[simon94]

what do guys think of this setup its for a fox body would this work for a 97gt?


My perfect combo is Lakewood 70/30 struts and 50/50 shocks with BBK progressive sport springs. A friend told me this combination would work well on my GT. It's a weekend car. I reluctantly took off the Bilsteins and Eibach springs and "sprung" for the cost of the current combo and I was amazed at the improved response. Didn't hurt to change the upper & lower rear control arms - Hotchkiss. I go over railroad track crossings at 45, without slowing and hardly feel the bumps.

By the way, the springs lowered the car enough for me - but then, I want the ground effects to NOT contact the ground.

[simon94]

i copied this from diferent forum

"C" springs, on the other hand, are much more comparable to tokico HP struts/shocks. great performance to dollar ratio.

"C" springs have 650 lb/in rate in front (plenty for me). they also do not put the car in the weeds like H&R do. forget about the brand names, just go with the spring rate and drop appropriate for the car.

[ModMustang97GT]

Simon, coil over spring rates are MUCH lower since they are located much closer to the wheels. The spring rates are <length of spring/<lbs. per inch>

so 14/150 would be 150 pounds per inch, 14 inch spring. This is a drag style coil over. 150 pounds per inch is very low for a road race car.

[simon94]

they told me that they are fully adjastable so i can lower or raise the car as much as i want to, i asked if they had street spring rates, they responded--12-250 for the front and 12-170 for the rear. i believe these are specific rate springs. the front springs can fit any strut, whereas the rear needs certain shocks. lakewoods is one of the ones we recommend.

they also replied Dear blackcob,

No lake wood is not a strictly drag shock. they are considered a street strip shock. i also have qa1 adjust front struts and rear shocks. but the coil over kit for the rear will not fit the qa1 shocks for the rear. i also sell the lakwood 90/10 and 70/30 struts for the front. what are your plans for the car? what would you like to improve?


- uprproductsonline

[simon94]

ModMustang97GT where did u buy your
Eibach Sway Bars
H&R Race Springs/Bilstein Shocks and much did u pay for them and how much did it lower your 97 gt?

did u get front and rear eibach sway bars?
and what's thickness front and rear eibach sway bars in mm? and are they the hollow tubular or solid kind?
what kind wheels ant tires are u running
how's your over all handling?
d ou have any pictures on how your car sits?

[simon94]

by the way i finally got specs for the ford racing bullit m-5400 a handling kit from stangsuspension.com the springs are not c springs they are in-between b and c at 600lbs spring rate while the c's are at 650lbs, the sway bars are crap at 20mm front tubular hollow and 21mm rear which my stock one's are better at 30mm front 23mm rear and the tockico's are the black base ones.

[simon94]

here's a little chart for everyone, now which springs should get?
i think the c springs will make the car a little too high?
the h&r probably too low

maybe the steeda Steeda Sport Springs (79-04 Mustangs)
650 (linear)
200-250 (progressive, solid axle)
will work perfect

Stock Spring Rates
Model/Year Front Spring Rate (lb/in) Rear Spring Rate (lb/in)
Mustang GT/V6 Coupe 1994-2004 450 (linear) 210 (linear, solid axle)
Mustang GT/V6 Vert. 1994-2004 400 (linear) 185 (linear, solid axle)
Mustang Cobra Coupe 1999-2001 500 (linear) 475 (linear, IRS)
Mustang Cobra Coupe 2003-2004 600 (linear) 600 (linear, IRS)
Mustang Cobra Vert. 2003-2004 500 (linear) 470 (linear, IRS)
Mustang Mach1 Coupe 2003-2004 600 (linear) 250 (linear, solid axle)
Mustang Bullitt Coupe 2001-20022 600 (linear) 250 (linear, solid axle)

Aftermarket Spring Rates
Manufacturer/Part Info Front Spring Rate (lb/in) Rear Spring Rate (lb/in)
Ford Racing B Springs (M5300B) 425-530 (progressive) 200-300 (progressive, solid axle)
Ford Racing C Springs (M5300C) 650 (linear) 200-300 (progressive, solid axle)
Ford Racing F Springs (M5300F) 460-570 (progressive) 170-310 (progressive, solid axle)
Ford Racing G Springs (M5300G) 500-570 (progressive) 170-310 (progressive, solid axle)
Eibach Pro-Kit Springs (94-04 Mustangs) 425-530 (progressive) 200-300 (progressive, solid axle)
Eibach Sportline Springs (79-04 Mustangs) 425-630 (progressive) 140-295 (progressive, solid axle)
H&R Sport Springs (94-04 Mustangs) 490-575 (progressive) 205-250 (progressive, solid axle)
H&R Sport Springs (99-04 Cobra) 700-760 (progressive) 685 (linear, IRS)
H&R Super Sport Springs (94-04 Mustangs) 700-760 (progressive) 275-300 (progressive, solid axle)
H&R Race Springs (79-04 Mustangs) 750-850 (progressive) 260-280 (progressive, solid axle)
H&R Race Springs (99-04 Cobra) 750-850 (progressive) 770 (linear, IRS)
Steeda Sport Springs (79-04 Mustangs) 650 (linear) 200-250 (progressive, solid axle)
Steeda Sport Springs (03-04 Cobra) 720-780 (progressive) 650-790 (progressive, IRS)
Steeda Competition Springs (79-04 Mustangs) 750-850 (progressive) 250 (linear, solid axle)
StangSuspension Springs (94-04 Mustangs)

[simon94]

does everyone agree with this?

