[Smoothgrandmama]

Ok im going to try to and get some front coilovers for now get a track day coming up and i dont wanna be sliding all over the place. i would like adjustable shocks since i like drag and i want to auto x. what do you guys recomend for a coilover shock combo? i was thinking mm coilovers with d spec shocks . . . .

[Smoothgrandmama]

?

[ReverendDexter]

Pick one.

Autocross and drag race have some very different suspension needs, and trying to split the difference is going to make you purchase parts that suck for both. Adjustable shocks are not going to be the magic bullet that makes your car work in both arenas.

[ModMustang97GT]

The Rev is right. Your can get a pretty decent all round shock in the D-Spec, but you are not guaranteed the best handling or best launch. The reason being, you can't change your spring rate. You can try and get an all round good set up, but its not going to exceptional at either. Fortunately, with coil overs, it will still be better than any set up you get with the modified macpherson strut.

[Smoothgrandmama]

Ok then let's go auto x.

What shocks should I nab for auto x?

or should I just keep my stock bilsteins and put coilovers on them?

[ModMustang97GT]

If you ahve bilstein HD's all round, that will be plenty. The reason you are sliding around on corners is the 4 link does not have a smooth release. Basically your 4 link is reaching its limit before your tires are. So when the 4 link snaps back to position during a corner, you lose traction and the car slides all retarded.

A PHB would take care of most of it, but getting rid of the upper Control arms and getting a Torque arm is the ultimate solution.

[HBK_2007]

does adding a phb help with drag racing tho?

[ModMustang97GT]

Definitely not. The PHB is 100% for lateral forces. It will do nothing to help you on the drag strip, only add weight. However, if you get a PHB and a torque arm, it is much better than the 4 link. The PHB is required for the Torque arm, and the Torque arm eliminates axle wind up. So if you plan to go all the way. It is great, but the red-neck 3 link with the 1 UCA removed and a PHB (like I have atm), will not help at the drag strip. But it corners well.

[HBK_2007]

Originally Posted by ModMustang97GT Definitely not. The PHB is 100% for lateral forces. It will do nothing to help you on the drag strip, only add weight. However, if you get a PHB and a torque arm, it is much better than the 4 link. The PHB is required for the Torque arm, and the Torque arm eliminates axle wind up. So if you plan to go all the way. It is great, but the red-neck 3 link with the 1 UCA removed and a PHB (like I have atm), will not help at the drag strip. But it corners well.

will the red neck 3rd link hurt tho? other than wieght

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by HBK_2007 will the red neck 3rd link hurt tho? other than wieght

It might. In removing one of the UCAs, you're relying on the remaining one for 100% of your axle-wrap control. Under a high torque drag launch, you may see slightly more wrap than you would with both UCAs.

I don't know any of this for a fact. I'm just looking at force, resisted by control arms, and then removing one of those resisting arms. On the other hand, the UCAs don't do a great job of axle-wrap control in the first place, so I don't even know that any potential difference would even be noticable.

In terms of weight, a PHB really isn't gonna hurt you at all - it's weight is low and far back. Might even help, as weight over the tires increases traction.

[Smoothgrandmama]

Originally Posted by ModMustang97GT If you ahve bilstein HD's all round, that will be plenty. The reason you are sliding around on corners is the 4 link does not have a smooth release. Basically your 4 link is reaching its limit before your tires are. So when the 4 link snaps back to position during a corner, you lose traction and the car slides all retarded. A PHB would take care of most of it, but getting rid of the upper Control arms and getting a Torque arm is the ultimate solution.

ummmmmmmmm I have an irs.....

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by Smoothgrandmama ummmmmmmmm I have an irs.....

Hrm... could be your rear alignment, then.

Unfortunately, all my performance driving experience has been with a live axle, so I can't really help you with settings other than the obvious - get some form of instant-read thermometer, and after a run, check the temps at three spots across the tire. If the outside edge of the tire is hotter than the inside, dial in more negative camber. If the inside is hotter, reduce negative camber. I do know that your rear toe setting will definitely affect the car's oversteer characteristics, but I don't know the specifics as to how toe-in versus toe-out will affect those dynamics.

I will say that at my last autocross, loose was FAST. If I was squirrely in the back end through the technical sections, I was up to 2 seconds faster than if I kept my tires underneath me.

