[RayzerFish]

OK, After months of work and untold $$$$ I appear to have failed miserably. I had my Dyno Tune yesterday. Here are the mods.
Started with 96 GT
01 block forged innerds. 9.48:1 compression, Patriot Stage III 2v heads, Comp 270 cams, 75mm TB, LT headers w/x-pipe & flowmasters, elect water pump, 30 lb injectors. No trainy upgrades yet.
I was hoping for 350-400 rwhp, but instead got a jaw-dropping 266 rwhp 265 torq. That just don't sound right to me! That's roughly $57 per hp added!
Don't get me wrong, it runs awesome and has a lot more power than my stock engine did, but it's very disheartening figures after all that effort and money. I probably should have went with a 4v and changed the computer and harness. I guess my only hope is to blow it, or add nitrous (which I planned on anyway).

[DeMello]

mite be the heads....ive heard nothing but negatives with patriot

[00vabchgt]

actually, i would say that your compression ratio seems a little low for N/A...
what size dish is on the pistons? and how's your tune. were the cams degreed properly?

[00vabchgt]

most of the problems with the Patriot heads were from the fact that they bought bad castings from Ford. the problem was inherent to the way the heads were manufactured, not so much with what Patriot did with them...
5.0 recently did a build using Patriot heads...

[PapaSmurf]

that sucks man, id be pissed

[RayzerFish]

Originally Posted by 00vabchgt actually, i would say that your compression ratio seems a little low for N/A... what size dish is on the pistons? and how's your tune. were the cams degreed properly?

What exactly is degreeing the cams? I thought you only had to do that if there were clearance issues. I'm really interested in hearing more on this.

I think the pistons are flat. The motor was built when I got it, and the part number he gave me for the pistons (Pro Power MAN594200) don't turn up any search results.

I think he intended on blowing the motor which explains the stroke, but it's not in my budget. Which is why I'm thinking NO2.
And yeah SonicBlue, it does SUCK. And I am PISSED. But what are we to do.
Oh well, I needed to put a new motor in it anyway. I toasted the last one.

[93mustank]

Who put the motor together?

Friends 01 gt put down 255 and 288tq with just exhaust pulleys and a cai....

[SWEET2KSTANG]

stage 3 heads are too much for that set up n/a, probably got a little air stall issue
the motor will have to turn 7k+ to take any advantage of those heads
9.48 compression is a stock pi motor compression
stock pi intake wont make power that high in the rpm range
tuning could be a small issue as well

[RayzerFish]

Sorry, forgot to mention the Typhoon intake I got and CAI. What is air stall?
BTW 93, I've got an AODE. I bet your friends 01 has a stick with those figures. I'm starting to think maybe my trainy may have something to do with those numbers I got. I've had some issues with it for a while. It used to slip and I had it backflushed which fixed that, but it still isn't quite right. Takes a sec for it to get into gear and such.

[00vabchgt]

stock PI motor compression is actually 9.7:1...

[SWEET2KSTANG]

i am just stating a general comparisson for the compression ratio. the typhoon will loose power from 4k and below, its hasnt proven very well at all. air stall happens when the volume of air either stops. that intake and stage 3 heads are orientated for boost. that set up is made to move a large volume, but n/a that motor can not keep up the velocity.

[4vkiller]

I am assuming that your motor is stock bore? If that's correct, the stage 3 heads are hurting you a little. Let me explain: The only difference in Patriot's stage 2&3 heads is the valve sizing. The larger valves (especially the intake) will be shrouded even more than usual with the 1MM oversized valves. Your compression is also hurting you (badly) if you were looking for 350HP. I just can't see making much more than 310 or so on a 2V with that low of compression.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you had a good goal in mind, but didn't do the proper planning prior to spending money and building.

[4vkiller]

Oh, on another note, I forgot to discuss your cam selection. The Comp 270's are an excellent choice for all around performance. However, there are better choices for an all motor application.

[ModMustang97GT]

What is your redline set at. I have a feeling you are stopping about 1000-1500 rpm too soon to realize the potential of that build. Your heads are fine if you do nitrous and rev the crap out of it. They are just overkill for stock rpm and airflow.

[Trick Tuners]

It may be a little weak. What kind of dyno was it? Was the converter locked for the pulls? What was the octane and peak timing? Can you post up the dyno sheet and datalog? Is the compression good? I'd say there is no way you would ever have have 350hp with that combo. 300 maybe if you spin it up.

[snoel123]

"Degreeing the cams is every bit as important as a cam swap. Advancing and retarding the cams can yield huge power gains. It’s time consuming, but ultimately worth it."
From this Link

CarTech, Inc.: Browsing Building 4.6/5.4L Ford Horsepower on the Dyno [DOWNLOADABLE VERSION-COMPLETE BOOK]

Anyone who has ever degreed cams on a mod motor knows why you do it. The problem is the cam "gears" have several degrees slop when you bolt them down. So you can be a few degrees out. I have an issue of MM and FF (JULY 2006) where John Mihovetz talks about proper degreeing. Here is a link to comp's technical info on how it is done. Also note ford's camshaft keyways have 3 degrees of play.

http://www.compcams.com/Technical/In.../COMP4-103.pdf

Another note is you can gain back lost torque and power at lower rpm by advancing the camshafts a few degrees. I have only done this on 4V engines after reading this. The cam spec was 112 degrees. I set all cams and rotated to check piston to valve clearance, I then set to 111 and re-rotated. Then set to 110 and re-rotate. Everything was ok so I re-assembled. We did not dyno run this engine but according to MM&FF without advancement in a previous issue the cams actually lost power below 4500 rpm. The same cams advanced to 110 degrees actually made more power from 3000 rpm up.
The only problem with advancing is if the combination is really wild/high revving some power can be lost in upper rpm. Hope this helps.

[StangAddiction]

Man i have a very similar setup and im making 320+ rwhp... And i have 270 cams. They're not degreed. Im running them straight up 0*.


With that setup you should be at least over 300 whp.. Mustangs with just boltons are capable of 250whp... You're not going to get 350-400 rwhp. That's unrealistic with with the mods you have in all honesty. But to be making only 15-20 more rwhp than a bolton gt while you have ported heads and cams is a very low output on "ANY" dyno..

Degreeing the cams wont cost you "THAT" much power. Im running stock compression myself so that's not it either. Compression really affects the peak torque moreso than peak power from what i've seen. It could be a bad tune. Maybe the heads. I've never touched partiot heads so I wouldnt know. But those are some SH*TTY numbers.

[snoel123]

Also patriot performance stage III cylinder heads have a 46CC combustion chamber (in other words they are PI). With flattops your static compression ratio should be in the neighbourhood of 11-1.

[snoel123]

Also I didn't say degreeing was your problem, He just asked for info on it.

[snoel123]

Also degreeing doesn't affect peak hp as much as it affects you're power curve but since you know so much maybe you should enlighten us on exactly why his power levels are so low.