The Official Suspension Guide

Jazzer The Cat · November 18th, 2008, 10:00 AM

I, as well as others here, would like to see you get away from the 4-link rear suspension and go pan-hard bar or Watts-Link and torque arm. The upper connectors back there have two functions and don't do either well.

It is higher cost to go the above, but worth it for much better handling/driving car.

Jazzer

ReverendDexter · November 18th, 2008, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by 97mustanggt

hey guys i bought upper and lower control arms for the my 97 cobra...they are Lakewood and i got them for 125...is that a good deal?

Depends on what your goal for the car is. If it's drag racing, sure. If it's handling, hock the uppers, as aftermarket uppers are worthless for a handling car (in truth, they actually degrade handling as they increase suspension bind).

97mustanggt · November 19th, 2008, 03:09 AM

well the car handles well with the shocks and springs it has....but the other day i notice one rear upper arm was loose i think the bushing just gave out...i was just going to buy the uppers but i got the lowers as well...i just wana launch better i spin out too much and cant really get the power to the pavement...

ModMustang97GT · November 20th, 2008, 07:07 PM

The Torque arm is a fantastic upgrade. However, it is a last in line type of upgrade. Most places will tell you that you want to do the Torque arm only after you have done LC's, and a Panhard Bar or Watts link. The issue is that the Torque arm allows a larger degree of movement in the up and down direction with minimal interference. While adding strength in several places. However, the thrust from your rear axle is still coming through your LC's and Torque arm. Essentially, the Torque arm is replacing the UC's in the roll of stopping axle wind up and sharing the thrust of the axle. The Panhard bar does the other job, preventing the side to side movement of your axle. The point is the Process should look like this for your rear suspension.

LC's
Panhard
Torque Arm ( get rid up upper Control Arms and Get new Rear Springs)

With a torque arm, you will need stiffer springs in the rear if you don't have coil overs. The Coil-Overs already have the extra sprig rate. But if you have springs, you will need new ones.

ModMustang97GT · November 20th, 2008, 07:20 PM

Basic Explanation of Stiffness and Resulting Drivability

There are several stiffness factors that add up to your overall handling. Idealy, your car would be perfectly flat, always have same force on all 4 tires and your tires would always be flat. And your wheels would dip into every bump on the road to get maximum traction at all times. Obviously this is impossible. So, here are the key point of your body.

Overall Stiffness - This, I will use to define the stifness of your car as a whole. This is what your are adding by getting Subframe Connectors. You are tying the front and rear of the car together better. This makes all parts work together to attain a goal. The ultimate solution to this is a 10 point roll Cage. A 10 point roll cage is a cage that attaches the Strut towers and rear shock towers to the central cage. A 6 point cage would be the central cage. It helps in stiffness a bit, but is mostly for safety. A 10 point stifens the entire car.

Front Stiffness - The stiffer your car is, the better it will handle, IF everything is stiff. The problem is, if you stiffen the front of your car a whole bunch, it won't adhere to the road as well. On a street car, this means, you won't absorb those potholes, your car won't lean as much. If your rear end is not as stiff, the Car will Understeer. IE: your front end will slide out before your rear end does in a hard corner.

Rear Stiffness - Your Rear stiffness works exactly like the front does. The stiffer it is the more the rear end will slide. When matched to the front, it will handle better, but when out of balance, you will have a hell of a time in corners. If you ever watch drift cars, you will notice the front end seems to be almost soft, it seems to glide a little more, absorbs the bumps. This gives them superior traction over the rear. The rear end, is SUPER STIFF. They are tied Down as tight as they can be. This makes the car have excellent front traction, and a rear end that feels like its constantly on ice. There is no play for the suspension to absorb the bumps and shifts of the road and the engine and driver. So the tires receive every bit of the energy. Its like taking the clutch out of the transmission, but for your tires. They are either not going, or they are goign 2000 RPM. Essentially, getting a drift car to peel out takes as much effort as it does to turn your car on.

