Turbo Size, A/R and Trim
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Old October 26th, 2005, 10:52 PM   281 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1
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Turbo Size, A/R and Trim


A/R Explanation
A/R is the rated volumetric efficiency of a turbos 2 sections, so to speak. Imagine if you have a garden hose spraying water out at a pinwheel
with the hose open ended, the pinwheel spins okay. Put a nozzle on it an the pinwheel will spin like mad.

There are issues with the nozzle on the end, you lose volume but gain pressure. With the nozzle off you gain volume, but lose pressure and you can't turn the pinwheel as much.

Simply put, on small displacement engines a smaller A/R is better, on large displacement engine a larger A/R is better due to exhaust volume.

A larger A/R will spool later and provide a higher power band, if your engine is capable of reaching the RPMS it should be used in.

You can't cross compare different types of housings and wheels, but if you have a typical T3/TO4E 57 trim with a stage 3 exhaust wheel and a .48 A/R housing, it might have a powerband of 3000-7000, with the .63 it might be 4000-8000, and with a .82 A/R housing it might be 5000-9000. If you have headwork and cams that stop pulling at 8000 RPM's, it's smart to run the .63 A/R housing. If you have a fully ported head and huge cams that will make power till 9000, the .82 A/R housing would be a better choice. <Source>


<Picture Source>





<Picture Source>


This rx7 link I provided tells you how to calculate the trim of a compressor wheel. Just a little fyi when calculating trims, you can calculate it in inches or mm it doesn't matter. Trim is just the ratio of inducer/exducer. The trim will come out the same whether you calculate inches or mm. The link also tells you how a higher or lower trim number determines where the compressor is the most efficient. Also check out the previously provided Garrett link to look at the products menu and the tech menu. You can use the products->turbochargers menu to calculate the trim of the compressor wheels. Use the formula in the rx7 club site or Garrett site to calculate the trim.
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Old October 26th, 2005, 11:08 PM   #2
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great write up. Definitly helpful although keep in mind most mustangs redline somewhere between 5500 and 7000 rpms however it sounds like the smaller trim wont do as much. Is there a perfect turbo for a low revving motor with alot of displacement exhaust?
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Old October 27th, 2005, 10:19 PM   #3
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That's for you to decide. The write up shows you how to figure out the proper A/R and trim necessary to get a good, fast spooling turbo to help the low end torque grunt.

The part about the high revving was because it was written about Honda's. You can disregard that, unless you wanna build a 4.6 with an 8k redline and turbo it. lol
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Old November 27th, 2007, 01:16 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by 2000Si View Post
A/R Explanation
A/R is the rated volumetric efficiency of a turbos 2 sections, so to speak. Imagine if you have a garden hose spraying water out at a pinwheel
with the hose open ended, the pinwheel spins okay. Put a nozzle on it an the pinwheel will spin like mad.

There are issues with the nozzle on the end, you lose volume but gain pressure. With the nozzle off you gain volume, but lose pressure and you can't turn the pinwheel as much.

Simply put, on small displacement engines a smaller A/R is better, on large displacement engine a larger A/R is better due to exhaust volume.

A larger A/R will spool later and provide a higher power band, if your engine is capable of reaching the RPMS it should be used in.

You can't cross compare different types of housings and wheels, but if you have a typical T3/TO4E 57 trim with a stage 3 exhaust wheel and a .48 A/R housing, it might have a powerband of 3000-7000, with the .63 it might be 4000-8000, and with a .82 A/R housing it might be 5000-9000. If you have headwork and cams that stop pulling at 8000 RPM's, it's smart to run the .63 A/R housing. If you have a fully ported head and huge cams that will make power till 9000, the .82 A/R housing would be a better choice. <Source>


<Picture Source>





<Picture Source>


This rx7 link I provided tells you how to calculate the trim of a compressor wheel. Just a little fyi when calculating trims, you can calculate it in inches or mm it doesn't matter. Trim is just the ratio of inducer/exducer. The trim will come out the same whether you calculate inches or mm. The link also tells you how a higher or lower trim number determines where the compressor is the most efficient. Also check out the previously provided Garrett link to look at the products menu and the tech menu. You can use the products->turbochargers menu to calculate the trim of the compressor wheels. Use the formula in the rx7 club site or Garrett site to calculate the trim.
bump i wanted to bring this back up it has been most helpful
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Old March 11th, 2008, 07:04 PM   #5
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@2000SI


Thanks Sir!