Cutting springs is bad news. Sure, it'll make the car ride lower, but with the stock spring rates, and 2 less inches of suspension travel, hit a bump and bad things happen. That's if the springs are cut just right. I know a lot of rice boys who try this or the spring clamp things. Doesn't really work.
If you want to lower it, get a good set of after market springs. Personally I'm using Steeda Sport Springs ($189).
Also, lowering 2 inches is a bit much. 1 1/4 or maybe 1 1/2 is all you really want to go. 1 1/4 doesn't sound like all that much, but it is when you see it.
Also, when you lower it, its a good idea to get a set of CC plates. The stock plates do not allow anywhere near enough alignment adjustment, and you will destroy your tires with 'em.

[simon94]

I guess these are cheap crap? and the blue tokico hp's are a little better?

US $129.00
GABRIEL shocks are precision engineered for the ultimate in performance and comfort. This is a set of 4 BRAND NEW in the box Gabriel shocks/struts , 2 front , 2 rear , to fit 1994 to 2004 Ford Mustang . These shocks will transform your car into an awesome handling and smoother riding machine. Day and night difference over stock.

[simon94]

KYB GR2 cost less than tockico's hp's but are they any good?

KYB GR2 STRUTS SHOCKS =$177.90
tockico's hp's=$261.80

[simon94]

has anyone heard of springtech shocks struts $109.95?

[Jazzer The Cat]

That has got to be a new world record

8 posts in a row Simon, I think you should start with some good MM sub-frame connectors and will be the best start to a nice handling ride. Then, contact someone at MM and talk with one of their techs about your goals and budget.

I hear nothing but good things about MM so you should get some good info and post what you are recommended on here. I am sure MM97GT, The Good Reverend will be happy to critique what you are looking to purchase. I will throw in my $.02 and you will be going down the right path.

HTH

Jazzer

[simon94]

gap between rear fender to tire i got about 3 inches of gap.
front about 4 inches.
so i should have no problems getting lowering springs that lower 1.25" front and 1" rear?

[DickH]

yeah, go for it.

[ReverendDexter]

Originally Posted by Jazzer The Cat That has got to be a new world record 8 posts in a row Simon, I think you should start with some good MM sub-frame connectors and will be the best start to a nice handling ride. Then, contact someone at MM and talk with one of their techs about your goals and budget. I hear nothing but good things about MM so you should get some good info and post what you are recommended on here. I am sure MM97GT, The Good Reverend will be happy to critique what you are looking to purchase. I will throw in my $.02 and you will be going down the right path. HTH Jazzer

+1 on talking to Maximum Motorsports.

However, I should throw this out here: I know *nothing* about drag race setups (well, other than the obvious: maximum grip under acceleration). I can give a little bit of help in terms of what will give better weight transfer, or what will work better for grip under acceleration. Any suggestion I can make is going to be through the handling bias, and as such, there's probably a better drag race specific part/adjustment/whatever for you.

For spring rates, my rule of thumb is the softest spring that you can get away with. You shouldn't use stiff springs to make up for slop elsewhere (i.e. bushing deflection), you should fix the slop, THEN take up the remaining slack with springs.

[simon94]

thanks for all your guys help i found this web page that answers most of my dumb questions
Fitting Weld Racing Pro Stars on a 1995 Mustang GT

I have a lot of people ask about my wheel/tire combination, so I hope this page will answer a lot of the questions I am frequently asked. I am quite happy with the look my car has and its stance.



NOTES
One thing to note is that my car is lowered about 1.5" in the front and 1.25" or so inches in the back due to my H&R Racing springs. Any clearances I have may be different depending on the ride height of your car.



Wheel Studs - Tires - Wheels - Fitment

WHEEL STUDS (top)
You pretty much have to have the 3" extended lugs to run any weld wheel. It is a LOT thicker than the stock type wheels. You can get away with it, but it didn't look very safe to me. I didn't like it. My extended lugs came with my Moser axles.

The fronts take a bit more work. The lugs are in the hub, not the rotor, so there is more work involved to get them out. They hammer right out, but the new ones need to be pressed in. I used some old lugnuts and an impact wrench and a bunch of washers to get mine in. Unfortunately I was unable to find the proper knurl size, so I went up one size. I didn't want to pay $30 for the right drill bit and I needed to get them in to go to a race, so I attempted it with a dremel. It took a LONG time. It would be best to get the right size knurl.