Stiffness is the most important aspect of your car once you have gotten the power and suspension bugs figured out. When your front and rear are equally stiff or atleast set up to work together, your car will be a whole new machine. But done incorrectly, you will think your car will be worthless if not dangerous.

simon94 · December 9th, 2008, 06:03 PM

I've got weld pro stars 15by10 on /eagle gt 2's- which fit by reversing the crappy quad shocks & weld pro stars 15by3.5 on & vw skinnies with 1/2 inch spacers and getting urethane bushings up front on 97 gt. It fish-tails in the rain. I want to get a street suspension for better handling and cornering. I was thinking k-member a arms coil-overs(maybe D&D or qua1- can u mix and match k-member a arms and coil overs between these two brands?? is that a good idea to stop fish tailing? and what does anyone recomend for rear suspension ? the sub frames if i just get the bolt on ones shoud i get enuogh handling out of them? yah i want to keep my pro stars for steet use. Springs i guess i shoud go 250 lbs/12" -for street. I dont want to lower, its already sitting lower in the front and a little higher in the back just due to the weld wheels on stock suspension. Any tech advice please, Ive already been looking at all the forums. thanks simon

ModMustang97GT · December 16th, 2008, 04:31 PM

The problem is more likely that your rear end is softer than your front. The stock four link has a tendency to stretch the solid axle to the side until it reaches the traction limit of the rear tires, then the tires release and you fish tail. And its a really violent one, not like the smooth drifting kind.
Your problem with that can be solved with a pan hard bar. The problem is, the panhard bar will make you need to drop your Cat back and get dumps. The panhard bar will make the limit of your rear suspension's later grip, the tires, not the suspension it self. A panhard I should mention, is not a drag piece, it has a tendency to stiffen the rear suspension alot, so it won't squat as well as long as you keep the 4 link. And you can't get rid of that till you have a torque arm.

The cheapest and closest solution. That will still help your straight line and your turning. Is to get your self some new Good quality springs and shocks. They will help to keep the suspension in line better. You could also get a set of LCA's to help with your traction straight and curved line. Those upgrades will net you a huge difference. Unfortunately you will never be rid of the unpredictability of your back end in high speed turns untill you ditch the 4 link and go for a 3 link or 5 link set up. But that is going to run you about $1500 for parts on the back end alone. And if youve gone that far, you should do the front with the works, and then your really into some money.

Bottom line here is you need to decide straight line or road course. It sounds like you want straight line, so you are going to either spend alot, or get used to a loose rear end. The stiff suspension components for a road car don't work for a drag car, but you already knew that. The reason you are here is because you want to know what parts in what order will make you hook on the strip and not make you look like a retard in the rain.

Subframe connectors.
LCA's
SHocks & Springs

Then you get to decide. Go really hard core, or keep it cheap.

Hardcore: Torque arm, Panhard bar, tubular front with coil overs.

Cheap but still good: UCA's and maybe a tubular front with coil overs.

The Cheaper set up will still work well, just not as well as the Hardcore set up. Still leaps ahead of stock suspension. The Hardcore set up and going to hook like a fatchick on a corndog, and ride on rails, but its going to cost ya.

And I forgot. Can you mix and match. It might be possible. I dont' know for sure. You would have to call them and ask if they are. In general I wouldn't recommend it just because, even if they fit, it wasn't designed that way, so It might cause un-expected problems.

00gtCoolGuy · December 16th, 2008, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by ModMustang97GT

The problem is more likely that your rear end is softer than your front. The stock four link has a tendency to stretch the solid axle to the side until it reaches the traction limit of the rear tires, then the tires release and you fish tail. And its a really violent one, not like the smooth drifting kind.
Your problem with that can be solved with a pan hard bar. The problem is, the panhard bar will make you need to drop your Cat back and get dumps. The panhard bar will make the limit of your rear suspension's later grip, the tires, not the suspension it self. A panhard I should mention, is not a drag piece, it has a tendency to stiffen the rear suspension alot, so it won't squat as well as long as you keep the 4 link. And you can't get rid of that till you have a torque arm.

The cheapest and closest solution. That will still help your straight line and your turning. Is to get your self some new Good quality springs and shocks. They will help to keep the suspension in line better. You could also get a set of LCA's to help with your traction straight and curved line. Those upgrades will net you a huge difference. Unfortunately you will never be rid of the unpredictability of your back end in high speed turns untill you ditch the 4 link and go for a 3 link or 5 link set up. But that is going to run you about $1500 for parts on the back end alone. And if youve gone that far, you should do the front with the works, and then your really into some money.

