[Safi]

Originally Posted by silverstang safi you got it all wrong. I called BS on the statement fluffy made about his buddy USING A TELESCOPE to see stuff on the moon. FROM EARTH. REEEAAAADDDDD lol And BTW Fluff corrected himself, its all cool. How the hell did I turn this into the moon landing thread?!?!?! lol sorry guys. Back on topic.............SCREW THE TREE HUGGERS!!!

Actually i did read....fluffy didn't mention in his post how his friend was looking through a telescope....he just said he was looking through a telescope

[silverstang]

what?!?!?

[Fluffy The Rhino]

Originally Posted by silverstang the hubble is a satellite (as I HOPE you know) sent to other places to take photos. Havn't seen any pics of the moon with it though. The point of that was there are NO telescopes that can taked detailed pictures of the moon's surface FROM EARTH....... Like I said, I could care less about the moon landing. Big woop if they did or didn't, complete waste of money. I do however stand firm that "global warming" is a crock of shat lol

I posted a link of some photos of the moon taken by the hubble. It is not only a satellite, but a telescope. Regardless of the fact that it's not on earth, it is close in proximity and has in fact taken photos of the area where our astronauts set foot, to include an object they left behind : )

While it may SEEM like a waste of money, it is my belief that such missions could in fact be fruitful in that if mankind is to survive, we will eventually have no choice but to colonize other worlds. If we don't explore as much as we can, we won't be prepared for the possibilities.

IMO though, I think that we are extremely limited in our ability to explore due to the simple fact that our only options are the moon and Mars. I doubt there is really anything on Mars that will give us much of an advantage in continuing our livelihood later on except for gaining an understanding of what it is like to be on another planet. We also have the problem of travel. Harnessing the energy required to travel great distances and actually making it to a planet or moon that is inhabitable is still far out of reach. It's taken 20+ years for the voyager mission to get to the heliosphere. In other words, the edge of our solar system. It is theorized that the closest POSSIBLE inhabitable star system is approximately 20 light years away. Even still, flying out that way presents many dangers. We can only guess what a ship flying in that direction could run into. Hitting something the size of a pebble at speeds of greater than 20,000 MPH alone could be catastrophic. I use that number because it is roughly what our capabilities are. Imagine if we were able to travel at even half the speed of light. Avoiding collisions with objects we don't know about would be nearly an impossible feat. On top of all of that, what if we got there and we find nothing?

As far as space exploration goes, I think we've got a hell of a long way to go before we're actually going to be able to accomplish anything more than a couple landings to gather rocks.

And this goes go along the lines of global warming... Mankind might be responsible for a small percentage of the warming cycle, but there is one thing that a lot of people overlook. Even if we did use every resource on earth and humans all died off, the earth would do just fine. It would (and will) naturally recycle every single thing we have thrown at it. Every single thing you have ever touched in some form came from earth in a previous state. Volcanoes, floods, hurricanes, earthquakes, ice ages, and any other natural disaster you can think of will eventually wipe everything you and I have ever known out of existence. It will all be recycled.

There is nothing one or two people can do to stop global warming. While I believe it is only partially accelerated by humans, we are egotistical indeed if we think we can stop it from happening. The most we could do is shut off every car, train, airplane, power plant, industrial plant, etc... you get the picture, and only hope to slow it down by maybe a few months or years. It is my belief that al gore got on this train to make money and get himself in the spotlight. He's ignored multiple requests for debate on the subject because his motives aren't where his words lie. He didn't start using "renewable" energy at his mansion until someone figured out what his power bill was.

Humans in general seem to be happier living in turmoil. It's as though we need to feel some sense of urgency, some need to be stressed out about some impending doom, whether or not it is real or who/what caused it.

With that said, I really don't care about global warming. It's not that I'm insensitive. It's just not a concern of mine. To me, global warming is the same thing to me as if a comet were heading toward earth. I certainly can't stop it. So I'm not going to live in the fear of when it happens. I'd rather live life until it ends.