Yeah, I don't get it either.

[HBK_2007]

Originally Posted by ReverendDexter I will say that at my last autocross, loose was FAST. If I was squirrely in the back end through the technical sections, I was up to 2 seconds faster than if I kept my tires underneath me. Yeah, I don't get it either.

not to bash u but maybe u werent taking the right line tight but u were loose?

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by HBK_2007 not to bash u but maybe u werent taking the right line tight but u were loose?

I don't consider that bashing at all, and you may be totally correct.

I do know that tires are at maximum grip at 6-10 degrees of slip angle, so I'm thinking that was part of it, too.

[ModMustang97GT]

Your IRS being too squirly sounds pretty typical. The answer is actually stupidly simple. You need fatter stickier tires. Unfortunately, unless you get coil overs and corner weight your car, your stuck trying to make up for bad weight distribution with traction. I would recommend stiffening the front as much as possible to make up for the stiffness in back. If the front end is stiffer than the rear, you tend to get under stear. If you are getting the opposite, the opposite is true. In our cars, the weight distribution is hard to fix without adding balast, so usually people are stiffening the rear to fix the under-steer. Your car appears to have the opposite. A possibly grippy, loos front end is holding well, while the rear is struggling to put down due to higher power and no weight, with very little play.

[TorqueO]

ok ...I have another question about rear suspension. I have been asking around what is better at the quarter mile: coil-overs with LCA's or LCA's with springs? I went a head and installed the coil overs in mt 01GT vert, a 220lb spring with 3way adj shock.
Went to a few shows and got mixed responses with the majority saying I should have installed the MM HD height adj LCA's and kept the Eibach in.
Asked around on a couple of sites also and didn't get enough answers to form a opinion.
Seems to me that its owner preference, would I be wrong in guessing that?

[ModMustang97GT]

Well you got a few things going on. In general the CO is better. Its lighter, has better response and is adjustable.

The flip side is, the LCA is adjustable too, and the spring is probably softer than the Coil over. In short, if the rear CO is too stiff, you won't be able to hook. Aside from that, I don't see any reason the CO would be bad. I would get rid of the 4 link now that you have the CO's and get a Torque arm. Then if anyone tells you, that you made the wrong choice, they are clueless.

Coil Overs are a step to lighter rear end and better wheel rates. Plus with a torque arm in place, the axle wind up is eliminated, creating a much more predictable, much stonger set up. It also helps move the thrust to the body move to a better place for weight shift and acceleration.

[shaggy rogers]

good info thanks.

[dcook_14]

I have a bunch of questions...

I know a panhard bar/torque arm combo while ditching the UCAs is great for handling and probably the route to go if you want to autocross. How does a panhard bar/torque arm combo perform while drag racing?

Would I be better off to go panhardbar/torque arm for drag racing or get new upper and lower control arms and keep the four link?

Would I need adjustable upper or lower control arms if I went coilover in the back?

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by dcook_14 I have a bunch of questions... I know a panhard bar/torque arm combo while ditching the UCAs is great for handling and probably the route to go if you want to autocross. How does a panhard bar/torque arm combo perform while drag racing?

My understanding is that the torque arm setup grips HARD for launching due to the instant center it provides. However if you're just doing drag racing, the additional cost over adjustable uppers and lowers probably isn't worth it for the gains you would see. The adjustable upppers and lowers will also allow you to change your setup based on the track condition.

Originally Posted by dcook_14 Would I be better off to go panhardbar/torque arm for drag racing or get new upper and lower control arms and keep the four link?

Between price and adjustability, I think you'd better off with the 4-link.

Originally Posted by dcook_14 Would I need adjustable upper or lower control arms if I went coilover in the back?

Depends on what part's adjustable. Usually adjustable LCAs allow you to adjust the height of the spring perch, which would be totally unnecessary with coilovers. Adjustable UCAs are usually adjustable length, which allows you to dial in your pinion angle, which I understand to be HUGE in terms of launch grip.

One thing I will add here is that if you go the 4-link route, make sure to get UCAs with spherical joints, not the kind with poly bushings. Polys are okay in the LCAs, though having a spherical joint on at least one side is definitely preferable.