Bottom line here is you need to decide straight line or road course. It sounds like you want straight line, so you are going to either spend alot, or get used to a loose rear end. The stiff suspension components for a road car don't work for a drag car, but you already knew that. The reason you are here is because you want to know what parts in what order will make you hook on the strip and not make you look like a retard in the rain.

Subframe connectors.
LCA's
SHocks & Springs

Then you get to decide. Go really hard core, or keep it cheap.

Hardcore: Torque arm, Panhard bar, tubular front with coil overs.

Cheap but still good: UCA's and maybe a tubular front with coil overs.

The Cheaper set up will still work well, just not as well as the Hardcore set up. Still leaps ahead of stock suspension. The Hardcore set up and going to hook like a fatchick on a corndog, and ride on rails, but its going to cost ya.

And I forgot. Can you mix and match. It might be possible. I dont' know for sure. You would have to call them and ask if they are. In general I wouldn't recommend it just because, even if they fit, it wasn't designed that way, so It might cause un-expected problems.

great post!

simon94 · December 18th, 2008, 04:27 PM

thanks ModMustang97GT this helps me big time. yah i do do look like a f!@#$% handicapped retard making a turn in the rain. rear uppers and lowers sounds good for now, eventually i'll get the panhard bar. If i get the panhard to i also have to get the torque arm- are they suposed to go together? and also get in future k member coil-overs etc. but what about sub-frames are those supposed to help? and shoud i get the bolt on or weld-on? for now i just want cheap ok handling/ cornering for daily street driving. later i'll go hard core. i see u got pi swap, do u know where i can pictures on how to do it? can rip off (pull out) npi heads with everything atached and with stock headers- do i have to be in safe mode?

simon94 · December 18th, 2008, 04:32 PM

shit i meant tdc ?

simon94 · December 18th, 2008, 05:32 PM

check this out its all about
stang supension
Late Model Mustang Suspension Basics
after reading this i think i''l just go for the lowers

If you use your car in open track or autocross competition, you'll probably want to leave the stock upper control arms alone and install only new lower control arms. The stock rubber bushings in the upper arms continue to allow the axle to articulate through its full range of motion in turns, while the new lower arms improve axle location. One popular lower arm design (illustrated below) uses segmented poly bushings on the chassis end and spherical bearings on the axle end. This combination has been found to improve rear axle location without any significant increase in suspension bind.

simon94 · December 19th, 2008, 07:45 PM

I found lakewood traction bars on ebay that look just like lowers but have these extra metal shackles that i gues u mount/bolt them up. could i just mount without shackles and just use them as lowers?

Lifts and loads the chassis for improved traction.
Utilizing axle torque to lift and load the chassis, these Traction Action lift bars from Lakewood force the rear tires downward to transfer power to the pavement, for improved traction and a straight-line launch. Features include adjustable load control struts for suspension preload, heavy-gauge steel tubing construction to prevent flex or bending, polyurethane bushings for positive suspension control and durability, and grease fittings for ease of lubrication.

ModMustang97GT · December 26th, 2008, 05:26 PM

I"d have to see a picture to be sure of what they are talking about. If you are going for a handling type set up. I would advise getting the lowers and then a pan hard bar. You don't need the torque arm until you get rid of the upper control arms. The Upper control arms do a couple of jobs as I have explained in the past. The Torque arm does one of them and the parhard bar does the other. The LCA's help. The torque arm does not require a torque arm to work and the panhard bar does not require the torque arem. The panhard bar is a piece you can get and use with your stock suspension. The torque arm is the piece that requires other things. Like upgraded LCA's and some form of horizonal location of the axle, aka. Panhard bar or watts link.

You asked about subframe connectors. Subframe connectors should be the first mod on everyones list. It will improve your handling, launch, control and safety. It is essentially the missing piece of your suspension that ford didn't want to spend the money on. However, in a true high performance car, it is required. The mustang chassis from the factory simply can not take the stresses of high performance driving for very long without deforming and warping.

