[Antfo89]

Hey guys got another question did a search and didn't find much on this. But what I was wondering is if a header replacement is actually worth the cash. Right now I have a mac o/r h-pipe and mac catback exhaust and sounds amazing imo. I have a 98 GT with plans on doing a head swap so I am scared when I swap the heads (PI Swap) my new headers wouldn't fit. is this true also? still learning alot. But I feel like im missing something because of the headers but they seem expensive for what I would get out of them is this true? Looking for some suggestions. If you suggest getting new ones what is the difference between equal length headers and just normal ones? Looking for some help on this one! thanks guys

[ModMustang97GT]

The only headers that are worth it are LTs. They give more bonus than the rest of your exhaust mods and they are like $400 if you get them in the right place. Look at MAC and BBK. Those are the cheapest yet still acceptable ones to get.

Other types of shorties and equal length shorties do not give torque and HP gains. Also, the Headers are identicle for PI and non-PI.

[Antfo89]

Thanks man. Just stinks because I already got my midpipe for shortys so I might just go with the bbk shorties. Just curious what is the gains difference between longtubes and shorties?

[ModMustang97GT]

Someone did a big write up once upon a time. had the horse power gains on a mostly stock mustang. And compared Shorties, Equal length shorties, LT's and stock. Can't remember where it was though. Take a look on Google, you might have some luck.

[Antfo89]

By what I have found it seems people go by preference I seem to find alot about a shorty saying better all over sound fitment and performance and they say longtubes are strictly HP going by what I have found I just need opinions really i might go for shortys because I almost see everyone with LT's and like I said my midpipe already fits shortys so it will save me cash.

[mpboy]

down the road LT are the way to go. you will get better #'s from them and headers are such a pain the the ass to install its better to do it once. if you cant afoord LT's and you are not worried about max #'s and you can only afford the shorty's then go ahead. it wont be pointless

[1TITAN]

i got longtubes on my 01 and it sounds badass and change... im with mpboy only do it once might as well not wish ya would off lol

[Eagle2000GT]

Long-tube eaders are not worth the cost. Since you are already running an o/r mid-pipe you will see very little gain over what you have now.

[Fluffy The Rhino]

It's subjective.

[Thumbie]

From MY experience, all headers in general don't make THAT much more power. It's more for sound. Longtubes will give you more of a hot rod note(tikkety tikkety) as well as more power gains(I think), more for torque than horsepower. If you've already bought pipes for shorties, go with shorties. You MIGHT see gains of up to 10 hp/torque but the power difference over stock really wont be that noticable. It all comes down to how much green youve got. hope this helped!

[ModMustang97GT]

When I did my swap my thinking went like this. If I am going to be jacking up the engine, and spending a week under my car trying to get this work done. I dont want to do it more than I ever have to. And I don't want to spend $300 on shorties, and then replace them with LT's down the road cause I wanted more power. Then I have to get rid of the shorties and do the damn swap again.

So I decided, bite the bullet. Spend the extra like $75 to get the LT's and enjoy the torque gains over the shorties. Plus get a better exhaust note and never need to upgrade it again.

Also, you can recycle the mid pipe by just getting it shortened. Any muffler shop will do it for you. Unless its a pro-chamber, its not going to hurt anything. And even then, it probably wouldn't hurt.

[Fluffy The Rhino]

Originally Posted by Eagle2000GT Long-tube eaders are not worth the cost. Since you are already running an o/r mid-pipe you will see very little gain over what you have now.

Then why do you have them on your car?

If you had the choice, you wouldn't pick shorties over long tubes. You wouldn't have those numbers without the long tubes.

While longtubes don't show massive gains over shorties, there are gains to be had. Most of us mod out cars to squeeze gains out of it wherever we can. This is just another example of something all of us can squeeze gains from. What's "worth the cost" is subjective depending on what you want out of it in the longrun.

If you're going to run F/I (not turbo) you'll definitely want longtubes. If you're going to build the motor, you'll definitely want longtubes. I don't know of many people who bought shorties to compliment their Kenne Bell superchargers... kind of proves the point.

Let's also take something else into consideration... I don't know a hell of a lot of people willing to install headers themselves. Odds are, people who buy these parts are going to pay some poor bastard to do the work for them. Shorties, mids, or LT's, probably cost around the same price range. Either way, the job is a pain in the ass. If you're going to spend the money, you might as well spend a little more and do it the right way. But then again, if people did things the right way, companies like BBK wouldn't still be in business. That's a whole other story right there : D


Bottom Line:

Would you want your dentist to half assed a root canal?

