Upgrading engine, supercharger etc... Desperately need advice

Brandiny7 · September 3rd, 2008, 10:05 PM

Hello,

I am new to this forum, I signed up because I am in desperate need of advice from people who know more about this stuff than I. I have a 2000 Stage 2 Roush mustang and am looking to upgrade it to around 600whp. I am having a LOT of trouble finding places that actually know what they are talking about (I live in Los Angeles BTW). I finally found a place near me that seemed like they knew what they were doing, but I just got the price for a new 5.0l stroker engine and blower and it's MUCH higher than I expected and was quoted. I'm afraid I'm getting played at this point and don't have the knowledge to know it and the resources to compare prices. Have any of you done similar upgrades? What are some pricing ranges that sound reasonable? What other upgrades did you do to safely handle and utilize the power (new tranny, exhaust, suspension etc...?)

Help would be greatly appreciated, I feel a bit lost at this point and I'm not the type to rush into a bad deal and lose this much money.

Thank you,
Brando

Eagle2000GT · September 4th, 2008, 09:01 AM

I'd think maybe $20,000 might do it. Engine, supercharger, fuel system, suspension, and drive train improvements.

03_StangGuy · September 4th, 2008, 09:11 AM

Your gonna need to rebuild the engine, and drivetrain to handle the power. Fueling intake and exhuast needs to be addressed too. Suspension isnt necessary but you gonna need it to use all the power you have. Your best bet is do it in stages, get your motor to 400rwhp, then upgrade the drivetrain and suspension. and then work the motor over to get it done. Its not a cheap process thats for sure. The work required to get the engine to produce 600rwhp is gonna be like 10gs then you gonna spend the cash to get it to the ground.

Brandiny7 · September 4th, 2008, 08:01 PM

Thank you for the replies. When it comes to the engine, what's the difference between modular and not? Other than what seems to be a big price difference?

HMUSN · September 4th, 2008, 08:05 PM

basically put you have the modular motor which is the v8 motor in mustangs.
it comes in 2 valve , 3v, and 4v the higher the number of valves the more power you start off with.

99-04 GT = 2v
05-current GT= 3v
Cobra's and mach1's = 4v
the 03-04 Cobras have a supercharges 4v

then you have pushrod motors. these are the motors that came in the early 90's mustangs the 5.0's

they only have one camshaft while the 2v/3v motor has 2 and the 4v motors have 4

Brandiny7 · September 4th, 2008, 08:17 PM

Hmm... if the 4v starts off with more power, what would be the reason to get a 2v instead of 4v (that's what they suggested I get).

HMUSN · September 4th, 2008, 08:20 PM

it's cheaper to buy. lol that's about it

Brandiny7 · September 4th, 2008, 08:26 PM

That's really weird that they would suggest it then. Unless maybe the power wouldn't really be utilized tuned at lower compression for a blower?

HMUSN · September 4th, 2008, 08:33 PM

lets put it this way...

a 2v is 260 crank HP with crappy heads.
a 4v is 390 (under rated) crank HP with fully forged internals and the stock heads on this car will still outflow 2v heads if they was heavily ported and polished

what do ya think is the better platform?

Eagle2000GT · September 5th, 2008, 08:22 AM

The 390 (underrated) is with a supercharger. The older 4v's were 320.

RayzerFish · September 8th, 2008, 11:06 AM

Yeah, but if you go from a 2v to 3 or 4 you would have to change your computer, wouldn't you? I did a motor swap recently on my '96 GT. I stayed 2v but stage 3. The new engine was a 2001 and the only issue I had with compatability was the second coolant temp sensor (for the computer) was different. The 4v engines I know only have 1 coolant temp sensor which leads me to believe you may have wiring harness and sesor issues if you were to change over to a 4v. I may be wrong though, I'm a newbe too.

1StockGT · September 9th, 2008, 08:52 PM

I say get an 03/04 Cobra motor and tranny with low miles. You would need the computer and wiring harness that goes with the motor. In the long run it would probably be cheaper depending on how much you get the motor for. You would need a fuel system upgrade, but I think it would be a pretty easy swap. The Cobra motors are easy to get good power out of too. I'm putting down 472rwhp, with belt slip around 4800rpms, with just your basic bolt ons, ported s/c, and a conservative tune. With a Whipple or a Kenne Bell you'd easily be able to make 600rwhp.