Bolt in Subframe connectors are better than nothing, but most of them, when you read their instructions are really supposed to be welded in, they just give you the option to bolt them on untill you can get them welded in. Subframe connectors are quite litterally a couple of moddified pieces of steel that are shapped and designed to mount to the front and rear subframes of your mustang. You weld them in place to make your mustang actually have a single solid subframe. Otherwise you have 2 solid subframes and a flimsy wanna be unibody frame to connect the 2. It makes the car sloppy and weak.

If you install subframe connectors, a parnhard bar and new shocks/springs/sway bars or coil overs. You will have a car that can hang with 90% of the non supercars on the road. Put some more money into a tubular K member and A arms, a torque arm and good coil overs. You will have a car that can out corner a ferrari, and i'm not exadurating.

Jazzer The Cat · December 27th, 2008, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by ModMustang97GT

I"d have to see a picture to be sure of what they are talking about. If you are going for a handling type set up. I would advise getting the lowers and then a pan hard bar. You don't need the torque arm until you get rid of the upper control arms. The Upper control arms do a couple of jobs as I have explained in the past. The Torque arm does one of them and the parhard bar does the other. The LCA's help. The torque arm does not require a torque arm to work and the panhard bar does not require the torque arem. The panhard bar is a piece you can get and use with your stock suspension. The torque arm is the piece that requires other things. Like upgraded LCA's and some form of horizonal location of the axle, aka. Panhard bar or watts link..."

Huh?

The whole point is to get rid of the bind created by the UCA's in an pre-S197 Stang. To do this, you need to remove them altogether. If one was to install only a PHB or WL and LEAVE the UCA's, what have you accomplished... nothing! You have just added time/expense/weight to you ride. You will STILL bind on axle articulation and will likely just add additional binding issues. The PHB will cause some lateral axle deflection and fight the UCA's or the Watts-Link will not be allowed to move freely as the UCA's will fight it as well. You need BOTH the PHB or WL AND torque-arm to be free of the UCA's.

I am in 100% agreement about sub-frame connectors. Get them welded in place and have uppers installed if you can afford to do so.

Jazzer

97mustanggt · December 27th, 2008, 03:14 PM

i just installed the upper/lower lakewood rear control arms on my car...it was tough but the results well worth it...

ReverendDexter · December 27th, 2008, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by Jazzer The Cat

Huh?

The whole point is to get rid of the bind created by the UCA's in an pre-S197 Stang. To do this, you need to remove them altogether. If one was to install only a PHB or WL and LEAVE the UCA's, what have you accomplished... nothing! You have just added time/expense/weight to you ride. You will STILL bind on axle articulation and will likely just add additional binding issues. The PHB will cause some lateral axle deflection and fight the UCA's or the Watts-Link will not be allowed to move freely as the UCA's will fight it as well. You need BOTH the PHB or WL AND torque-arm to be free of the UCA's.

I am in 100% agreement about sub-frame connectors. Get them welded in place and have uppers installed if you can afford to do so.

Jazzer

Exactly! Reps, man.

Jazzer The Cat · December 27th, 2008, 09:40 PM

^ Which ones did you purchase?

I will be honest and say I am not a fan Lakewood parts as they don't have Heim (swivel) joints on at least one end. None that I have seen anyway. The issue with UCA's and LCA's, at is pertains to the 4-link suspension, is the lack of articulation they provide.

For example, these:

.... and these:

Would be on my no-no list, I am afraid

. They will be somewhat of an improvement on mild corners where body roll is limited by lack of velocity and NO bumps, but will hinder axle articulation and create some serious bind on hard turns. They will likely be an improvement on straight line acceleration. For corners, I would rather have the stock set-up than those as the poly bushings are the enemy with those parts.

I would rather see these:

WITH these:

...and these:

This would be the second best option short of PHB or Watts-Link with torque-arm installation. If you have purchased the UCA's in the first pic, or similar design, I would recommend installing the swivels in the 4th pic down. They should fit and will allow MUCH better articulation of the axle and improve launching AND cornering. They will, however, introduce more NVH to your ride. Not a huge amount, but you will notice some I am sure.