Very nice and interesting.

My knowlegde about turbos is limited and altough your explaination is very exact I still have problems to determine what size of turbo I should take.

I build a 68 Impala with 540cid BBC with Dart 320 alu-heads and want to go with a twin turbo setup.

I have enough torque through the huge displacement but I would like to have additional power in the mid to high rpm - range.

From your explaination the 48 A/R housing would be the right one since my engine got redline at 7000rpm but I will rev it only up to 6500-6800maximum rpm. I have around 9,6:1 compression and threrefor I will not go higher than 6 - maximum 9psi. I have bought 2-1/4" upsweep dragster headers and will convert them to nice turbo headers.

What is your recommedation for a turbo, is a pair of T4s to small for 6-9psi?

Also I would like to keep down with the weight since the BBC got enough weight already and I have been told that a bigger turbo got around 50pounds, is that really true.

Thanks Hannes

.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 10:32 PM   #6
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good info, but your a/r suggestions are well off... Im not even an expert, but I can tell you that a 76mm w/ .96 will make boost around 3200
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Old April 17th, 2008, 04:44 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by banned View Post
good info, but your a/r suggestions are well off... Im not even an expert, but I can tell you that a 76mm w/ .96 will make boost around 3200
that depends on the motor that the turbo is linked to, mind you..
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Old July 17th, 2008, 10:14 PM   #8
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Picking A/R comes down to spool time vs. top end power band.
You need to decide where you want your power band and plan accordingly from
the start.

Power band should not only decide A/R, but cam selection, heads, intake
compression ratio, rear gears ..... there's a lot to this and no magical
method or perfect right or wrong answer.


I'll add my bit to the sticky.


Using and reading Compressor Maps


First we need engine air requirements.

( cid X .5 X Ve X rpm ) / 1728 = cfm
( 14.7 + psi ) / 14.7 = P.R. (press. ratio)

P.R x CFM = boosted CFM

boosted CFM / 13 = lbs/min


So we have a 302 with Ve of 80% and 6,000rpm power band
wanting to run 15psi.

( 302 X .5 X .80 X 6,000 ) / 1728 = 420cfm
( 14.7 + 15 ) / 14.7 = 2.02 PR.

420 X 2.02 = 848 cfm boosted
848 / 13 = 65.2 lbs/min

65 lbs/min and 2.02 PR are the numbers needed to plot
out on your compressor map.

You also need to do the calculation at the rpm that full
boost will first be reached and make sure it does not cross the
surge limit line to the left at the map.

You want your plotted points to remain inside the map and as
close to the center as possible, while using smallest turbo that will
meet your goals. For twins just divide the turbo load in half.