Brandiny7 · September 12th, 2008, 02:50 AM

I left the place I was originally looking at to get this work done, and I'm in the process of finding a new one. In the mean time I've decided to have MMR (Modular Mustang Racing) build me a 5.0L 950 stroker 2v shortblock. I haven't decided if I am going to use them to install/upgrade everything else I'm getting done. It seems like I need to upgrade almost everything that's stock and not Roush to handle 600+rwhp from the new engine and turbo (quite a project). So, I am starting with the engine and turbo to give myself time to be light on it and break it in, then I am doing the rest in steps (tranny, rebuilding rear end, tires and possibly new rims, radiator and everything in between). I would appreciate any advice or thoughts.

97S281 · September 24th, 2008, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by RayzerFish

Yeah, but if you go from a 2v to 3 or 4 you would have to change your computer, wouldn't you? I did a motor swap recently on my '96 GT. I stayed 2v but stage 3. The new engine was a 2001 and the only issue I had with compatability was the second coolant temp sensor (for the computer) was different. The 4v engines I know only have 1 coolant temp sensor which leads me to believe you may have wiring harness and sesor issues if you were to change over to a 4v. I may be wrong though, I'm a newbe too.

Didn't you just tap the crossover to add the second temp sensor?

RayzerFish · September 25th, 2008, 11:03 AM

I guess that may work, but without a gusset there wouldn't be much wall thickness for threads. I'd be affraid it wouldn't hold. I put the second sensor under the intake on the inside of the head. It's a dry hole, but seems to be working OK. I'm noy getting a check engine light or anything. Although, I had my dyno tune done yesterday and was really disappointed with the numbers. I'll post that in another thread, but I expected a lot more than 266 rwhp with the mods (& $$$$) I put into it. Tuner said he had a hard time getting to the 13:1 fuel ratio.
Anyway, I'm going to look into your suggestion, and would still welcome any other alternatives to investigate.
Thanks 97

September 3rd, 2008, 10:05 PM	#1
Brandiny7 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5 iTrader: 0 reviews	Upgrading engine, supercharger etc... Desperately need advice Hello, I am new to this forum, I signed up because I am in desperate need of advice from people who know more about this stuff than I. I have a 2000 Stage 2 Roush mustang and am looking to upgrade it to around 600whp. I am having a LOT of trouble finding places that actually know what they are talking about (I live in Los Angeles BTW). I finally found a place near me that seemed like they knew what they were doing, but I just got the price for a new 5.0l stroker engine and blower and it's MUCH higher than I expected and was quoted. I'm afraid I'm getting played at this point and don't have the knowledge to know it and the resources to compare prices. Have any of you done similar upgrades? What are some pricing ranges that sound reasonable? What other upgrades did you do to safely handle and utilize the power (new tranny, exhaust, suspension etc...?) Help would be greatly appreciated, I feel a bit lost at this point and I'm not the type to rush into a bad deal and lose this much money. Thank you, Brando

September 4th, 2008, 09:01 AM	#2
Eagle2000GT I Post Entirely Way Too Much 2000 Mustang GT 12.73@111.36 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Shelbyville, IN Posts: 5,316 iTrader: 1 reviews	I'd think maybe $20,000 might do it. Engine, supercharger, fuel system, suspension, and drive train improvements. __________________ ProCharger P-1SC, 9 psi, STD 396/383; Uncorrected 388/375; SAE 383/370 Mods list in Garage.

September 4th, 2008, 09:11 AM	#3
03_StangGuy I Poop Entirely Way Too Much Blown 03 GT Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 6,918 iTrader: 0 reviews	Your gonna need to rebuild the engine, and drivetrain to handle the power. Fueling intake and exhuast needs to be addressed too. Suspension isnt necessary but you gonna need it to use all the power you have. Your best bet is do it in stages, get your motor to 400rwhp, then upgrade the drivetrain and suspension. and then work the motor over to get it done. Its not a cheap process thats for sure. The work required to get the engine to produce 600rwhp is gonna be like 10gs then you gonna spend the cash to get it to the ground. __________________

September 4th, 2008, 08:05 PM	#5
HMUSN Doc 1986 SVO 48.47@ 12.58 Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 37,050 iTrader: 11 reviews	basically put you have the modular motor which is the v8 motor in mustangs. it comes in 2 valve , 3v, and 4v the higher the number of valves the more power you start off with. 99-04 GT = 2v 05-current GT= 3v Cobra's and mach1's = 4v the 03-04 Cobras have a supercharges 4v then you have pushrod motors. these are the motors that came in the early 90's mustangs the 5.0's they only have one camshaft while the 2v/3v motor has 2 and the 4v motors have 4 __________________

September 4th, 2008, 08:20 PM	#7
HMUSN Doc 1986 SVO 48.47@ 12.58 Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 37,050 iTrader: 11 reviews	it's cheaper to buy. lol that's about it __________________

September 4th, 2008, 08:01 PM	#4
Brandiny7 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5 iTrader: 0 reviews	Thank you for the replies. When it comes to the engine, what's the difference between modular and not? Other than what seems to be a big price difference?