[jason3485]

Hubble Deep Field

http://z-e-r-o.up.seesaa.net/image/H...point_edit.jpg

[navyman8903]

penis.......

[101fng]

APOLLO LANDING SITES IMAGED BY LRO! | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine

there's a satellite called the lunar reconnaissance orbiter (which orbits the moon) that took some pretty damn good photos of the landing site. see above link.

conspiricy theories are stoopid

[BadBlackGT]

Fluffy, i totally agree with your statements. We may be adding a small SMALL percentage to the Global Warming Process, but its there no matter what. Everything we are burning was once from the earth. Like you said, all the raw materials we use for EVERYTHING will once again be returned to the earth. And be ready to be processed again (if someone is still there) But the Earth is fine on its own, why do we need to worry about our pollutants into the atmosphere? I can see maybe surface pollution, because that can get into our fresh water and everything. These are some great points, Earth has its cycles, NO MATTER WHAT. They only thing that i can't understand, and maybe you guys can fill me in on this one. is that if Earth goes through a heat cycle, why is it then followed by a cold or ice age cycle? Why the change? What throws if off?

[catchtheroadrunner]

The latest G8 meeting (8 most advanced countries) focused on reducing global warming. So if it is a "SCAM", it's a scam the entire globe is perpetrating. It's possible, but would require so much competence at so many levels of so many countries.

There is so much science supporting a call to reduce greenhouses, not to mention the asthma causing particulate matter that accompanies a lot of the emissions.

Every major news outlet, university, and science source supports the evidence that the atmosphere is warming and that the mid atlantic conveyor is slowing down. What are the sources that says it's not? 60 German scientist? 60 German scientist's opinion would only be relevant if Germany has 100 or so total, than you could say that 60% say the globe is not warming. I suspect Germany has thousand of scientists. You found a source that claims 60 of them feel global warming a scam. And of those 60 German scientist, how many are qualified to comment? You can be a scientist studying any number of topics and still know little or nothing about the atmosphere, YET have an opinion on the subject.

What do you call the Dr. that graduated last in medical school?

You still call them Doctor. Smart people can be idiots too. If they do it in public they become "quoted" idiots.

Once while looking through a telescope, my roomate's boyfriend tried to convince me that there were lights on the moon. He was a manic depressive orthopedist. If I wrote an article I'd refer to that source as simply Dr. because if I said medical doctor, the source would be of no value. I would want people to believe he was a Dr. of the PHd sort. Point being, background is important, not just title.

I was wrong. Germany graduates millions of Science and Technology grad students every year (masters and PH.d). I said I suspected they had thousands. But I suppose only 60 of them are truly wise.

(data is 12 years old but unless things change that fast, it's still a good indicator)

Assessing the Supply and Demand for Scientists and Technologists in Europe

"The European labour market for S&Ts is not homogeneous and is fast changing. It is segmented by country and locality, and by sector, occupation and discipline. Employer demand is influenced by many factors, including the national and international economic climate, historic patterns of national development and structural change, and corporate competitiveness, both in the commercial market and in the labour market.
There were over 28.5 million graduates across all disciplines, aged 25-59 and employed in the EU in 1997: 19 per cent of the employed population. The largest numbers were in Germany (9.3 million), the UK (6.5m) and France (5.2m)."

[Fluffy The Rhino]

My personal take on that is "global warming" is a money-maker. If a country jumps on board when it comes to submitting new ideas and technologies to thwart this, they get funding. "Bad" countries get nothing. Even if they're the lowest offender on the scale. As long as they don't do anything, then they're labeled as the evil ones.

I don't think scientists are idiots by any means. Quite the contrary, which leads me to believe they know exactly what they're doing. Jumping on the bandwagon for MONEY. What the rest of the world (especially the hippies and hollywood actors) doesn't understand is that all of it really isn't going to put a dent in it or put a stop to whatever the earth decides to do to us. The very best we could do is turn everything off, sit, and wait.