TIRES (top)

The rear street tires are 295/50-15 BFGoodrich Radial T/As. I got them on closeout from Sears really cheap. They are fine as a street tire, but have zero street traction in my car. That's okay - I like them for the look. At the track they do okay though - I've cut low 1.9 sixty foot times with them which is pretty decent for a non-drag-radial street tire. These tires are about 26.6" tall, which is almost an inch taller than the 25.7" tall stock tires. I won't go into how much wider they are! :-)

The rear track tires are 8.5x26-15 Mickey Thompson ET Drag "true" slicks. I've had them for 4 seasons and counting and they still work great. For looks, I wish I had gone for a 10x26 tire since the 8.5s look so small, but they seem to work quite well. To date, I've run a large number of very low 1.6 sixty foots on them with a 5 speed and an automatic. That's with a basically totally stock suspension and no chassis stiffening too. On a well prepared car, they should easily get into the low 1.5s.

The front tires are generic 165-R15 skinnies that I got for around $90/pair from BB&T Racing in Southaven, MS. They seem to be a decent tire. My only complaint is that I wish it was just a little taller and also that it didn't bulge quite so bad - even when inflated to the recommended maximum. I guess that is part of putting such a skinny tire on a front heavy car.

WHEELS (top)


All the wheels are Weld Racing Pro Stars. The Mustang bolt pattern for 5 lugs is 5x4.5.
Note, these are NOT the Pro Star XPs that are made to fit easier over larger brakes.

Wheel Size Backspacing Weld Part Number
Rear (Street) 15x10 6.5 96-510212
Rear (Track) 15x8 5.5 96-58210
Front 15x3.5 1.75 96-54200

FITMENT (top)
Everything cleared well in the back, but I did do some slight, easy modifications. The brake rotors and calipers clear fine. You have to bend the emergency brake cable down about 90* or so. A BFH (Big F-ing Hammer) did it quick and easy.


I also flipped the quad shocks over - they are 50/50 so it doesn't matter, but it does give much more tire clearance. I had to cut the boot off the driver's side quad because the rear is apparently a little off center. No big deal there either.


Last, I hammered the lip in the rear of the fender up a little bit. It didn't hit normally, but with a heavy load in the trunk or back seat, it got close. I figured, I may as well get more clearance, but again, a couple swings with a BFH is all you need. That edge is sharp and the last place I want to have close tire clearance is on a sharp edge. Exhaust pipes are still stock and cleared fine. It's close, but they don't rub. That will also depend on the quality of your H pipe - I have a cheap one that fits terrible.


No rolling the fender lip, no hammering the inner fender, no removing the quads. Not bad - hardly any work for some big meats in the back. The rear tires just come to the edge of the fender, but they are inside the top edge of the fender. Fits absolutely perfect, I think.


(top)
Now for the fronts. You HAVE to do some grinding. I ran with a 7/16" spacer (still have them in the attic if anyone wants them, let me know) and ground the bar down the side of the caliper down about halfway (maybe 1/8" - 1/4"?). That worked, but there wasn't much lug in the lugnut (even with the extended studs) and was borderline non-NHRA legal (may not have been). It also made the fronts stick out more than I liked. Looked fine, but not as good as it could be.

* Pics to come later *

To get rid of the spacer, that bar needs to be completely cut off. You also have to grind the outer face of the caliper down - mostly in the center of the outside face above the u-shaped notch in the middle. I used some chalk and rubbed the side of the caliper, then installed the wheel and spun it by hand. It would rub the chalk off where it hit. Pull the wheel and grind some more. I repeated this process many times. It was tedious, but I didn't want to take any more material off than I had to, so I did it a little bit at a time.

It took me about a hour or more on the first wheel. Then I knew how much to take off and the 2nd wheel was about 10-15 minutes. I have a big 9" and smaller 3.5" angle grinder that took the metal off fast. This would be a
lot more tedious with a dremel.

I haven't noticed any ill effects from modifying the front brakes, but I also don't drive a whole lot. 15 miles round trip about 3 times a week is pretty much all the street time I see with it anymore. The look and the weight savings was certainly worth it. I love the way it looks!


(top)

Here are a bunch of other pictures (including hi-res versions of the pics on this page)
Index of /pictures/mustang95/projects/wheelsandtires

[ModMustang97GT]

Spring Rates
I jacked this info from this web site. I highly recommend talking to these guys if you have questions, they are very knowledgable. And they can help you out with prices on stuff. Pretty cool couple of guys.
Mustang Spring Rates and Specs Article - StangSuspension.com

[HBK_2007]

Steeda 5 Link 2 Rear Suspension System - JEGS
isnt that pretty much a phb for the s197?

[ModMustang97GT]

The s197 actually comes with a PHB stock. The way you upgrade them is simply to get an adjustable one. Some people upgrade to other things, but most people just upgrade the bar, to an adjustable one.

[simon94]

some basturd outbid me on h&r race springs
thanks, but now i'm thinking to go with used oem mach 1 springs i think they should drop .75front and rear. so how much? where? should i cut mach 1 springs, to get a 1.5" drop up front and a 1-1.25" in back? thanks simon any input from others please