September 4th, 2008, 08:17 PM	#6
Brandiny7 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5 iTrader: 0 reviews	Hmm... if the 4v starts off with more power, what would be the reason to get a 2v instead of 4v (that's what they suggested I get).

September 4th, 2008, 08:26 PM	#8
Brandiny7 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5 iTrader: 0 reviews	That's really weird that they would suggest it then. Unless maybe the power wouldn't really be utilized tuned at lower compression for a blower?

September 4th, 2008, 08:33 PM	#9
HMUSN Doc 1986 SVO 48.47@ 12.58 Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 37,050 iTrader: 11 reviews	lets put it this way... a 2v is 260 crank HP with crappy heads. a 4v is 390 (under rated) crank HP with fully forged internals and the stock heads on this car will still outflow 2v heads if they was heavily ported and polished what do ya think is the better platform? __________________

September 5th, 2008, 08:22 AM	#10
Eagle2000GT I Post Entirely Way Too Much 2000 Mustang GT 12.73@111.36 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Shelbyville, IN Posts: 5,316 iTrader: 1 reviews	The 390 (underrated) is with a supercharger. The older 4v's were 320. __________________ ProCharger P-1SC, 9 psi, STD 396/383; Uncorrected 388/375; SAE 383/370 Mods list in Garage.

September 8th, 2008, 11:06 AM	#11
RayzerFish Newbie 1996 GT w/new Powerplant Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Daytona Beach area Florida Posts: 41 iTrader: 0 reviews	Yeah, but if you go from a 2v to 3 or 4 you would have to change your computer, wouldn't you? I did a motor swap recently on my '96 GT. I stayed 2v but stage 3. The new engine was a 2001 and the only issue I had with compatability was the second coolant temp sensor (for the computer) was different. The 4v engines I know only have 1 coolant temp sensor which leads me to believe you may have wiring harness and sesor issues if you were to change over to a 4v. I may be wrong though, I'm a newbe too.

September 9th, 2008, 08:52 PM	#12
1StockGT Enthusiast 2003 Cobra Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Newport News,VA Posts: 628 iTrader: 1 reviews	I say get an 03/04 Cobra motor and tranny with low miles. You would need the computer and wiring harness that goes with the motor. In the long run it would probably be cheaper depending on how much you get the motor for. You would need a fuel system upgrade, but I think it would be a pretty easy swap. The Cobra motors are easy to get good power out of too. I'm putting down 472rwhp, with belt slip around 4800rpms, with just your basic bolt ons, ported s/c, and a conservative tune. With a Whipple or a Kenne Bell you'd easily be able to make 600rwhp.

September 12th, 2008, 02:50 AM	#13
Brandiny7 Newbie Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 5 iTrader: 0 reviews	I left the place I was originally looking at to get this work done, and I'm in the process of finding a new one. In the mean time I've decided to have MMR (Modular Mustang Racing) build me a 5.0L 950 stroker 2v shortblock. I haven't decided if I am going to use them to install/upgrade everything else I'm getting done. It seems like I need to upgrade almost everything that's stock and not Roush to handle 600+rwhp from the new engine and turbo (quite a project). So, I am starting with the engine and turbo to give myself time to be light on it and break it in, then I am doing the rest in steps (tranny, rebuilding rear end, tires and possibly new rims, radiator and everything in between). I would appreciate any advice or thoughts.

September 25th, 2008, 11:03 AM	#15
RayzerFish Newbie 1996 GT w/new Powerplant Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Daytona Beach area Florida Posts: 41 iTrader: 0 reviews	I guess that may work, but without a gusset there wouldn't be much wall thickness for threads. I'd be affraid it wouldn't hold. I put the second sensor under the intake on the inside of the head. It's a dry hole, but seems to be working OK. I'm noy getting a check engine light or anything. Although, I had my dyno tune done yesterday and was really disappointed with the numbers. I'll post that in another thread, but I expected a lot more than 266 rwhp with the mods (& $$$$) I put into it. Tuner said he had a hard time getting to the 13:1 fuel ratio. Anyway, I'm going to look into your suggestion, and would still welcome any other alternatives to investigate. Thanks 97

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