Good link for turbo and s/c compressor maps.
Same calculations can be used on an s/c compressor map too.
Turbo and Supercharger Maps
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Old October 3rd, 2008, 08:59 PM   #9
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hi guys,
i know this is an old thread, but its informative and helps, and i've seen recent posts here. i'm planning on getting some hx40 units rebuilt for me, they will be 19cm. my question is, what size wheels would you guys be interested in? the options on the compressor wheel will be: 87mm for the exducer and one of the following for the inducer: 60mm, 58mm, 56mm, 54mm, or 52mm.
i can also use different size wheels. anyone have any thoughts or ideas?
thank you for any help, mike
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TurboClub :: Vaata teemat - K:turbo kohta? This thread Refback July 25th, 2009 03:00 PM
TurboClub :: Vaata teemat - K:turbo kohta? This thread Refback July 25th, 2009 12:00 PM
Untitled document This thread Refback July 22nd, 2009 05:52 AM
Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum - View Single Post - GT35/40R what a/r is it, winner gets a prize!! This thread Refback July 21st, 2009 06:32 PM
GT35/40R what a/r is it, winner gets a prize!! - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum This thread Refback July 21st, 2009 06:31 PM
GT35/40R what a/r is it, winner gets a prize!! - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum This thread Refback July 17th, 2009 07:30 PM
GT35/40R what a/r is it, winner gets a prize!! - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum This thread Refback July 17th, 2009 07:22 PM
GT35/40R what a/r is it, winner gets a prize!! - Mitsubishi Lancer Register Forum This thread Refback July 17th, 2009 07:21 PM
турбо за сивик This thread Refback July 5th, 2009 02:50 PM
Untitled document This thread Refback June 15th, 2009 11:36 AM
La R32 de autoconcept! swap RB26 Nur Spec SINGLE TURBO 476 WHP! - Page 2 - MONTREALRACING This thread Refback June 7th, 2009 06:06 AM
Turbo sizes and what they mean - Nissan Skyline Owners - U.S.A. This thread Refback June 3rd, 2009 10:07 PM
Need Turbo Pro - WWW.S197FORUM.COM This thread Refback June 2nd, 2009 10:18 PM
Untitled document This thread Refback May 17th, 2009 05:27 AM
Untitled document This thread Refback May 9th, 2009 10:06 AM
The Irish Rotary Owners Club :: View topic - turbo options, advice please This thread Refback May 4th, 2009 07:38 AM
The Irish Rotary Owners Club :: View topic - turbo options, advice please This thread Refback May 3rd, 2009 05:59 AM
The Irish Rotary Owners Club :: View topic - turbo options, advice please This thread Refback May 2nd, 2009 11:26 PM
Will this turbo work ok? - Miata Turbo Forum - Home of the turbo Mazda Miata. This thread Pingback May 1st, 2009 01:59 PM
court 101 pour turbo s.v.p. - MONTREALRACING This thread Pingback April 11th, 2009 03:25 PM
Tufast needs a TURBO... - Page 2 This thread Refback April 8th, 2009 01:32 PM
Tufast needs a TURBO... - Page 2 This thread Pingback April 8th, 2009 12:25 PM
Untitled document This thread Refback April 4th, 2009 05:03 AM
????? ?? ????? - Hondabg.com ?????? This thread Refback March 13th, 2009 06:53 AM
Untitled document This thread Refback March 3rd, 2009 07:57 AM
Untitled document This thread Refback March 3rd, 2009 07:57 AM
Turbo Upgrade - The Saab Link Forums This thread Refback February 25th, 2009 11:30 AM
Turbo Upgrade - The Saab Link Forums This thread Refback February 25th, 2009 09:45 AM
ShoutBox This thread Refback February 24th, 2009 03:56 AM
ShoutBox This thread Refback February 23rd, 2009 05:40 PM
ShoutBox This thread Refback February 23rd, 2009 05:25 PM
