[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by slownomo TURBO= coked up engine parts and extreme under hood temps.. not for me, but then we each have our own reasons

wow thats the most retarded statement ive heard since s/c produce more heat

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by zolen definitely roots or twin screw for a daily driver. Need proof? watch a video of a turbo stang on youtube that shows the tach while accelerating. It is ridiculous. the one I saw had bad lag between about 2-4k rpm (about like being nat. aspirated) then the boost just came on like crazy at about 5000 rpm and caused serious wheelspin. Believe me, I have an 03 Cobra, and I woudnt trade my low end torque and progressive power for that peaky crap anyday. Yes the turbo will make more power with the same boost, but I know that I accelerate the most between 2 and 5000 rpm. that is where the roots and screw blowers literally blow the turbos away.

just about everything in there was wrong
s/c is by far the worst dd power adder out there
i can hit 5000rpms with out hitting 1psi in my car. so shut up and quit giving out miss information
i can drive the rest of my life in my turbo stang and never once hit boost
lol then 2-4k the boost came on like crazy and wheels spun?last time i checked that wasnt a bad thing. just meant you have shitty suspension
but then between 2-5k you say s/c blow away turbos?

where the fuck did you get that?!
the only s/c that stands a chance are twin screws and ONLY off the line. turbos ALWAYS ALWAYS murder on the top end
thats what they're best at.

for example supra vs cobra races
ALMOST EVERY race the supra is losing on the jump killing at the end.
at most if a cobra wins its either nitrous or he gets the jump and keeps a distance. never pulling

you've got it completely the opposite way

you cant compare you VIDEO watching experience to real life
i've driven all 3
CLEARLY turbo is by far the best way to go.
if honda's NEVER almost go s/c despite they're DESPRATE NEED for low end torque they go turbo

your the first person ive ever heard to say a s/c will shine and take over at higher rpms then a s/c
all of the worlds fastest cars a turbo'd
NONE are s/c and they dont even really come close
the more power you make with a s/c the more power your also LOSING

explain this
a fellow v6 mustang owner first to make 500rwhp off a vortech made 500 and claimed he was losing well over 100RWHP just from having the s/c.THATS A 100RWHP
hes now turbo'd making 640rwhp SAE with just 17psi

perfect other example
twin turbo v6 mustang made 611rwhp off 16psi pump gas, 19in rims auto built tranny
s/c (procharged) V6 mustang SAME motor higher compression, same auto tranny, smaller rims on 18psi made only 495rwhp!!!!

NOT ONLY is he making 116rwhp LESS on VERY similar setups but his compression is HIGHER, and he's running 2psi MORE. throw 18psi on the twin turbo mustang your seeing 650+rwhp




turbos are MUCH more forgiving to a motor then a s/c
turbos make MUCH more power then s/c at the same boost
turbo's with low boost generally can run 3-4psi LESS then a s/c and make similar power
at HIGH hp levels and boost levels the s/c gets worst, as i just explained a turbo could have run at about 11psi and made what a 18psi s/c made...
turbo's are easier to maintain
more money for the hp
easier to turn up boost
better mpg


honestly the only true PLUS to a s/c is the ease of installing it.
aside from that there is nothing else better about it
you can say price but ive seen turbo kits CHEAPER then s/ckits

[turbodgumby]

Originally Posted by zolen definitely roots or twin screw for a daily driver. Need proof? watch a video of a turbo stang on youtube that shows the tach while accelerating. It is ridiculous. the one I saw had bad lag between about 2-4k rpm (about like being nat. aspirated) then the boost just came on like crazy at about 5000 rpm and caused serious wheelspin. Believe me, I have an 03 Cobra, and I woudnt trade my low end torque and progressive power for that peaky crap anyday. Yes the turbo will make more power with the same boost, but I know that I accelerate the most between 2 and 5000 rpm. that is where the roots and screw blowers literally blow the turbos away.

A turbo suited to the car set-up will come in really fast. My single was there at 2100 rpm and my twins are there at 1750. I make 587 trq by 1700 rpm and that with just a little 306. And if I need more I just turn the boost up. No pullies to change and NO belt drag. And my engine bay temps are lower no than with the T-trim that was on there before the single turbo. I love the sound of a twin screw but even if I had an 03-04 cobra or even a GT-500 I would put twins on it. There is a reason why most people can only get about 600 from a stock 03-04 cobra motor with the blower but can get 900-1000 with twins without changin longblocks.

As was said its all about expereinces and preferrences but if you need a race against yours or anyones!!! Twin screw Car I am sure there is more than a few that can handle that ass woopin.

How many 8sec TwinScrew cars are there. How about 9 sec?? Now how many Turbo cars.

I mean come on you cant add a blower to a mildy built honda and run 11s but you can put a turbo and they run good for a little 4 banger!!

