[JBIGBOOTSY]

Originally Posted by catchtheroadrunner Duh!! I'm not talking about the nature or what happened. I'm talking about the effects. You don't even know what happened do you? For example, Carlysle Fund borrowed $37 dollars for every dollar of assets they had. Do you think the average shareholder would've supported this move. When the values of the properties held fell, the company didn't have enough "stuff" to sell when their margins were called in. The same with Baer and Sterns, though I don't know the ration of asset to debt. During the peak of the mortgage bubble, banks were not checking incomes often, giving loans to people with crappy credit and then selling the loans to other companies without disclosure. And you really think cars can run on water.... It's been claimed 3 times in the past 20 years and in all cases it's been debunked. You cannot get more energy out of water than it takes to split the hydrogen from the oxygen. investment risk is a bullshit, blanket cop out, and doesn't apply when a company is blatantly behaving irresponsibly or corruptly.

Uhhh, Banks do check incomes, they sure checked mine. Intrest only, Baloon rate, variable rate mortages are the ones that are in forclosure most of the time. That is the fault of the borrower, not the lender. It's the borrowers responsibility to know his limits, inspite of what may happen(ifs, and buts). Bottom line is that we are all responsible for our own financial situations,no matter who we try and blame it on, and try to get out of it.

Investment risk was, is, and will ever be present when you give someone your money. From ENRON, to the MOB.

I never said you can run a car on watter. Fuel cell cars use Gasoline as fuel, do you know what your talking about? Their waste is water. Dam son ,your in a tiffy to prove someone wrong you dont even stop to think.

I am familiar with some Physics, which is why gas is better. Everytime you convert energy, you lose some. Coal-heat-electricity. Gas-heat.

[catchtheroadrunner]

Originally Posted by JBIGBOOTSY Uhhh, Banks do check incomes, they sure checked mine. Intrest only, Baloon rate, variable rate mortages are the ones that are in forclosure most of the time. That is the fault of the borrower, not the lender. It's the borrowers responsibility to know his limits, inspite of what may happen(ifs, and buts). Bottom line is that we are all responsible for our own financial situations,no matter who we try and blame it on, and try to get out of it. Investment risk was, is, and will ever be present when you give someone your money. From ENRON, to the MOB. I never said you can run a car on watter. Fuel cell cars use Gasoline as fuel, do you know what your talking about? Their waste is water. Dam son ,your in a tiffy to prove someone wrong you dont even stop to think. I am familiar with some Physics, which is why gas is better. Everytime you convert energy, you lose some. Coal-heat-electricity. Gas-heat.

UHHH, No! A major part of the crash involves banks lowering their standards for credit checks and misleading borrowers on how much they can afford to buy. Also, those that purchased under variable rate would have been perfectly safe if the questionable practices at the top had never happened. Mortgages houses like Baer and Sterns, Citigroup, Fanny Mae, and Freddie Mac have specificly, directly contributed to a great deal of the variable rate problems that the average joe is experiencing.

[stangfreak]

Originally Posted by MSO you guys are seriously retarded if all the vehicles in america got 2% better gas mileage, we can eliminate most of our dependency on foreign oil

if all the vehicles in america got 2% better gas mileage we would eliminate or dependancy by 2%

[MSO]

Originally Posted by catchtheroadrunner First of all people that earn that much money cannot work less. They are locked into high level or high demand jobs like politics or business and they simply cannot work less. Secondly, if you could see the way the average business owner of the type that generates $250,000 for the owner's pocket get's out of taxes it's astounding. The may make $250,000 on paper, but the lifestyle afford them by the grey areas of asset ownership (the business owns the car, but provides it to the owner as a working car, the yacht that get's billed as a primary residence so the loan is tax deductible. An older friend once told me, "Do what ever you want with your tax situation as long as when you get audited you can say ""Oops, my bad." plead your case, and negotiate the back taxes and penalties." Another trick he did with this building I'm in. He bought it for a great price, and then each year he loaned himself the amount of the acrude equity. So if the building went up in value 10%, he could loan himself $180,000. You don't pay income taxes on loans. Even the most honest business owners enjoy inherent tax breaks just because of the nature of our system. Just like a married couple get tax breaks. Why did I have to subsidize married life and public schools when I was single. So I'm not upset if I get taxed at a higher rate. My lifestyle will give that back to me, and then some. At the other end, it's only logical to give the poor a slight break in taxes. Do you think they're snickering at your misfortune. It's a non factor. The very poorest are so miserable, their lives are so shallow and meaningless and they don't even know it. The live hand to mouth with no hope of ever having anything better. There's no role models to keep them in line and in school, there's no schools worth going to, and when they graduate they can't afford college. I AM NOT saying that they don't fuel their own misery, non the less, it doesn't take a genius to try and figure if you could live on minimum wage. And what your life would be like. And it's not as easy as simply pulling yourself up by the bootstraps. There isn't enough room at the top for everyone when the very nature of being at the top means having MORE than one persons allotment of goodies in life. If waves of people began to improve themselves, the market would see their new income levels and lifestyles and adjust the price of services and goods in those sectors to capture the most potential profit. The same way in which these ghetto idiots pay $120 dollars for a pair of shoes and then can't even afford their co-pay at the hospital.