HTH

Jazzer

97mustanggt · December 27th, 2008, 10:01 PM

i got these they are $500 of autozone and i got them for $125 so i coudnt pass up the deal...so far i love them...i cant wate to install my new clutch and see how these babies are gonna help me hook...

Jazzer The Cat · December 28th, 2008, 09:46 AM

Haven't ever used that smiley

Congrats, hope your new clutch gives you the maaaaaaad hook-up!

Jazzer pulling for his pepes

97mustanggt · December 28th, 2008, 02:00 PM

haha sorry for tha bad link...but they are squared unlike those round skinny tube looking ones...but thanks man i really do hope it help me stick the power to the floor....up next sub-frame connectors...

November 18th, 2008, 10:00 AM	#21
Jazzer The Cat Hardcore Enthusiast 2002 s281 19.34@42.259 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Marin County Posts: 1,317	I, as well as others here, would like to see you get away from the 4-link rear suspension and go pan-hard bar or Watts-Link and torque arm. The upper connectors back there have two functions and don't do either well. It is higher cost to go the above, but worth it for much better handling/driving car. Jazzer __________________ '02 GR-40/SLA s281 #0014 HD video from Jazzer The Ego Choosing a new tire ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

November 20th, 2008, 07:07 PM	#24
ModMustang97GT Hardcore Enthusiast 1997 Mustang GT Faster than an s4 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,315	The Torque arm is a fantastic upgrade. However, it is a last in line type of upgrade. Most places will tell you that you want to do the Torque arm only after you have done LC's, and a Panhard Bar or Watts link. The issue is that the Torque arm allows a larger degree of movement in the up and down direction with minimal interference. While adding strength in several places. However, the thrust from your rear axle is still coming through your LC's and Torque arm. Essentially, the Torque arm is replacing the UC's in the roll of stopping axle wind up and sharing the thrust of the axle. The Panhard bar does the other job, preventing the side to side movement of your axle. The point is the Process should look like this for your rear suspension. LC's Panhard Torque Arm ( get rid up upper Control Arms and Get new Rear Springs) With a torque arm, you will need stiffer springs in the rear if you don't have coil overs. The Coil-Overs already have the extra sprig rate. But if you have springs, you will need new ones. __________________ Aztec Gold 97GT. MM CC Plates, Panhard Bar, SFC's & Tower Brace Eibach Sway Bars H&R Race Springs/Bilstein Shocks MAC CAI, LT's, Catted H and Pro-Dumps KB Boost-a-Spark PI Swap Spun Main Bearing... Author of The Official Suspension Guide

November 20th, 2008, 07:20 PM	#25
ModMustang97GT Hardcore Enthusiast 1997 Mustang GT Faster than an s4 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,315	Basic Explanation of Stiffness and Resulting Drivability There are several stiffness factors that add up to your overall handling. Idealy, your car would be perfectly flat, always have same force on all 4 tires and your tires would always be flat. And your wheels would dip into every bump on the road to get maximum traction at all times. Obviously this is impossible. So, here are the key point of your body. Overall Stiffness - This, I will use to define the stifness of your car as a whole. This is what your are adding by getting Subframe Connectors. You are tying the front and rear of the car together better. This makes all parts work together to attain a goal. The ultimate solution to this is a 10 point roll Cage. A 10 point roll cage is a cage that attaches the Strut towers and rear shock towers to the central cage. A 6 point cage would be the central cage. It helps in stiffness a bit, but is mostly for safety. A 10 point stifens the entire car. Front Stiffness - The stiffer your car is, the better it will handle, IF everything is stiff. The problem is, if you stiffen the front of your car a whole bunch, it won't adhere to the road as well. On a street car, this means, you won't absorb those potholes, your car won't lean as much. If your rear end is not as stiff, the Car will Understeer. IE: your front end will slide out before your rear end does in a hard corner. Rear Stiffness - Your Rear stiffness works exactly like the front does. The stiffer it is the more the rear end will slide. When matched to the front, it will handle better, but when out of balance, you will have a hell of a time in corners. If you ever watch drift cars, you will notice the front end seems to be almost soft, it seems to glide a little more, absorbs the bumps. This gives them superior traction over the rear. The rear end, is SUPER STIFF. They are tied Down as tight as they can be. This makes the car have excellent front traction, and a rear end that feels like its constantly on ice. There is no play for the suspension to absorb the bumps and shifts of the road and the engine and driver. So the tires receive every bit of the energy. Its like taking the clutch out of the transmission, but for your tires. They are either not going, or they are goign 2000 RPM. Essentially, getting a drift car to peel out takes as much effort as it does to turn your car on. Stiffness is the most important aspect of your car once you have gotten the power and suspension bugs figured out. When your front and rear are equally stiff or atleast set up to work together, your car will be a whole new machine. But done incorrectly, you will think your car will be worthless if not dangerous. __________________ Aztec Gold 97GT. MM CC Plates, Panhard Bar, SFC's & Tower Brace Eibach Sway Bars H&R Race Springs/Bilstein Shocks MAC CAI, LT's, Catted H and Pro-Dumps KB Boost-a-Spark PI Swap Spun Main Bearing... Author of The Official Suspension Guide