[beckerb]

Originally Posted by Baneful Nice info. What about maintenance? Things such as oil being engine fed or self contained? Also, what is the life span of both, meaning how many miles are they good for before needing to be rebuilt? I have heard sc is good for about 70k before needing a rebuild and turbos can go 150k-200k (the last turbo on my truck made it just over 250k before it went boom and had to be replaced. Bummer was the impeller grenaded and sent parts of it into the inter cooler) What is the average difference in hp per lb of boots between them? You gave an example of total power gained per pound of boost, but what is the actual gain for each since the sc runs on a pulley? Can you run under-drive pulleys with a turbo? I know it isn't a good idea to do this with a sc (at least for the crank pulley).

I can tell you for a fact that you will likely not get much more the 65K miles on a performace turbo and that is if you dont beat it. Also turbos beat the heck out of your oil. Also turbos will result in hotter air temps then superchargers. It is not uncommon to see exhaust gas temps running in excess of 600C and that heats the turbo housing.

I have both and the super charger is much better related to low end power and over all performance. There will be those the have a different opinion I am sure. If want want a pure track car the turbos are ok. On the street they are just not as good...

[DeMello]

turbos help gas mileage

[turbodgumby]

oh and when comparing prices from s/c to turbo make sure you add in headers for the s/c cars and h/x pipe, and a cold air intake system for those twinscrew(roots style). And belts and extra pullies for turning up the boost.

Example a KB or Whipple for the mod 2v or na 4v is about 3800 give or take depending on the deal and size. Plus to move the new found air into motor you are going to need long tubes about500-800, and an x/h pipe about300. Now a single turbo kit complete is right at 4200( same give or take for deal size and manf.) But you are done. Both are going to need more fuel delivery( injectors and pump) and tunes.
03-04 cobra same prices up or down a little for the blowers. Again you'll need headers,x/h, cold air, fuel, tune
complete kits with intakes are around 6000 but most of those kits also come with tubular k-members also.



We wont even get into the Centrifugal S/C

[beckerb]

Originally Posted by DeMello turbos help gas mileage

OK if you say so - but not in my 633AWHP Dodge Stealth. (pump gas). Also depending on the type of turbos you get your spool up time will differ. If you get some large enough to carry high CFM and boost then you better have the displacement to spin them up. Turbo lag is very common with after market turbo set ups.

[beckerb]

Originally Posted by turbodgumby A turbo suited to the car set-up will come in really fast. My single was there at 2100 rpm and my twins are there at 1750. I make 587 trq by 1700 rpm and that with just a little 306. And if I need more I just turn the boost up. No pullies to change and NO belt drag. And my engine bay temps are lower no than with the T-trim that was on there before the single turbo. I love the sound of a twin screw but even if I had an 03-04 cobra or even a GT-500 I would put twins on it. There is a reason why most people can only get about 600 from a stock 03-04 cobra motor with the blower but can get 900-1000 with twins without changin longblocks. As was said its all about expereinces and preferrences but if you need a race against yours or anyones!!! Twin screw Car I am sure there is more than a few that can handle that ass woopin. How many 8sec TwinScrew cars are there. How about 9 sec?? Now how many Turbo cars. I mean come on you cant add a blower to a mildy built honda and run 11s but you can put a turbo and they run good for a little 4 banger!!

Come on how 537 foot pounds of tork at 1700. If you did you would be running far better the 10s in the quarter. Why would you say that ??

[turbodgumby]

Originally Posted by beckerb I can tell you for a fact that you will likely not get much more the 65K miles on a performace turbo and that is if you dont beat it. Also turbos beat the heck out of your oil. Also turbos will result in hotter air temps then superchargers. It is not uncommon to see exhaust gas temps running in excess of 600C and that heats the turbo housing. I have both and the super charger is much better related to low end power and over all performance. There will be those the have a different opinion I am sure. If want want a pure track car the turbos are ok. On the street they are just not as good...

Did you know that most "turbo" diesels get like 200,000 miles out of their turbos??

And last I checked you needed to change you oil evey 3000 miles anyway. but yes it is harder on the oil.

Also when I dont have my foot in it it drives and gets mileage better than a stock car. There is no constant drag on the motor.

And I am sure my car makes power at a faster ramp rate than yours. Thats not a "mines BIGGER" type of statement. I mean that the ramp rate of power increase starts sooner, comes on faster, and stays for longer than your car. Turbo cars have more range of peek power that is the main reason they are faster.

My pushrod motor to your Modular motor is not the best example but it has the same point!!

If you make 450 rwhp then add an average of 20% drag for the blower. So just think of the power at the same boost and intake temps that would be without the added drag and wear.

[turbodgumby]

Originally Posted by beckerb Come on how 537 foot pounds of tork at 1700. If you did you would be running far better the 10s in the quarter. Why would you say that ??

the 10s are with the single turbo set-up. Oh and that is as always with 17inch DR and road-race style suspension. Its a street car not a drag wagon. I could personally care less what it does in the quarter. I have a Drag car this is just a street car for fun!!!!!

