[NIghtShade]

I know that it is softer, Im just asking if a 250 rate coilover spring for example would "performance wise" equal my setup if I added LCA's and a bigger swaybar. (Since I wouldnt plan on having a higher spring rate and a harder ride than now)

[ModMustang97GT]

Well, if you switched to the Coil Overs. You would want to switch back to the stock sway bar. And the formula is about 1/3 of the force goes to the car from the stock spring type as apposed to the 105% that the coil over does. (the coil over is past the center of the wheel on the control arm).

So the Super Sports are around 450 lbs/in in the rear. So the 250 lb/inch will be about 50% stiffer. And probably ride about the same.

For your understear issue, there are alot of things going against you in this car. The weight ratio and the suspension. You want to make the front really stiff and the rear. The best thing to do is to force over steer with power, and to corner weight the car with adjustable coil overs or adjustable LCAs. A panhard bar will also help to make the back end more predictable. But its only once you have that adjustability and some possible weight reduction up front that you are truly going to be rid of the under stear.

[NIghtShade]

So I cannot just take the stiffer sway bar route and LCA route? If I was going to make the front lighter Id just get a tubular setup but Im not sure if I feel like going that all out. Besides...Im sure than damn procharger would put that weight right back.... That whole kit does weigh a good amount, one thing I hate about it.

[HBK_2007]

Originally Posted by NIghtShade So I cannot just take the stiffer sway bar route and LCA route? If I was going to make the front lighter Id just get a tubular setup but Im not sure if I feel like going that all out. Besides...Im sure than damn procharger would put that weight right back.... That whole kit does weigh a good amount, one thing I hate about it.

well if u loose 20 lbs from a tubular converison then add 30 lbs from the procharger, in reality ur only adding 10 lbs (30-20=10) vs just adding the 30 lbs from the procharger

[ModMustang97GT]

Some Adjustable Sway bar and LCA's will help. Make sure you get the adjustable height LCA's so you can do a little more corner weighting.

Those 2 things will help a lot, but I don't know if it would get rid of the understeer entirely. There is likely some amount you will just have to deal with. That being said, between the power of the motor and the handling mods that I have, I have very little under stear.

[NIghtShade]

Well, I'll get steeda's adjustable bar then, hopefully it will help. Should i just ditch the termi A-arms since the front is stiff enough?

[ReverendDexter]

The A-arms have nothing to do with how stiff the car is. Bushing material in the arms, maybe, but the arms themselves? Not so much.

[HBK_2007]

so if u make the front and rear the same level of stiffness, the handling will improve? how about the ride quality?

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by HBK_2007 so if u make the front and rear the same level of stiffness, the handling will improve? how about the ride quality?

Handling will become neutral (not under or oversteering), but it's totally divorced from ride quality.

You could make both ends relatively soft, and have neutral handling with a cushy ride, or you can make both ends relatively stiff, and have neutral handling that beats your kidneys to a pulp.

Though just because you have a neutral handling car doesn't mean that you have "better" handling. It's considered more ideal, but so is 50/50 weight distribution, and you see how closely Porsche follows that, hahaha.

[olskool]

Originally Posted by Patrick@LCR Don't forget the Maximum Motorsports site, Maximum Motorsports :: The Leader In Mustang Performance Suspension . Their prices aren't the best :cough cough:, but the technical writeups they have citing the stock suspension issues, and what their aftermarket parts do to help remedy that are great. If you're new to suspension parts, it's a great way to learn. They've also got some great installation guides in PDF format that easily guide you through the installs.

Now i didnt read the entire 11 pages so sue me. But good reading on the info.

I just wanted to post the we installed Billstien shocks and struts with Maximums coil over kit on our road race car and they were great really really good quality and great instrictions (which is why i hate steeda there instructions suck)

And some pepole have mentioned that the strut tower brace is a use less mod.

I would like to interject on that. if you have tublar K member arms and coilovers you will transfer much more stress on that particulare part of the car than stock as mentioned before the crappy desgin transfered a lot stress through the K member when you fix it you change that and a stut tower brace is a good idea at that point. But a real one desgined for the car if it has heim joints and two points of attachment its not real its for looks and in the way usually. the we have has 4 points and atachemnet and is soild (no moving parts at all) and designed for the car for racing purposes.

[olskool]

OK i have a question. I have been told and read that the cobra IRS is not worth the money for swap that the SRA will actually perfom better in the GT (i dont know what universe that makes sense in but its what i have heard)

Now our Road race car is a 01 GT and it turned 1.42 at our local track which is highly techincal. Alot of HP on this track dosent help you much at all as a matter fact it will get you in trouble quick

Now our GT at the time had the panard bar torque arm no upper links some mild shocks eibach springs front and rear and much bigger brakes all the way around

We have a 03 cobra also its had at the time a pulley kit and thats it. No suspenion mods at all and its a vert, it ran almost 10 seconds faste. Now again our track is technical not fast the HP shaved a few tenths on the straight but didnt make a 10 second diffrence

we swapped a cobra IRS (the panard bar and torque arm there about the same weight) with aluminum diff bushings diff brace and polyurethan everyhting and the MM coil overs

we also ditched the entire front suspension for the above mentioned mods Kmember a arms and coil overs.

we added a little HP to just to bring her in the 300 range. Were hoping to destroy the cobras time this year but everyone say we will actually go slower.