December 16th, 2008, 04:31 PM	#27
ModMustang97GT Hardcore Enthusiast 1997 Mustang GT Faster than an s4 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,315	The problem is more likely that your rear end is softer than your front. The stock four link has a tendency to stretch the solid axle to the side until it reaches the traction limit of the rear tires, then the tires release and you fish tail. And its a really violent one, not like the smooth drifting kind. Your problem with that can be solved with a pan hard bar. The problem is, the panhard bar will make you need to drop your Cat back and get dumps. The panhard bar will make the limit of your rear suspension's later grip, the tires, not the suspension it self. A panhard I should mention, is not a drag piece, it has a tendency to stiffen the rear suspension alot, so it won't squat as well as long as you keep the 4 link. And you can't get rid of that till you have a torque arm. The cheapest and closest solution. That will still help your straight line and your turning. Is to get your self some new Good quality springs and shocks. They will help to keep the suspension in line better. You could also get a set of LCA's to help with your traction straight and curved line. Those upgrades will net you a huge difference. Unfortunately you will never be rid of the unpredictability of your back end in high speed turns untill you ditch the 4 link and go for a 3 link or 5 link set up. But that is going to run you about $1500 for parts on the back end alone. And if youve gone that far, you should do the front with the works, and then your really into some money. Bottom line here is you need to decide straight line or road course. It sounds like you want straight line, so you are going to either spend alot, or get used to a loose rear end. The stiff suspension components for a road car don't work for a drag car, but you already knew that. The reason you are here is because you want to know what parts in what order will make you hook on the strip and not make you look like a retard in the rain. Subframe connectors. LCA's SHocks & Springs Then you get to decide. Go really hard core, or keep it cheap. Hardcore: Torque arm, Panhard bar, tubular front with coil overs. Cheap but still good: UCA's and maybe a tubular front with coil overs. The Cheaper set up will still work well, just not as well as the Hardcore set up. Still leaps ahead of stock suspension. The Hardcore set up and going to hook like a fatchick on a corndog, and ride on rails, but its going to cost ya. And I forgot. Can you mix and match. It might be possible. I dont' know for sure. You would have to call them and ask if they are. In general I wouldn't recommend it just because, even if they fit, it wasn't designed that way, so It might cause un-expected problems. __________________ Aztec Gold 97GT. MM CC Plates, Panhard Bar, SFC's & Tower Brace Eibach Sway Bars H&R Race Springs/Bilstein Shocks MAC CAI, LT's, Catted H and Pro-Dumps KB Boost-a-Spark PI Swap Spun Main Bearing... Author of The Official Suspension Guide Last edited by ModMustang97GT : December 16th, 2008 at 04:55 PM.