[ronster]

How long has it been since anyone has looked at pricing? A Hellion Single starts at $5995.00 and ad about $1700.00 for K-member, ball bearing, a little larger turbo etc. The KB with all the bells and whistles including intercooler and 8 rib system is $7400.00 with a 2.3L. Whipples come in around $6500.00 when all is said and done.

Its all subjective. Some guys are "light to light", and for that instant on is perfect so go hybrid roots or twin screw. At the track either system will work, but the positive displacement guys always come out of the box first, while the turbo and centrifugal play "catch up".

Then for the REAL SERIOUS guys...top fuel, funny car, we are back to belt driven positive displacement blowers.

[turbodgumby]

I have raced quite a few cobras with KB from a dig and they didn't "come on" anyfaster than I did!! But like was said its peas to carrots. They both work with fantastic results!! But I will stand by the turbo over blower

[ronster]

Which are the peas and which are the carrots. LOL. A friend and I just completed the design of a supercharger kit for the 99-04 GT daily driver guys. Low cost, positive displacement, Magnuson based. You seem to have been around...what do you think.



This was on a absolutely bone stock 99 GT that was done for a customer.

[~C~]

Originally Posted by itschristorres8 just about everything in there was wrong s/c is by far the worst dd power adder out there i can hit 5000rpms with out hitting 1psi in my car. so shut up and quit giving out miss information i can drive the rest of my life in my turbo stang and never once hit boost lol then 2-4k the boost came on like crazy and wheels spun?last time i checked that wasnt a bad thing. just meant you have shitty suspension but then between 2-5k you say s/c blow away turbos? where the fuck did you get that?! the only s/c that stands a chance are twin screws and ONLY off the line. turbos ALWAYS ALWAYS murder on the top end thats what they're best at. for example supra vs cobra races ALMOST EVERY race the supra is losing on the jump killing at the end. at most if a cobra wins its either nitrous or he gets the jump and keeps a distance. never pulling you've got it completely the opposite way you cant compare you VIDEO watching experience to real life i've driven all 3 CLEARLY turbo is by far the best way to go. if honda's NEVER almost go s/c despite they're DESPRATE NEED for low end torque they go turbo your the first person ive ever heard to say a s/c will shine and take over at higher rpms then a s/c all of the worlds fastest cars a turbo'd NONE are s/c and they dont even really come close the more power you make with a s/c the more power your also LOSING explain this a fellow v6 mustang owner first to make 500rwhp off a vortech made 500 and claimed he was losing well over 100RWHP just from having the s/c.THATS A 100RWHP hes now turbo'd making 640rwhp SAE with just 17psi perfect other example twin turbo v6 mustang made 611rwhp off 16psi pump gas, 19in rims auto built tranny s/c (procharged) V6 mustang SAME motor higher compression, same auto tranny, smaller rims on 18psi made only 495rwhp!!!! NOT ONLY is he making 116rwhp LESS on VERY similar setups but his compression is HIGHER, and he's running 2psi MORE. throw 18psi on the twin turbo mustang your seeing 650+rwhp turbos are MUCH more forgiving to a motor then a s/c turbos make MUCH more power then s/c at the same boost turbo's with low boost generally can run 3-4psi LESS then a s/c and make similar power at HIGH hp levels and boost levels the s/c gets worst, as i just explained a turbo could have run at about 11psi and made what a 18psi s/c made... turbo's are easier to maintain more money for the hp easier to turn up boost better mpg honestly the only true PLUS to a s/c is the ease of installing it. aside from that there is nothing else better about it you can say price but ive seen turbo kits CHEAPER then s/ckits

Originally Posted by turbodgumby A turbo suited to the car set-up will come in really fast. My single was there at 2100 rpm and my twins are there at 1750. I make 587 trq by 1700 rpm and that with just a little 306. And if I need more I just turn the boost up. No pullies to change and NO belt drag. And my engine bay temps are lower no than with the T-trim that was on there before the single turbo. I love the sound of a twin screw but even if I had an 03-04 cobra or even a GT-500 I would put twins on it. There is a reason why most people can only get about 600 from a stock 03-04 cobra motor with the blower but can get 900-1000 with twins without changin longblocks. As was said its all about expereinces and preferrences but if you need a race against yours or anyones!!! Twin screw Car I am sure there is more than a few that can handle that ass woopin. How many 8sec TwinScrew cars are there. How about 9 sec?? Now how many Turbo cars. I mean come on you cant add a blower to a mildy built honda and run 11s but you can put a turbo and they run good for a little 4 banger!!

Fuck! Does anyone want to buy a procharger!??!?

[turbodgumby]

Originally Posted by ronster Which are the peas and which are the carrots. LOL. A friend and I just completed the design of a supercharger kit for the 99-04 GT daily driver guys. Low cost, positive displacement, Magnuson based. You seem to have been around...what do you think. This was on a absolutely bone stock 99 GT that was done for a customer.

Nice torque curve. Power comes on like a centrifugal.