[futureMACH1racer]

Originally Posted by atlacatl213 Here's the way I see it. Public schooling is a formed of a socialized organization. Public schooling has done way less than par as far as getting children ready for higher education (college and university). I would know I was a product of public schooling and boy did I struggle to get to where I am now. The education system is failing; People are not getting adequate amount of classes in public universities and many professors are having to take furlough days in which affects the quality and time that we as students have to learn. The government can only provide so much aid to those students from low income families to continue on their educational path. So if this socialized structure fails in the education system, what makes them believe that it will succeed in healthcare?

Great point!

[JASonic]

FM...I am totally with you on Unions. Being from the same area as you and growing up with a father that was a steward for the Teamsters and later in his life into Management at UPS. I seen both sides of the coin and the Unions are a disgrace. The absolute WORST unions are the government unions. The reason for this is because the core of a union is having a "power to negotiate". BOTH sides need to have something the other wants. In a commercial business environment, its natural to an extent because both sides need the other for something. However, in a government union, this doesnt exsist in reality. There is nothing to "negotiate".

For an over simplified example---- A government union says " we need more pay". The management has nothing to lose by agreeing. They can act like they care but reality is that the money to support higher wages, better retirement, better healthcare does NOT come from their pockets....it comes from the taxpayer or YOUR pocket. In a commercialo business the management has a VESTED reason to negotiate because its their money.

IMO...all unions are out of date and not needed and government unions specifically should be ilegal unless the public that pays the taxes gets a vote at the next meeting....and that isnt going to happen.

[ia07gt]

Futuremach1, I do agree some people make a lot, Ford isn't haveing a problem right now i do know that! but look at some of the things that companies have done without unions. There are places that take 20 years to get a 5 dollar increase in pay. I cannot tell you how much bull crap i used to have to put up with!!! But since i have to write a report on this i will post it later in a few weeks a whole 5 pages worth!

[Mustangshar]

Originally Posted by JASonic Im going to go out on limb here and play devils advocate. I have a question. Please dont answer with "I heard" or "I think". If you want to answer, use FACTS. Does "socialized" healthcare mean that instead of me paying $200 per month plus copays, plus stuff they dont cover I can get healthcare at no cost? Does it mean that people like Jules can get the treatments she needs for her loved one without any trouble? I am NOT asking this to try and make a point so save your flames. I am trying to find out. I cannot find FACTS to these types of questions because the whole debate is stuffed so full of bullshit and I have a job that keeps me from being able to troll around all day for answers.

JAsonic,

I'm on the Insurance end of all this. I will tell you managed care is what this child has now and it would be even worse with the government. I guarantee you she wouldn't even get the treatment she is getting now with the bureaucratic paperwork and some government official telling them to wait in line. I KNOW what will happen. Medically necessary treatments will have to wait or any new/advanced/more costly procedures will be on HOLD-FACT. That WILL happen. Scares the shit out of me!
And oh...lets not forget they will be cutting MEDICARE....yeah these seniors have enough to worry about and now, well they will LOSE health care. This is from the talk radio this afternoon alone from Rep.Congressman Roskam in IL

Originally Posted by ia07gt BTW if you have anything against Unions then you have something against me. Unions built this country up. Your but can thank Unions for labor laws that keep us safe and keep companies in check. if you dont like unions why dont you sell me a car and I give you half of what you want in return. the reason why people do what they do the right way is only because a Union worker DIED to make YOUR JOB SAFER think about that next time you want to talk crap about unions. If you dont believe me open up a historybook its there!

Sweety-I'm with you! I am a card carrying Bargaining member of LOCAL 399 Operators working for LOCAL 150 Midwest Operators and Engineers Benefit Fund Office. Labor Laws got us the 40hr work week and a host of other things. I'm protected from what my Boss can do to me like fire at will. However, I work my ass off to, not a slacker..I DO see the slackers. I think you will always have them Union or Non-Union. Support the American Worker

Ok back to topic.


I did send the email/link and THANK you so much for posting the site. I just sent it to my friends who also are terrified at this plan.

Here is another

Physicians' Petition - TakeBackMedicine

You know..I may find every petition I can find on line tonight, because I do not want to die a horrible, EARLY death because it will cost the government too much money to keep me alive and my life will have a dollar amount placed on my worth.-TRUE, they have had to do this in the UK.


Among other HORRORS of the bill, it enables the IRS to hire, 10-12000 more people for the IRS to ENFORCE this freaking health plan! Yeah IRS will do monthly ENFORCEMENT! I'm going to deal with an IRS agent??? So much more to this than just getting people health care...TAXES will jump way up and Doctors....LOL, they are ready to jump ship.

[JASonic]

Excellent post Shar...

[Mustangshar]

Originally Posted by JASonic Excellent post Shar...

Awww thx sweety. I'm getting on my knees and praying for a miracle today. Give us our country back

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by ia07gt No offense to ne1 but the Health Care reforms would not do nething more to the tax payer and truthfully would end up costing the government less money in the long run! think about it more affordable healthcare for everyone. Including the hard working middle class and people struggling to get to the middle class!

Wrong! I work around these stubborn politicians all day. This health care bill is going to raise the national deficit by $5 trillion by 2014 on top of the $13 Trillion debt we're already in. Is that what we want?

[Mustangshar]

^ +1,000,0000,00000,00000000 then the USA is broke and we lose the country and are run by a Socialist government. We didn't need a war to lose the country..if this pases today, then we lost it.

[Mustangshar]

Damn It! It Passed!!! Oh cannot wait to see what happens. We are so screwed and we will PAY through the nose for it. I am going to start paying off my bills in earnest, cuz my paycheck will be severely reduced. Damn it...

I am voting everyone out in the next election. Keep in mind though not one republican voted yes

[futureMACH1racer]

We aren't going to get our country back on hopes and dreams. We have to take it back, and this is no easy task. Americans need to wake up before America is gone. It's not to late, but it's just a bit harder than it would've been 10yrs ago.

[lcorriveau3]

I agree with FutureMach1racer.........................


on another note.....How does a person quote what another member posted in a thread?? ie like Mustangshar did? please help if you can.

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by lcorriveau3 I agree with FutureMach1racer......................... on another note.....How does a person quote what another member posted in a thread?? ie like Mustangshar did? please help if you can.

Click on the little button in the bottom right corner of that person's post that says "Quote"

[lcorriveau3]

Thanks much. I will rep you when I can.

[JASonic]

Originally Posted by smithboy76908 Click on the little button in the bottom right corner of that person's post that says "Quote"

Like that..

[Mustangshar]

Is any one else seeing the big picture here?? Like a socialist government is just beginning to take its power....<she says cowering in the corner under a blanket>

[Drick]

Id do it but this kinda stuff doesnt work. I like how it says Obama is a recipient. The hell he is lol