Now i have yet to see any evidinece at all that the IRS is worse then SRA and no logic in the world states it would be I have heard pepole tell us all this stuff then say they reffering to drag racing which piss's me off to end.

I have yet to see on GT with Cobra IRS in it and yet to see any comparsion so we kind of feel like guinea pigs here.

so what do you guys think faster slower or the same

sorry that i cant type

[ReverendDexter]

Same driver in both cars?

If so, were they equally familiar with both vehicles?

Case in point: I run an almost entirely stock '98 Cobra in autocross. Last weekend, my best run was 5 tenths faster than the fastest run done by a guy in a prepped C6 Z06. Does this mean that the stock 4-link suspension is better than the Corvette's fully independent? Or just that I knew my car better and how to extract more performance from it?

[NIghtShade]

"Or just that I knew my car better and how to extract more performance from it?" I think thats very true, know your own car. Probably where most people fail.

Ive also heard that SRA is better than IRS but than again the topic of the thread is "matching" the perfect setup.

[HBK_2007]

the general consciences in this thread is that the irs should be alot better (key word should) but its not due to engineering flaws and comprimises ford had to make to make the cobras and gt have the same chasis yet different types of rear suspension. personally i think ford should just grow a set with the next mustang generation and go irs all the way but thats just my opinion

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by NIghtShade "Or just that I knew my car better and how to extract more performance from it?" I think thats very true, know your own car. Probably where most people fail. Ive also heard that SRA is better than IRS but than again the topic of the thread is "matching" the perfect setup.

I think one thing to reiterate here is that a custom 3-link setup of the SRA is better than the IRS, *not* that the stock 4-link SRA setup is better than the IRS. The stock 4-link setup is utter trash, hahahaha.

My understanding for fox-chassis Mustang suspension: stock 4 link < stock IRS < modded IRS < custom 3-link. I don't really know enough about the S197 3-link to be able to place it in the above diagram, though my thought is that it would be slightly better than the stock Cobra IRS.

Another thing to remember: Grip != Handling! People can talk all they want about how many lateral Gs a certain suspension can hold, but that doesn't mean that the car is nimble or predictable - just that it can hold a steady-state corner.

[ModMustang97GT]

The Rev is correct. The custom 3 link set ups are superior to the irs set up. Only because the IRS that was designed for the Mustang had too many compromises that had to be made to maximize its suspension. Now on the highest level, there is debate, although generally the 3 link is generally perferred.

Take a look at the field at the AIX and AI events. The typical suspension set up for 05+ and 96-04 mustangs are generally the same.

Rear:
Coil Overs
PHB
Torque arm
Adjustable LCA's

Front:
Coil Overs
SLA set up (for AIX, not as much for AI)
bump steer.

They also have full cages, weight reduction, aero, wide tires, and slicks.


All of this ofcourse is pretty obvious. The largest difference between the cobra and the gt is 2 things. The built in SFC's on the cobra. Not sure your GT had that. And the cobra has about 100 lb/ft more torque. While you say its a technical track. Its not a down hill. The torque is going to make you leave that corner harder and faster than the gt will. Even with amazing grip, if you can't accelerate as well, your going to lose.

I bet if you got coil overs and adjustable rear sway bar, with a full cage. The handling would slaughter the cobra, but your still going to lose on power.

[NIghtShade]

Hey, I got a question about the adjustable rear sway bar... It says it only works with the stock bar??? Or could you make the eibach fit also?

STE-006-470 - Steeda Adjustable Rear Swaybar - For 79-04 Mustangs - Sway Bars - Mustang Performance Parts

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by NIghtShade Hey, I got a question about the adjustable rear sway bar... It says it only works with the stock bar??? Or could you make the eibach fit also? STE-006-470 - Steeda Adjustable Rear Swaybar - For 79-04 Mustangs - Sway Bars - Mustang Performance Parts

Something about that is misnamed... the description makes it sound more like adjustable links, or that it turns the stock bar into an adjustable one.

A true adjustable swaybar would replace the stock one, not add to it.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, though.

[NIghtShade]

Ya, its a hell of a lot cheaper than the real one...

MM 79-04 Mustang Adjustable Rear Swaybar (7/8 x .120 wall, bolt-in kit) [MMRSB-4] - $349.00 : Performance Parts - Ford Mustang - Cobra - Dodge Viper - Chevy Corvette - C6 - LS1

[ModMustang97GT]

The good adjustable one from steeda actually has a second bar that you can adjust, that helps the stock bar. I'm sure you could use the Eibach one instead, but it will be REALLY stiff. Stiffer than would be a good idea.

Now the kit that makes the stock one adjustable, that sounds dangerous. The Stock ones are good enough for normal driving, but have broken on some more extreme cars. You start building stress into that bar that wasn't there originally, you are tempting disaster. That bar was never designed for anything more than the stock configuration, so alot of added stress is risky to say the least.


On a seperate note, I am curious about your rear suspension. The handling should have felt loads better in the GT with the 3 link than the Stock cobra set up. Can you give me a run down of the full set up. Something is not adding up right. Please tell me the companies as well.