Then why the hell would you half ass what you do to your car?

[Antfo89]

Well tell ya the truth some of us don't have the "little extra money" to pay for someone to do it and I also want to put in the headers on my car I don't want anyone else working on my rig besides myself besides when I get it tuned. What is the difference between long tubes and shorties on a F/I car or N/A car I mean is there that big of a difference. I've also seen planty of cars with Vortechs and KB's with BBK shorties because they can't stand LT's. It just seems to me that it comes down to preference I've had 50/50 feedback on shorties and LT's. I've had guys that have had both say they like shorties and one will say they liked the LT's. I think it's just preference now honestly because it seems everyone is right and everyone knows best.

[brianm]

I had bbk shortys on my 03 and i was pleased with the gain. I did't consider it a half assed mod btw.

[Fluffy The Rhino]

Ths is why I said it was subjective in the first place.

I just get tired of seeing contradictory information. I researched it for a year before I put 'em on my car.

[Thumbie]

I completely agree with Fluffy. the power difference between stock and shorties IS pretty small. If its money your concerned about get some shorties on craigslist and calll it good. (but have them cleaned and ceramic coated/powder coated black before installling. chrome or polished just gets discolored after a while trust me)

[Eagle2000GT]

Originally Posted by FluffyTheRhino Then why do you have them on your car? If you had the choice, you wouldn't pick shorties over long tubes. You wouldn't have those numbers without the long tubes.

I have them on my car because I believed it when everyone said to buy long-tubes. I was already superchanged when I had them installed. I saw absolutely no gain on the chassis dyno. Four months earlier it was 385/370 with stock exhaust. The first pull with LTs was 385/367. The reason I was having the work done was because I needed a new tune. It was running rich in the middle and a little lean at 6000 rpm. The final tune with the MAFia was 370/377. So I actually did have those numbers with a stock exhaust. It's pretty easy to make 400 rwhp with a stock exhaust manifold.

I was puzzled so I started asking questions and found out I wasn't the only one who saw little or no gains on a dyno from long-tube headers. I started a thread asking about before and after dyno results. Almost all of the people who said LTs were the greatest didn't even have them installed on their cars. Most of those that did either didn't have before and after dyno runs or else did more than just an exhaust upgrade. A lot of people justified spending that much money because the car sounded better. My LTs cost over $1,000 for LTs, catted x-pipe and install. I certainly did not spend that much money for sound.

It was also interesting that we didn't see boost drop when the LTs were installed. It was 8.9 psi at 6000 rpms with the stock exhaust and 8.9 psi with the LTs and catted x-pipe. It became reasonable to believe that the catted x-pipe might the cause. I have since read that there really is no such thing as a high flow cat. During these discussons, I also noticed that people who just put on an o/r mid-pipe with stock exhaust manifolds were seeing almost the same gain as those who put on LTs with an o/r mid-pipe.

I became convinced that it is the o/r mid-pipe that is providing most of the gain.

What really solidified my opinion was the testing done on Horsepower TV on an engine dyno. They first tested shorties. They gained 8 bhp. They then tested LTs and saw no additional gain. Custom made "tuned" long-tube headers seem to give horsepower gains over shorties but the over-the-counter ones we buy don't seem to do much.

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by FluffyTheRhino It's subjective.

It's not subjective when you can put 'em to a dyno. One WILL make more power. Unfortunately, and I think you've mentioned this already, it's really hard to get good information - when you do, it's peak numbers, peak gains, and best-case scenarios, not back-to-back dyno charts.

[Antfo89]

ah I hate this discussion haha im going with my BBK Shorties my o/r h by mac and my mac catback this for me seems good reliablity, loud and great on performance.

[S197Mach1]

Originally Posted by Antfo89 ah I hate this discussion haha im going with my BBK Shorties my o/r h by mac and my mac catback this for me seems good reliablity, loud and great on performance.

You'll regret it once you do the PI swap. Long tubes are the best way to go with a modular engine. We are not talking about peak-peak gains or sound or any of that. These engines are torque limited and adding a quality long tube header, while expensive, pays huge dividends in torque production and deep breathing. Once you do the PI headswap you will see even more differences between short and long tube headers.

I've done countless headswap cars and there is always a 15-20 rwhp difference between the short and long tube headers. Yes, they are expensive. Yes, they are a bitch to install. However, if you spend your money on a quality set of headers you will be very glad you did.