[prochargedGT]

Ya i went to the midnight drags (open drag to anyone with a drivers license) two weekends ago and my mind was blown away by a guy named courtney green...He ran a 9.13 @ 166 at 4600ft elevation in a white civic hatch...it looked like he was skiing down the track

[FLEX4.6]

So I read through all of this just to find out that no race ever took place... Full of FAIL.

[BlkGt03]

im with flex i hate myself for reading threw this whole thread....FAIL

[BML99]

Thread from July is from July.

[Solar Black]

Originally Posted by OptionalStang those honda's are getting fast...honestly.i think he may beat you off teh line but you will pass him at around 70ish and keep on pulling away..i raced my buds 2010?? civic si and he kept up with my cougar,his was manula and miens auto but still...and that Vtehc is cool,i could hear it kick in..nnnnnnnn VROOOOOOOM kinda cool.they are becoming less ricy.but no matyter what front wheel drive car i see with a spoiler i have to ask, but why? does that downdraft help those non powered rear wheels..

Vtec is not too bad. A good way to make a daily driver know it needs to be sporty. Rear wing on fwd? It helps with cornering. Fwd, RWD, and AWD still need all wheels on ground for proper turning radius. On a fwd, if no traction on rear wheels then it will just whip out. Also, the way to take a corner in racing on a fwd is completly different then on a RWD or AWD.

[GreenMustang00]

Originally Posted by Solar Black Vtec is not too bad. A good way to make a daily driver know it needs to be sporty. Rear wing on fwd? It helps with cornering. Fwd, RWD, and AWD still need all wheels on ground for proper turning radius. On a fwd, if no traction on rear wheels then it will just whip out. Also, the way to take a corner in racing on a fwd is completly different then on a RWD or AWD.

[FLEX4.6]

Originally Posted by Solar Black Vtec is not too bad. A good way to make a daily driver know it needs to be sporty. Rear wing on fwd? It helps with cornering. Fwd, RWD, and AWD still need all wheels on ground for proper turning radius. On a fwd, if no traction on rear wheels then it will just whip out. Also, the way to take a corner in racing on a fwd is completly different then on a RWD or AWD.

If you have downforce on the rear wheels of a fwd car that would be taking the force off of the front wheels which would cause less traction... Correct?

[Solar Black]

Correct, that is why the huge wings are Stoopid. The wing needs to be specific to the track it is running so it gives it enough downforce for rear wheels but not lose traction on front wheels.

[GreenMustang00]

F wing or go home

Google Images

[BlueDevil]

Originally Posted by GreenMustang00 F wing or go home Google Images

Fix'd


***you should see the reverse wheelie it can pull


Please die thread.
Die!

[wrathchild]

Way too many people in this thread that know next to nothing about aero and how it works And why you may want it, on ANY vehicle. I am STUNNED at the incredible ignorance from some people in this thread. Seriously guys, I expected a hell of a lot more out of you.

FACT, a wing on a FWD car does and can make sense in some situations.

First off, lets get it out there that it has to be a proper wing, which very few of the ones you see are, and it needs to be properly "aimed" for it to do anything.



FWD cars NEED REAR WHEEL TRACTION just as bad as any RWD car, unless they are a dedicated drag car, in which case, rear wheel traction is next to meaningless. *see note*

In corners, you still need traction. Do you think that because its FWD, somehow MAGICALLY you dont need the rear wheels to bite? In fact, in a FWD car, in some cases its MORE important, as many setups have a lot of a tendency to have snap throttle lift oversteer. Also, in a straight line, it can help with high speed stability. But I guess FWD somehow magically makes that irrelevant too?


Does it make sense on a FWD street car? Depends on how you drive it. Do you like hitting twisty roads a lot? Then a proper wing, set up correctly, is something to consider. Some wings generate measureable downforce (or at least eliminate a measureable amount of lift) as low as 30mph. (and it doesnt have to be huge to do this in some cases) Do you drive over 80mph a lot on the highway? Again, something to consider.



*note from up above*
--- In some cases with certain cars, a rear wing can still be useful on a drag car, if the car has problems with the airflow off the back, a properly designed wing (properly designed/set up for this purpose) can fix that airflow problem, and lower the overall drag coef of the vehicle, making it faster.


Seriously guys, its 2011, this shouldnt be anything that should need to be said.




Now, in most cases, the wings you see on FWD cars, are useless and not properly set up.

However, a wing doesnt have to be $$$ and wind tunnel tested to work. Grassroots motorsports put a like $50 autozone ricer wing on their miata and it helped keep it planted even at autocross speeds. But it was aimed properly.

[wrathchild]

Originally Posted by BlueDevil Fix'd ***you should see the reverse wheelie it can pull Please die thread. Die!

That front wing shaved HUGE amounts of time off that car. To the point where they were trying to make it illegal. It created something like 1100lbs of downforce, and that car made well over 600whp, and was having traction problems coming out of turns at high speeds. It is ugly and stupid looking, but that car DOMINATED because of it.

[wrathchild]

Originally Posted by FLEX4.6 If you have downforce on the rear wheels of a fwd car that would be taking the force off of the front wheels which would cause less traction... Correct?

Nope.

Originally Posted by Solar Black Correct, that is why the huge wings are Stoopid. .

Nope.



More downforce on the rear wheels has next to no affect on the downforce on the front wheels UNLESS it creates lift on the front because of the rake on the car. Which is ALMOST impossible to generate that amount of force on a street or non professional level track car. Its enough so as to not even be worth thinking about.

On some cars, it can create more overall downforce, even on the front. (although not nearly as much as the rear) if that car has a problem with the flow over the whole car that is corrected by the wing.



Cars are not sitting on a fixed pivot in the middle, its not a seasaw 1" down on the back does not=1" up on the front. Sure it CAN lift the other end, if you put an INCREDIBLE load on one end, like the old pic of the lumber jetta But a wing on a street car even a midrange track car, isnt doing to generate that sort of downforce.









There is also the problem that some cars by their own shape happen to have more downforce on the front to begin with, and a wing can level it out and make the car stick harder by being more balanced.

Also, downforce isnt the only thing to worry about. At speed (even 50-60mph) many (most) vehicles start to have LIFT, and a proper wing can help negate that. (Although usually a lip and underbody panels are used to correct this condition, as instead of pushing down on the car to fix the lift, it makes more sense to just get rid of the lift before it even happens. )


None of this is meant to defend the idiots that make up the vast majority of people with big rear wings, as 99% of them are idiots who bought a wing that doesnt work and didnt aim it right even if it could work. But thinking that a FWD car doesnt need downforce on the non driven wheels is being misinformed.

[wrathchild]

Sorry for the rants BTW

I dont want to step on toes pointlessly and I really dont mean any of it as flaming, this particular subject is just a big pet peave of mine.

[BML99]

Settle down, man!