This is one of those things that has become a huge issue because humans believe that we are capable of carving our own fate since we have technology, free will, and self consciousness. We as Americans in particular tend to look at these kinds of "problems" as something we can solve. How quickly we forget about Hurricane Katrina, the Tsunami of 26 December 2004 that killed what, 150,000 people? These were two SMALL events in comparison to the size and mass of the earth. Why is it that we can't stop a hurricane or an earthquake, but we feel as though we are capable of taking on the global task of POLICING nature itself? Ah yes, POLICING. It's the American way.

Thanks al gore.

Effing putz.

[M.P. Cobra Fan]

reps to fluffy. great points man. very well said.

[Trick Tuners]

Originally Posted by FluffyTheRhino My personal take on that is "global warming" is a money-maker.

+1 Its a multi-billion dollar industry.

[catchtheroadrunner]

Originally Posted by FluffyTheRhino My personal take on that is "global warming" is a money-maker. If a country jumps on board when it comes to submitting new ideas and technologies to thwart this, they get funding. "Bad" countries get nothing. Even if they're the lowest offender on the scale. As long as they don't do anything, then they're labeled as the evil ones. I don't think scientists are idiots by any means. Quite the contrary, which leads me to believe they know exactly what they're doing. Jumping on the bandwagon for MONEY. What the rest of the world (especially the hippies and hollywood actors) doesn't understand is that all of it really isn't going to put a dent in it or put a stop to whatever the earth decides to do to us. The very best we could do is turn everything off, sit, and wait. This is one of those things that has become a huge issue because humans believe that we are capable of carving our own fate since we have technology, free will, and self consciousness. We as Americans in particular tend to look at these kinds of "problems" as something we can solve. How quickly we forget about Hurricane Katrina, the Tsunami of 26 December 2004 that killed what, 150,000 people? These were two SMALL events in comparison to the size and mass of the earth. Why is it that we can't stop a hurricane or an earthquake, but we feel as though we are capable of taking on the global task of POLICING nature itself? Ah yes, POLICING. It's the American way. Thanks al gore. Effing putz.

So you'll take your reasonable theory and call it absolute because some small percentage of fringe scientists believe it. If I had known, I'd have just skipped down to the "Effing putz" part.

You know, if you're right, we waste a whole lot of money, a whole lot of politics happens, but in the end, we still land on the moon again by 2020. But if you're wrong, and a whole lot of people think so, what are we headed for? Aren't there way to many people first off, and energy users second off? Are you ok with california emissions drifting all the way to the midwest, not just exhaust gases but the particulate matter as well (soot)? Perhaps you don't believe that either, but if you look at the cases of reactive airway disease across the country, the numbers aren't trending down, they're trending up.

Either the poplulation has to level off, or even recede. Or we are going to fuck this place up.

We aren't policing anything right now other than our own distruction.

AND, you got repped for it!!

[mpboy]

pollution is still bad, but i do it, so i will shut my mouth

[mpboy]

oh and fluffy can talk about taking a shit at lunch time and get repz because he is a great story teller and enthralls you with his words lol

[Fluffy The Rhino]

Originally Posted by catchtheroadrunner So you'll take your reasonable theory and call it absolute because some small percentage of fringe scientists believe it. If I had known, I'd have just skipped down to the "Effing putz" part. You know, if you're right, we waste a whole lot of money, a whole lot of politics happens, but in the end, we still land on the moon again by 2020. But if you're wrong, and a whole lot of people think so, what are we headed for? Aren't there way to many people first off, and energy users second off? Are you ok with california emissions drifting all the way to the midwest, not just exhaust gases but the particulate matter as well (soot)? Perhaps you don't believe that either, but if you look at the cases of reactive airway disease across the country, the numbers aren't trending down, they're trending up. Either the poplulation has to level off, or even recede. Or we are going to fuck this place up. We aren't policing anything right now other than our own distruction. AND, you got repped for it!!

