[ReverendDexter]

This is a tangent thread from a thread in the 96-98 2v section.

I hear a lot of people say that a streetable 400hp is doable with a 4v 4.6L, and I'd like some proof of concept. I don't doubt that it's possible, but it seems like *everyone* who has this level of power got there with forced induction or nitrous, or it's a strip-only car.

For the sake of discussion...
*"Streetable" will mean here a car that is licensed and legal to run on the street in at least one state in the US, and would be viable to make a 200 round mile trip with your significant other. It also must run on pump gas. That means if your wife/husband/girlfriend wouldn't ride in it for 200 miles, you need race gas, or you'd get ticketed for driving it, it's not streetable.
*400hp means 400 rear wheel hp, or if it's determined that such a beast cannot exist (as I at this point currently believe) then 400 crank horsepower as determined by 360+ rear wheel horsepower on a chassis dyno.
*4.6L here means starting with a 4.6L block; if bore/stroke is necessary to acheive the power level, so be it, but starting with a 5.4L motor will not count.
*Naturally aspirated here will mean exactly that. No supercharging, turbocharging, nitrous, etc.

So, does this actually exist? Or does is it only as a bench racing motor?

[SWEET2KSTANG]

thats not that hard of a set up if you have the money to do it with.

[mustangfu]

I disagree... I think it would be one hell of a set up even with a substantial amount of money. Especially since the setup has to be streetable without tons of issues...

[06RedfireGT]

It is entirely possible. Look at doc8224's build

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by SWEET2KSTANG thats not that hard of a set up if you have the money to do it with.

This is what I hear, but again, no proof.

What mods are needed? What's your empirical data?

Saying it's "not hard" and having a proof of concept are too very different things.

I'm pretty eagerly waiting for Doc to chime in on this, because I think he's the only one that's even trying for something along these lines.

[DeMello]

&nbsp

[DeMello]

Combination during dyno run
Stock Short Block
Stock Intake
BBR CNC Throttle Body
BBR CNC Heads
BBR 3V Custom Cams
JLT Cold Air Kit
SCT X-Calibrator
BBR Under-drive Pullies
BBR Charge Motion Plates
Stainless Works 15/8 Longtube headers
BBR Custom Side Exhaust w/ Magna Flow Mufflers
4.10 Rear Gears
20"x10" Rear Wheels
93 Octane Pump Gas

[06RedfireGT]

&nbsp

Proof right there.

and these are the cams in it

YouTube - Ron G. BBR Stage II Idle

YouTube - Ron G. BBR Stage II Idle

With a BAP and injectors it is perfectly streetable.

[ReverendDexter]

Okay, so done with a 3v... 3v has a huge advantage in streetability with the variable cam timing.

any takers for a 4v? and a dyno sheet?

Sorry, I'm know I'm being nitpicky, but I don't want logical proof, I want empirical data.

[DeMello]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter Okay, so done with a 3v... any takers for a 4v?

if it can be done with a 3 it can with a 4

[06RedfireGT]

^

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by DeMello if it can be done with a 3 it can with a 4

Then it shouldn't be hard to find proof.

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by DeMello &nbsp

If you look at that page, it specifically says that tune is "too extreme for the street".

So, discounted as unstreetable.

This is really close, if it's "so easy" to get 400hp from a 4v, how come none of you can provide a dyno sheet?

[RandoGT]

contact Houston Performance. they have one i believe. not so sure if it's streetable though

[BWAL]

Originally Posted by 06RedfireGT It is entirely possible. Look at doc8224's build

shhhhhhhhh

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by RandoGT contact Houston Performance. they have one i believe. not so sure if it's streetable though

Rando, in the other thread you said this:

Originally Posted by RandoGT streetable 400HP n/a 4.6L? doubt that. Houston Performance made 400something, not sure, with a big bore stroker, SVO heads, SVO intake, and their custom cams along with all the other goodies.

So, we get that much closer...

[SWEET2KSTANG]

Originally Posted by mustangfu I disagree... I think it would be one hell of a set up even with a substantial amount of money. Especially since the setup has to be streetable without tons of issues...

how is it so hard for you to comprehend??? you only looking at 1.5hp per ci, that is easily done as long as the set up is done correctly

Originally Posted by 06RedfireGT It is entirely possible. Look at doc8224's build

we running short on funds, i am trying to do some figures to see how close we are going to be. i think we may come up a little shy because of cam selection.

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter This is what I hear, but again, no proof. What mods are needed? What's your empirical data? Saying it's "not hard" and having a proof of concept are too very different things. I'm pretty eagerly waiting for Doc to chime in on this, because I think he's the only one that's even trying for something along these lines.

i will tell him to come check it out

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter Okay, so done with a 3v... 3v has a huge advantage in streetability with the variable cam timing. any takers for a 4v? and a dyno sheet? Sorry, I'm know I'm being nitpicky, but I don't want logical proof, I want empirical data.

streetability advantage??? not really. the 4v will outflow the 3v set up, the vct is for torque advantages not the hp.

Originally Posted by RandoGT contact Houston Performance. they have one i believe. not so sure if it's streetable though

we have delt with hp on a few things and more than likely be going there for the dyno tuning. they do have a cobra that is laying 430rwhp on pump gas and is daily driven.

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by SWEET2KSTANG the 4v will outflow the 3v set up, the vct is for torque advantages not the hp.

My understanding is that what kills the streetability in cammed car is that it loses it's low-end, so having the vct would allow you to retain that, even with what would otherwise be some fairly radical camshafts. How is that not a big advantage in terms of streetability?

[SWEET2KSTANG]

that is why headwork and cam selection is critical. you can make well over 400 hp on pump gas if you dont mind not having a ton of low end torque. i cant remember what forum i was on, but there is a guy that is making 593rwhp on a 5.4 on race gas full N/A, pump gas will knock down the power, but will still make 500+.

[Doc8224]

My goal has been 400+ N/A from the beginning. I won't go broke to prove a point but I will tell you that if its not 400+ It will be very soon. As sweet said I had to cut corners on the cams so they might hold me up. I think it will still crest the 400 mark But I can tell you that my setup is very nice but it isn't super duper wild so with just a little more in it, especialy in the cams, up to 450 N/A is not that hard. Might take a little more compression to do it but trust me if you can do it with a 3v you can do it with a 4v and probably easier. I will definatly keep you guys posted as we start putting it back together. But 400 won't surprise me at all.