exactly is gravity. That was answered in my statement. Now WHY it acts the way it does is a completely different issue.

But you can play that game on anything you want. How does electricity work? Moving electrons. But why do they move? Is it just in their nature? You'll get to electrical theory.

How does the basics of a Mustang engine work? It relies on the expansion of the gas when it's burned. But why does gas expand when it's burned? You're going to get down to thermodynamics and the first law, which is a theory.

See what I mean. You can always ask why until you reach the point where you are going back to the fact that EVERYTHING we work from is a THEORY. That's the thing about science. Everything is based off a theory and everyone knows that a theory is just that, a theory.

There's not a ton of people searching for WHAT makes something work (when you asked what exactly is gravity) but there are MANY MANY people searching for WHY something works a certain way (the question of why gravity acts the way it does).

[atlacatl213]

Originally Posted by prowatt! I can see light, yet it has no mass. I can't think of anything else that I can see that has no mass.

God...

Dom Howard - Ba Dum Tssshhh - YouTube

Dom Howard - Ba Dum Tssshhh - YouTube

But seriously, it is things like this that really baffles a person as to what are the forces at work here. It's hard enough to define gravity in layman terms, let alone have to explain how light has no mass, the mind/body problem, and other issues in which there doesn't seem to be a prevailing answer for such as Nature vs. Nurture debate.

As fascinating as the issues of the cosmos/natural elements are, I don't find them as fascinating as the human mind.

[Notcho]

The thing we call "reality" (the universe included) is just a figment of my imagination.


Someday I expect to wake up in a rubber room wearing a straight jacket.

[atlacatl213]

Originally Posted by Notcho The thing we call "reality" (the universe included) is just a figment of my imagination. Someday I expect to wake up in a rubber room wearing a straight jacket.

I'm nerdy enough to know that based on that statement, your position is that of solipsism.

I'm more of a existential nihilist.

[Notcho]

Originally Posted by atlacatl213 I'm nerdy enough to know that based on that statement, your position is that of solipsism. I'm more of a existential nihilist.

You're not a nerd.. a nerd would detect that I was being purely sarcastic..

People who truly believe in subjective reality are just.. lazy.

Wake up, eat, go to work, go home, shit, eat, sleep, repeat. Life has no meaning or purpose. I suppose that makes me a nihilist as well.

[Cathedral]

Originally Posted by 03SonicBoom The statement you made wasn't why gravity acts the way it does, it was what exactly is gravity. That was answered in my statement. Now WHY it acts the way it does is a completely different issue. But you can play that game on anything you want. How does electricity work? Moving electrons. But why do they move? Is it just in their nature? You'll get to electrical theory. How does the basics of a Mustang engine work? It relies on the expansion of the gas when it's burned. But why does gas expand when it's burned? You're going to get down to thermodynamics and the first law, which is a theory. See what I mean. You can always ask why until you reach the point where you are going back to the fact that EVERYTHING we work from is a THEORY. That's the thing about science. Everything is based off a theory and everyone knows that a theory is just that, a theory. There's not a ton of people searching for WHAT makes something work (when you asked what exactly is gravity) but there are MANY MANY people searching for WHY something works a certain way (the question of why gravity acts the way it does).

I understand what you're saying. I apologize for not having stated things clearly. The underlying point of all my comments is just that-it's all theory, and as such, the OP's question of why light has no mass yet can be acted on by gravity is: who knows, because light having no mass is just a theory. Just like how we think gravity is caused by the forces of interacting gravitons. A theory. Yes, we can measure gravity using what we know, but technically we don't actually know what we are measuring.

On another note, glad to see there are so many nerds on this board.

[deedub97GT]

who the hell gets drunk and talks about physics???? thats all i want to know.

[atlacatl213]

Originally Posted by Notcho You're not a nerd.. a nerd would detect that I was being purely sarcastic.. People who truly believe in subjective reality are just.. lazy. Wake up, eat, go to work, go home, shit, eat, sleep, repeat. Life has no meaning or purpose. I suppose that makes me a nihilist as well.

I'm sorry, my sarcasm detector seems to be broken

It's hard to believe in a purely objective reality when breakthroughs in scientific discovery seems to change what we believe about the universe that surrounds us. Yea I can understand that there is a moderate position in which one does not undeniably accept any new theory or data without extensive research. I guess it is just in my nature, as a scientist, to be skeptical of anything that comes my way.

The awesome thing about being an existential nihilist though is that I give meaning to my own life, thus finding fulfillment in it. I love science, it's truly awesome, but I also love findings that relate to my day to day experiences moreso than the cosmos that have an indirect and/or minute effect to my being.

Originally Posted by deedub97GT who the hell gets drunk and talks about physics???? thats all i want to know.

I'm not smart enough to talk about physics, but if I were, I would probably be guilty of this

[carney]

I get drunk and talk about biology and chem

yes i know im a nerd

[chocolate]

Holly hell my head hurts and I don't know any of the answers and now i wanna know.

Damn you guys for making me think about physics AGAIN.

[Silver35th]

Just to make another headache arise, thinking that things are all related in the "mesh" of space makes my head want to explode. Lets say you jump as high as you can and come back down to the ground. You think the "ground" is solid and didn't move right? Wrong. The Earth did move, just so freakin small of a distance that it doesn't matter. Do these minute changes in Earth's path change something in Earth's orbit 5 million years from now? 500 million? Everything can change with the most insignificant of events. Things may seem small on our scale, but do they really matter in the big picture?

[chocolate]

Originally Posted by baleger92 Just to make another headache arise, thinking that things are all related in the "mesh" of space makes my head want to explode. Lets say you jump as high as you can and come back down to the ground. You think the "ground" is solid and didn't move right? Wrong. The Earth did move, just so freakin small of a distance that it doesn't matter. Do these minute changes in Earth's path change something in Earth's orbit 5 million years from now? 500 million? Everything can change with the most insignificant of events. Things may seem small on our scale, but do they really matter in the big picture?

And to make it worse. If you poor a cup of water in the pacific ocean, Does it rase the water level on the other side of the world. Yes it does but agian its ever so slightly its probobly not messurable by us right now.

[Silver35th]

Originally Posted by chocolate And to make it worse. If you poor a cup of water in the pacific ocean, Does it rase the water level on the other side of the world. Yes it does but agian its ever so slightly its probobly not messurable by us right now.

I love thinking about this stuff. And then the other factors that come into play like evaporation and rivers flowing into the oceans and displacement of ships, etc. lol

[prowatt!]

Originally Posted by deedub97GT who the hell gets drunk and talks about physics???? thats all i want to know.

Varience. I'm usually drunk, physics was just the topic that came to mind at that moment

[prowatt!]

Originally Posted by Cathedral I The underlying point of all my comments is just that-it's all theory, and as such, the OP's question of why light has no mass yet can be acted on by gravity is: who knows, because light having no mass is just a theory. Just like how we think gravity is caused by the forces of interacting gravitons. A theory. Yes, we can measure gravity using what we know, but technically we don't actually know what we are measuring. On another note, glad to see there are so many nerds on this board.

Once you start mixing Newtons Laws and light things just seem not to work together. I understand the underlying theories (for the most part). What I do not understand is how we can measure the speed and force of light when it is said to have no mass?

I know I'm not going to find the solution, I just think it's worth talking about to hear other opinions on the matter (pun).

So fuck lights mass, or no mass. Lets talk about Bose-Einstein condensate. Matter turning to waves, ya know kinda like light but with mass

Coherant atoms FTW.