I never used the word "absolute."

Second, please tell me where in my post I stated something unreasonable or false. You can't. I know... I do this real moron thing called "thinking." I don't believe everything I'm told to believe. I don't accept everything I'm told to accept. When it's BS, it's BS, and I'm not afraid to call it, yes, you guessed it, BS.

Your statement(s) are a classic case of glass half empty/half full. You say that a whole lot of people think I'm wrong. Well, a whole lot of people think I'm right. So which is it?

Another thing.... reactive airway disease. I don't know if you watch tv, but every other commercial has to do with cleaning products and medical BS. This country is obsessed with keeping clean. "Wash your hands when you pee." "Don't pick that rock up off the ground little Johnny, you'll get germs on you."

Naturally in this kind of environment, your immune system can't build up good defenses unless you give it some practice. George Carlin had a pretty good bit on this one. This is why we get vaccines. To build up the immune system. This is why I got allergy shots. Not because smog was setting my allergies off, but because of pollens, dust, and animal dander. Furthermore, if "reactive airway diseases" are going up across the country, that tells me it has nothing to do with global warming based on anything man made. Some cities are far more industrialized than others (such as farmland).

A lot of medical studies are conveniently misdirected to give the illusion of one thing causing affliction just to give credence to a misguided cause.

I think California emissions standards are garbage. I don't live in LA, but I've been there, and I've seen the smog. That's what happens when you cram so many people into such a small space. Same for NYC, same for where I live. So what she we do in the event of a wild fire? Should the federal government fine the owners of properties that burn in said flames because they've contributed to "global warming" by releasing greenhouse gases? For Christ's sake, the government wants to imposes taxes on farmers because their cattle's dung releases methane! Are you bloody kidding me? And do you really think those tax dollars are all going to fund global cooling programs? Nope.

Believe it or not, a LOT more scientists and other people who think for themselves are raising the BS flag on the global warming pyramid scheme fronted by al gore. It's not just a few "fringe scientists" but rather a large collective number of people across the globe in many walks of life who see BS for what it is.

This to me is just like hollywood ranting about the wars in the middle east. I don't claim to know all, I don't think my word is the end-all. But I do know when something is wrong. No matter how much money we let the government take from us to give to BS U.N. programs, the sun isn't going to stop producing heat or light. Not in our lifetimes.

So if the scientists think they can stop global warming, have at it. Enjoy. Have fun. When they've all failed, maybe they'll get it into their thick skulls that they're only human and don't have the power to do anything. It's quite humbling.

Originally Posted by mpboy oh and fluffy can talk about taking a shit at lunch time and get repz because he is a great story teller and enthralls you with his words lol

lol Thanks

[04mustang232]

lol, its a shame that 60 GERMAN scientists are needed to persuade some americans when 10000s of AMERICAN scientists have been saying this for years.

[catchtheroadrunner]

Originally Posted by FluffyTheRhino It snowed here a few times this winter. And it was a LOT of snow. Wait, did someone really say something about the moon landing being a joke? One of my friends and former coworkers used to be in the Air Force... one of the places he was stationed at used an object our astronauts left on the moon to calibrate some piece of equipment. Don't remember what it was. But he laughs at the moon landing conspiracy nutjobs because he's seen things on the moon our guys left there.... with his own eyes through a telescope. If that isn't evidence enough.... well then. What's left to say?

I went back to review the thread and this was at the top, I wasn't trying to find more nonsense, it was just there.

There is not a single thing on the moon, left by mankind, visible from earth with the naked eye. Yes there are things like laser reflectors used to determine how fast the moon is receding away. But not even the structure left behind by the lunar lander is visible from earth. I don't think it's even visible with a telescope. Can you provide any proof of this other than a military buddy? Perhaps maybe one of the hundreds of thousand of amateur astronomy photos taken every year out of backyard telescopes, eh hum, like mine? That would be sufficient proof.