December 26th, 2008, 05:26 PM	#33
ModMustang97GT Hardcore Enthusiast 1997 Mustang GT Faster than an s4 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,315	I"d have to see a picture to be sure of what they are talking about. If you are going for a handling type set up. I would advise getting the lowers and then a pan hard bar. You don't need the torque arm until you get rid of the upper control arms. The Upper control arms do a couple of jobs as I have explained in the past. The Torque arm does one of them and the parhard bar does the other. The LCA's help. The torque arm does not require a torque arm to work and the panhard bar does not require the torque arem. The panhard bar is a piece you can get and use with your stock suspension. The torque arm is the piece that requires other things. Like upgraded LCA's and some form of horizonal location of the axle, aka. Panhard bar or watts link. You asked about subframe connectors. Subframe connectors should be the first mod on everyones list. It will improve your handling, launch, control and safety. It is essentially the missing piece of your suspension that ford didn't want to spend the money on. However, in a true high performance car, it is required. The mustang chassis from the factory simply can not take the stresses of high performance driving for very long without deforming and warping. Bolt in Subframe connectors are better than nothing, but most of them, when you read their instructions are really supposed to be welded in, they just give you the option to bolt them on untill you can get them welded in. Subframe connectors are quite litterally a couple of moddified pieces of steel that are shapped and designed to mount to the front and rear subframes of your mustang. You weld them in place to make your mustang actually have a single solid subframe. Otherwise you have 2 solid subframes and a flimsy wanna be unibody frame to connect the 2. It makes the car sloppy and weak. If you install subframe connectors, a parnhard bar and new shocks/springs/sway bars or coil overs. You will have a car that can hang with 90% of the non supercars on the road. Put some more money into a tubular K member and A arms, a torque arm and good coil overs. You will have a car that can out corner a ferrari, and i'm not exadurating. __________________ Aztec Gold 97GT. MM CC Plates, Panhard Bar, SFC's & Tower Brace Eibach Sway Bars H&R Race Springs/Bilstein Shocks MAC CAI, LT's, Catted H and Pro-Dumps KB Boost-a-Spark PI Swap Spun Main Bearing... Author of The Official Suspension Guide

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November 19th, 2008, 03:09 AM	#23
97mustanggt Enthusiast 97GT & 97Snake T.B.A Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Richgrove, Ca Posts: 988	well the car handles well with the shocks and springs it has....but the other day i notice one rear upper arm was loose i think the bushing just gave out...i was just going to buy the uppers but i got the lowers as well...i just wana launch better i spin out too much and cant really get the power to the pavement...

December 9th, 2008, 06:03 PM	#26
simon94 Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 93	I've got weld pro stars 15by10 on /eagle gt 2's- which fit by reversing the crappy quad shocks & weld pro stars 15by3.5 on & vw skinnies with 1/2 inch spacers and getting urethane bushings up front on 97 gt. It fish-tails in the rain. I want to get a street suspension for better handling and cornering. I was thinking k-member a arms coil-overs(maybe D&D or qua1- can u mix and match k-member a arms and coil overs between these two brands?? is that a good idea to stop fish tailing? and what does anyone recomend for rear suspension ? the sub frames if i just get the bolt on ones shoud i get enuogh handling out of them? yah i want to keep my pro stars for steet use. Springs i guess i shoud go 250 lbs/12" -for street. I dont want to lower, its already sitting lower in the front and a little higher in the back just due to the weld wheels on stock suspension. Any tech advice please, Ive already been looking at all the forums. thanks simon

December 18th, 2008, 04:27 PM	#29
simon94 Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 93	thanks ModMustang97GT this helps me big time. yah i do do look like a f!@#$% handicapped retard making a turn in the rain. rear uppers and lowers sounds good for now, eventually i'll get the panhard bar. If i get the panhard to i also have to get the torque arm- are they suposed to go together? and also get in future k member coil-overs etc. but what about sub-frames are those supposed to help? and shoud i get the bolt on or weld-on? for now i just want cheap ok handling/ cornering for daily street driving. later i'll go hard core. i see u got pi swap, do u know where i can pictures on how to do it? can rip off (pull out) npi heads with everything atached and with stock headers- do i have to be in safe mode?

December 18th, 2008, 04:32 PM	#30
simon94 Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 93	shit i meant tdc ?