this is ripped right out of my tiny little mind.. too bad i lack the education to write it up myself

makes sense to me.. reps

[JBIGBOOTSY]

Thats what I'm saying. If you chose a variable rate, or other higher risk mortages its your fault you said yes. I pay 7% fixed, in 10yrs I haven't refinanced. I chose a house that was 50,000 less than I was approved for, and I keep my retirement in low risk. I dont borrow, I have a couple of credit cards, that ammount to a low total. This keeps me in great standings. I don't buy what I can't afford, no matter how bad I want somthing. I am not affraid of my financial future.

You are allowed 29.00% of your gross monthly income for a mortage, this has, and is the standard. PROPERTY TAXES going up has effected many people in forclosure, Mine have gone up, but it's OK I plan for things like that.

[MSO]

Originally Posted by JBIGBOOTSY Thats what I'm saying. If you chose a variable rate, or other higher risk mortages its your fault you said yes. I pay 7% fixed, in 10yrs I haven't refinanced. I chose a house that was 50,000 less than I was approved for, and I keep my retirement in low risk. I dont borrow, I have a couple of credit cards, that ammount to a low total. This keeps me in great standings. I don't buy what I can't afford, no matter how bad I want somthing. I am not affraid of my financial future. You are allowed 29.00% of your gross monthly income for a mortage, this has, and is the standard. PROPERTY TAXES going up has effected many people in forclosure, Mine have gone up, but it's OK I plan for things like that.

smart man.. i share the same philosophy

[JBIGBOOTSY]

Originally Posted by catchtheroadrunner First of all people that earn that much money cannot work less. They are locked into high level or high demand jobs like politics or business and they simply cannot work less. Secondly, if you could see the way the average business owner of the type that generates $250,000 for the owner's pocket get's out of taxes it's astounding. The may make $250,000 on paper, but the lifestyle afford them by the grey areas of asset ownership (the business owns the car, but provides it to the owner as a working car, the yacht that get's billed as a primary residence so the loan is tax deductible. An older friend once told me, "Do what ever you want with your tax situation as long as when you get audited you can say ""Oops, my bad." plead your case, and negotiate the back taxes and penalties." Another trick he did with this building I'm in. He bought it for a great price, and then each year he loaned himself the amount of the acrude equity. So if the building went up in value 10%, he could loan himself $180,000. You don't pay income taxes on loans. Even the most honest business owners enjoy inherent tax breaks just because of the nature of our system. Just like a married couple get tax breaks. Why did I have to subsidize married life and public schools when I was single. So I'm not upset if I get taxed at a higher rate. My lifestyle will give that back to me, and then some. At the other end, it's only logical to give the poor a slight break in taxes. Do you think they're snickering at your misfortune. It's a non factor. The very poorest are so miserable, their lives are so shallow and meaningless and they don't even know it. The live hand to mouth with no hope of ever having anything better. There's no role models to keep them in line and in school, there's no schools worth going to, and when they graduate they can't afford college. I AM NOT saying that they don't fuel their own misery, non the less, it doesn't take a genius to try and figure if you could live on minimum wage. And what your life would be like. And it's not as easy as simply pulling yourself up by the bootstraps. There isn't enough room at the top for everyone when the very nature of being at the top means having MORE than one persons allotment of goodies in life. If waves of people began to improve themselves, the market would see their new income levels and lifestyles and adjust the price of services and goods in those sectors to capture the most potential profit. The same way in which these ghetto idiots pay $120 dollars for a pair of shoes and then can't even afford their co-pay at the hospital.

I too agree. There are points of "perpetual wealth, and Perpetual poverty" once you make a cirtan ammount of money, you can't help but make more, also if you make less than the ammount you need, un changed, it is impossible to stay afloat.

[catchtheroadrunner]

Originally Posted by JBIGBOOTSY I too agree. There are points of "perpetual wealth, and Perpetual poverty" once you make a cirtan ammount of money, you can't help but make more, also if you make less than the ammount you need, un changed, it is impossible to stay afloat.

"perpetual wealth", I like that one.

[JBIGBOOTSY]

It's true. When you can start spending money on things like summer homes, fine art exct. . . You can only help but gain from them. I have to admit, it sounds utterly unfair though.

[02MustangV6e9]

"The resolve of this great nation is being tested. But make no mistake, the world will see.. that we will pass this test."

GWB.

[JBIGBOOTSY]

We will PASS the TEST... We will... PATEST.