ShoutBox This thread Refback February 23rd, 2009 05:18 PM
????? ?? ????? - Hondabg.com ?????? This thread Refback February 20th, 2009 10:32 AM
Hondabg.com ?????? > ????? ?? ????? This thread Refback February 20th, 2009 09:44 AM
????? ?? ????? - Hondabg.com ?????? This thread Refback February 19th, 2009 02:59 PM
????? ?? ????? - Hondabg.com ?????? This thread Refback February 19th, 2009 02:40 PM
????? ?? ????? - Hondabg.com ?????? This thread Refback February 19th, 2009 02:38 PM
????? ?? ????? - Hondabg.com ?????? This thread Refback February 19th, 2009 02:32 PM
What the hell is A/R? - Duramax Diesels Forum This thread Refback February 16th, 2009 07:29 PM
What info on our Turbo? - Dodge Caliber Forums This thread Refback January 6th, 2009 11:08 AM
What info on our Turbo? - Dodge Caliber Forums This thread Refback January 6th, 2009 10:48 AM
What info on our Turbo? - Dodge Caliber Forums This thread Refback January 6th, 2009 10:35 AM
What info on our Turbo? - Dodge Caliber Forums This thread Refback January 6th, 2009 10:28 AM
Best turbo for RB20 - 240SX Forums This thread Refback January 1st, 2009 01:01 AM
Lets talk(civilized) about turbos. - Turbo Mopar Forums This thread Refback December 20th, 2008 10:16 PM
Lets talk(civilized) about turbos. - Turbo Mopar Forums This thread Refback December 20th, 2008 09:50 PM
Shoptalkforums.com :: View topic - Which turbo????? This thread Refback December 19th, 2008 10:07 AM
www.savarturbo.se :: Lser mne - AR gmfrt med cm2 p turbin. This thread Refback December 16th, 2008 03:21 PM
ScionLife View topic - Post your turbocharged pics! This thread Refback December 15th, 2008 08:50 PM
Shoptalkforums.com :: View topic - Which turbo????? This thread Refback December 14th, 2008 10:55 PM
Turbine A/r? - RX7Club.com This thread Refback December 14th, 2008 08:32 PM
ScionLife View topic - Post your turbocharged pics! This thread Refback December 14th, 2008 01:59 AM
ScionLife View topic - Post your turbocharged pics! This thread Refback December 14th, 2008 01:50 AM
ScionLife View topic - Bigger intercoolahh This thread Refback December 14th, 2008 01:38 AM
Turbine A/r? - RX7Club.com This thread Refback November 29th, 2008 11:28 AM
Turbine A/r? - RX7Club.com This thread Refback November 29th, 2008 11:16 AM
Turbo Question : What Do These Numbers Mean - Dodge Diesel - Diesel Truck Resource Forums This thread Refback November 25th, 2008 05:46 PM
Turbo Question : What Do These Numbers Mean - Dodge Diesel - Diesel Truck Resource Forums This thread Refback November 25th, 2008 05:13 PM
Shoptalkforums.com :: View topic - Which turbo????? This thread Refback November 22nd, 2008 05:15 PM
Shoptalkforums.com :: View topic - Which turbo????? This thread Refback November 15th, 2008 09:25 AM
Shoptalkforums.com :: View topic - Which turbo????? This thread Refback November 14th, 2008 10:53 PM
ScionLife View topic - Bigger intercoolahh This thread Refback November 11th, 2008 03:52 PM
ScionLife View topic - Bigger intercoolahh This thread Refback November 11th, 2008 03:50 PM
Turbo Guide: Yes, the boost gauge works. - Page 10 - PbNation This thread Refback November 1st, 2008 12:44 AM
Turbo Guide: Yes, the boost gauge works. - Page 10 - PbNation This thread Refback November 1st, 2008 12:44 AM
Turbo on a 24v V6 - Club GTI This thread Refback October 28th, 2008 06:03 PM
Turbo questions: Im trying my best. - PbNation This thread Refback October 27th, 2008 03:31 PM
motorgeek.com :: View topic - Rear mount 12v, Simple questions before getting started. This thread Refback October 5th, 2008 02:29 PM
Lookie what I just bought.... - Page 2 - AKMS Forums This thread Refback September 30th, 2008 08:50 AM