Sounds like poopy lunchtime talk to me.

[catchtheroadrunner]

Originally Posted by 04mustang232 lol, its a shame that 60 GERMAN scientists are needed to persuade some americans when 10000s of AMERICAN scientists have been saying this for years.

That's great, another claim that I/we are required to take at face value as though you are some sort of authority. How about a link to get me started on some research?

[catchtheroadrunner]

Originally Posted by FluffyTheRhino I never used the word "absolute." Second, please tell me where in my post I stated something unreasonable or false. You can't. I know... I do this real moron thing called "thinking." I don't believe everything I'm told to believe. I don't accept everything I'm told to accept. When it's BS, it's BS, and I'm not afraid to call it, yes, you guessed it, BS. Your statement(s) are a classic case of glass half empty/half full. You say that a whole lot of people think I'm wrong. Well, a whole lot of people think I'm right. So which is it? Another thing.... reactive airway disease. I don't know if you watch tv, but every other commercial has to do with cleaning products and medical BS. This country is obsessed with keeping clean. "Wash your hands when you pee." "Don't pick that rock up off the ground little Johnny, you'll get germs on you." Naturally in this kind of environment, your immune system can't build up good defenses unless you give it some practice. George Carlin had a pretty good bit on this one. This is why we get vaccines. To build up the immune system. This is why I got allergy shots. Not because smog was setting my allergies off, but because of pollens, dust, and animal dander. Furthermore, if "reactive airway diseases" are going up across the country, that tells me it has nothing to do with global warming based on anything man made. Some cities are far more industrialized than others (such as farmland). A lot of medical studies are conveniently misdirected to give the illusion of one thing causing affliction just to give credence to a misguided cause. I think California emissions standards are garbage. I don't live in LA, but I've been there, and I've seen the smog. That's what happens when you cram so many people into such a small space. Same for NYC, same for where I live. So what she we do in the event of a wild fire? Should the federal government fine the owners of properties that burn in said flames because they've contributed to "global warming" by releasing greenhouse gases? For Christ's sake, the government wants to imposes taxes on farmers because their cattle's dung releases methane! Are you bloody kidding me? And do you really think those tax dollars are all going to fund global cooling programs? Nope. Believe it or not, a LOT more scientists and other people who think for themselves are raising the BS flag on the global warming pyramid scheme fronted by al gore. It's not just a few "fringe scientists" but rather a large collective number of people across the globe in many walks of life who see BS for what it is. This to me is just like hollywood ranting about the wars in the middle east. I don't claim to know all, I don't think my word is the end-all. But I do know when something is wrong. No matter how much money we let the government take from us to give to BS U.N. programs, the sun isn't going to stop producing heat or light. Not in our lifetimes. So if the scientists think they can stop global warming, have at it. Enjoy. Have fun. When they've all failed, maybe they'll get it into their thick skulls that they're only human and don't have the power to do anything. It's quite humbling. lol Thanks

how about a link that demonstrates that a large number of American Scientists don't believe in global warming. A good link, like an open letter to a science journal with a few thousand names on it. I need a place to start if it really is a load of B.S.

[Fluffy The Rhino]

Originally Posted by catchtheroadrunner I went back to review the thread and this was at the top, I wasn't trying to find more nonsense, it was just there. There is not a single thing on the moon, left by mankind, visible from earth with the naked eye. Yes there are things like laser reflectors used to determine how fast the moon is receding away. But not even the structure left behind by the lunar lander is visible from earth. I don't think it's even visible with a telescope. Can you provide any proof of this other than a military buddy? Perhaps maybe one of the hundreds of thousand of amateur astronomy photos taken every year out of backyard telescopes, eh hum, like mine? That would be sufficient proof. Sounds like poopy lunchtime talk to me.

You might want to go ahead and read my posts after that where I corrected myself. I called the guy and talked to him. Anything else you'd like to attempt to pick apart?