December 18th, 2008, 05:32 PM	#31
simon94 Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 93	check this out its all about stang supension Late Model Mustang Suspension Basics after reading this i think i''l just go for the lowers If you use your car in open track or autocross competition, you'll probably want to leave the stock upper control arms alone and install only new lower control arms. The stock rubber bushings in the upper arms continue to allow the axle to articulate through its full range of motion in turns, while the new lower arms improve axle location. One popular lower arm design (illustrated below) uses segmented poly bushings on the chassis end and spherical bearings on the axle end. This combination has been found to improve rear axle location without any significant increase in suspension bind.

December 19th, 2008, 07:45 PM	#32
simon94 Regular Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 93	I found lakewood traction bars on ebay that look just like lowers but have these extra metal shackles that i gues u mount/bolt them up. could i just mount without shackles and just use them as lowers? Lifts and loads the chassis for improved traction. Utilizing axle torque to lift and load the chassis, these Traction Action lift bars from Lakewood force the rear tires downward to transfer power to the pavement, for improved traction and a straight-line launch. Features include adjustable load control struts for suspension preload, heavy-gauge steel tubing construction to prevent flex or bending, polyurethane bushings for positive suspension control and durability, and grease fittings for ease of lubrication.

December 27th, 2008, 03:14 PM	#35
97mustanggt Enthusiast 97GT & 97Snake T.B.A Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Richgrove, Ca Posts: 988	i just installed the upper/lower lakewood rear control arms on my car...it was tough but the results well worth it... __________________ *No, your Honda cant do this “I've worked with the SVT guys for several years now, and I know they have the guts, the talent and the passion to deliver the best performance Mustangs ever,” ~Carroll Shelby

December 27th, 2008, 09:40 PM	#37
Jazzer The Cat Hardcore Enthusiast 2002 s281 19.34@42.259 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Marin County Posts: 1,317	^ Which ones did you purchase? I will be honest and say I am not a fan Lakewood parts as they don't have Heim (swivel) joints on at least one end. None that I have seen anyway. The issue with UCA's and LCA's, at is pertains to the 4-link suspension, is the lack of articulation they provide. For example, these: .... and these: Would be on my no-no list, I am afraid . They will be somewhat of an improvement on mild corners where body roll is limited by lack of velocity and NO bumps, but will hinder axle articulation and create some serious bind on hard turns. They will likely be an improvement on straight line acceleration. For corners, I would rather have the stock set-up than those as the poly bushings are the enemy with those parts. I would rather see these: WITH these: ...and these: This would be the second best option short of PHB or Watts-Link with torque-arm installation. If you have purchased the UCA's in the first pic, or similar design, I would recommend installing the swivels in the 4th pic down. They should fit and will allow MUCH better articulation of the axle and improve launching AND cornering. They will, however, introduce more NVH to your ride. Not a huge amount, but you will notice some I am sure. HTH Jazzer __________________ '02 GR-40/SLA s281 #0014 HD video from Jazzer The Ego Choosing a new tire ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

December 27th, 2008, 10:01 PM	#38
97mustanggt Enthusiast 97GT & 97Snake T.B.A Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Richgrove, Ca Posts: 988	i got these they are $500 of autozone and i got them for $125 so i coudnt pass up the deal...so far i love them...i cant wate to install my new clutch and see how these babies are gonna help me hook... __________________ *No, your Honda cant do this “I've worked with the SVT guys for several years now, and I know they have the guts, the talent and the passion to deliver the best performance Mustangs ever,” ~Carroll Shelby

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December 28th, 2008, 09:46 AM	#39
Jazzer The Cat Hardcore Enthusiast 2002 s281 19.34@42.259 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Marin County Posts: 1,317	Haven't ever used that smiley Congrats, hope your new clutch gives you the maaaaaaad hook-up! Jazzer pulling for his pepes __________________ '02 GR-40/SLA s281 #0014 HD video from Jazzer The Ego Choosing a new tire ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

December 28th, 2008, 02:00 PM	#40
97mustanggt Enthusiast 97GT & 97Snake T.B.A Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Richgrove, Ca Posts: 988	haha sorry for tha bad link...but they are squared unlike those round skinny tube looking ones...but thanks man i really do hope it help me stick the power to the floor....up next sub-frame connectors... __________________ *No, your Honda cant do this “I've worked with the SVT guys for several years now, and I know they have the guts, the talent and the passion to deliver the best performance Mustangs ever,” ~Carroll Shelby

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