help identify my turbo.... - mazdarotaryclub.com This thread Refback September 14th, 2008 05:46 AM
Post A Tech Article That Helps This thread Refback September 10th, 2008 12:46 AM
La R32 de autoconcept! swap RB26 Nur Spec SINGLE TURBO 476 WHP! - Page 2 - MONTREALRACING This thread Refback September 5th, 2008 11:22 PM
Turbo on a 24v V6 - Club GTI This thread Refback August 26th, 2008 03:28 AM
Turbo on a 24v V6 - Club GTI This thread Refback August 25th, 2008 07:06 PM
Turbo on a 24v V6 - Club GTI This thread Refback August 25th, 2008 06:53 PM
La R32 de autoconcept! swap RB26 Nur Spec ! enfin ///ALPINELOVER va etre content! - Page 2 - MONTREALRACING This thread Refback July 16th, 2008 08:07 PM
B16A2 head build....(prepare for some long wind) - Page 10 This thread Pingback July 4th, 2008 09:24 AM
compression? This thread Pingback July 4th, 2008 12:04 AM
one last question - KA-t turbo?? - FreshAlloy.com Forums This thread Refback June 30th, 2008 11:48 PM
one last question - KA-t turbo?? - FreshAlloy.com Forums This thread Refback June 8th, 2008 12:57 PM
bimmers.no :: Vis Temaet - Turbogutta, se her: This thread Refback June 6th, 2008 05:17 PM
VRT Phase IV This thread Refback May 13th, 2008 06:20 PM
nocarret site This thread Refback May 6th, 2008 01:34 PM
www.neons.org :: View topic - Turbonetics turbo, maybe....help!!! NO 56K This thread Refback May 1st, 2008 01:56 AM
www.neons.org :: View topic - Turbonetics turbo, maybe....help!!! NO 56K This thread Refback May 1st, 2008 01:55 AM
La skyline r32 de autoconcept! swap RB26 BNR34-GTR N1 Nur Spec ! UPDATE PAGE 3 ! - Page 2 - MONTREALRACING This thread Refback April 4th, 2008 05:18 PM
bimmers.no :: Vis Temaet - Turbogutta, se her: This thread Refback April 2nd, 2008 02:54 PM
V6Z24.com :: View topic - Need to ID my turbo This thread Refback March 31st, 2008 07:16 PM
V6Z24.com :: View topic - Need to ID my turbo This thread Refback March 31st, 2008 03:06 AM
La skyline r32 de autoconcept! swap RB26 BNR34-GTR N1 Nur Spec ! - Page 2 - MONTREALRACING This thread Pingback March 23rd, 2008 08:55 PM
NEED A MASTER PLAN FOR 540 TWIN TURBO SETUP ! ! ! This thread Refback March 8th, 2008 06:26 PM
NEED A MASTER PLAN FOR 540 TWIN TURBO SETUP ! ! ! This thread Refback March 7th, 2008 11:44 AM
General Info - Turbobricks Forums This thread Refback February 29th, 2008 06:29 AM
Untitled document This thread Refback February 21st, 2008 09:50 PM
Albuquerque DSM Club :: View topic - How to calculate A/R, turbo trim, and other values This thread Refback February 21st, 2008 09:08 PM
Untitled document This thread Refback February 16th, 2008 10:23 AM
VRT Phase IV This thread Refback February 11th, 2008 04:46 PM
My B-day gift has arrived!Thanks to my sponsor VISA!lol - Page 4 - d2m - Driven2Modify.com - Southeastern Automotive Forums This thread Refback February 9th, 2008 04:27 AM
My B-day gift has arrived!Thanks to my sponsor VISA!lol - Page 4 - d2m - Driven2Modify.com - Southeastern Automotive Forums This thread Refback February 9th, 2008 04:26 AM
GT40R Turbo - Preludepower.com This thread Refback February 8th, 2008 09:24 PM
Understanding Your turbo Size, AR and Trim - B20Vtec.Com...... B Series and Beyond This thread Refback January 24th, 2008 06:11 PM
nocarret site This thread Refback January 15th, 2008 06:07 AM
GT40R Turbo - Preludepower.com This thread Refback January 9th, 2008 01:41 PM
GT40R Turbo - Preludepower.com This thread Refback January 9th, 2008 02:09 AM
GT40R Turbo - Preludepower.com This thread Refback January 9th, 2008 01:27 AM
My SpecV - Your Ultimate Nissan SE-R Spec V Resource / trim and a/r defined (not by me) This thread Refback January 4th, 2008 11:32 AM

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