[torquecars]

Is it still worth double clutching? I tend to find that some people swear by the technique on track and others refuse to accept it is any better or quicker or smoother than a standard gearchange.

http://www.torquecars.com/articles/d...-clutching.php - just in case you need to read up on what I'm talking about.

[jgrotkier]

Originally Posted by torquecars Is it still worth double clutching? I tend to find that some people swear by the technique on track and others refuse to accept it is any better or quicker or smoother than a standard gearchange. http://www.torquecars.com/articles/d...-clutching.php - just in case you need to read up on what I'm talking about.

In my experience it definitely makes for a smoother downshift. I have never heard of someone double clutching on an up shift though.

I have heard it takes the work off of your synchro's in the transmission so they wear less so I generally double clutch around town but I don't bother at the track (road course) because I really don't have time to.

Double clutching during a straight line race would be stupid.

[jgrotkier]

I do rev-match on downshifts at the track though.

[Casper98GT]

[jgrotkier]

Originally Posted by Casper98GT

very well thought out reply.

[MeZ]

I rev match when I'm out on these back country roads .. its just a smoother way to drive .. and kinda fun .. that way when you enter a turn in 5th and go to 4th you don't get a jerk but rather a smooth transition in and out of the corner in power since you're a gear lower than you entered .. aka go in fast .. come out fast .. and smooth !!!

[jgrotkier]

Originally Posted by MeZ I rev match when I'm out on these back country roads .. its just a smoother way to drive .. and kinda fun .. that way when you enter a turn in 5th and go to 4th you don't get a jerk but rather a smooth transition in and out of the corner in power since you're a gear lower than you entered .. aka go in fast .. come out fast .. and smooth !!!

Actually its supposed to be slow in fast out. You want to be in the lower gear before entering the corner so you can get on the gas around the apex of the turn.

[bransdaman78]

Originally Posted by jgrotkier Originally Posted by MeZ I rev match when I'm out on these back country roads .. its just a smoother way to drive .. and kinda fun .. that way when you enter a turn in 5th and go to 4th you don't get a jerk but rather a smooth transition in and out of the corner in power since you're a gear lower than you entered .. aka go in fast .. come out fast .. and smooth !!! Actually its supposed to be slow in fast out. You want to be in the lower gear before entering the corner so you can get on the gas around the apex of the turn.

umm no actually its fast in and fast out, thats the purpose of racing....

rev matching saves your synchros - its proper way to downshift

[PureVolume707]

umm no actually its fast in and fast out, thats the purpose of racing.... rev matching saves your synchros - its proper way to downshift

actually jgrotkier is right. fast in fast out is how you end up spun out in the grass and also known as a leadfoot.

[jgrotkier]

Originally Posted by bransdaman78 Originally Posted by jgrotkier Originally Posted by MeZ I rev match when I'm out on these back country roads .. its just a smoother way to drive .. and kinda fun .. that way when you enter a turn in 5th and go to 4th you don't get a jerk but rather a smooth transition in and out of the corner in power since you're a gear lower than you entered .. aka go in fast .. come out fast .. and smooth !!! Actually its supposed to be slow in fast out. You want to be in the lower gear before entering the corner so you can get on the gas around the apex of the turn. umm no actually its fast in and fast out, thats the purpose of racing....

umm no actually you're wrong.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/inslow.html

[Breakout]

double clutching was for cars back in the day when clutch syncros weren't as good as they are today. People still do it, but most don't.

[Casper98GT]

bransdaman78 wrote: jgrotkier wrote: MeZ wrote: I rev match when I'm out on these back country roads .. its just a smoother way to drive .. and kinda fun .. that way when you enter a turn in 5th and go to 4th you don't get a jerk but rather a smooth transition in and out of the corner in power since you're a gear lower than you entered .. aka go in fast .. come out fast .. and smooth !!! Actually its supposed to be slow in fast out. You want to be in the lower gear before entering the corner so you can get on the gas around the apex of the turn. umm no actually its fast in and fast out, thats the purpose of racing.... umm no actually you're wrong. http://www.nasaproracing.com/hpde/inslow.html

hahahaha OWNED!

I couldnt tell you who is right but i gave it a quick read. Good info. Dont know the first thing about road racing, but i would like to give it a go. I do some indoor karting up here in NH and its fun. But never used my own car. Better geared for the 1320.

[jgrotkier]

Well heres another article about it if you want to read more ;-)

This doesn't specifically mention slow in fast out but it does talk about how all of the braking should be done before the turn in point...which would equal slow in fast out.

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving..._braking.shtml

[bransdaman78]

Id Love to see how you fucking think there is any other purpose to racing then being as fast as possible in and out... this is just gettin stupid with moron comments.... obviously you dont know how to drive a stick or you'd know the importance of rev matching...

that doesnt equal slow in fast out dumbass, breaking means slow down to a point where you dont loose control of the car... obviously if you go to fast youll spin out... that doesnt me you go slow - its means you learn how to drive... fuck this is stupid

[jgrotkier]

Originally Posted by bransdaman78 Id Love to see how you fucking think there is any other purpose to racing then being as fast as possible in and out... this is just gettin stupid with moron comments.... obviously you dont know how to drive a stick or you'd know the importance of rev matching... that doesnt equal slow in fast out dumbass, breaking means slow down to a point where you dont loose control of the car... obviously if you go to fast youll spin out... that doesnt me you go slow - its means you learn how to drive... fuck this is stupid

Are you fing kidding me? You're joking right?

You entry speed will be SLOWER than your exit speed, hence slow in fast out. Shall I reiterate? Your entry speed will be RELATIVELY slower than your exit speed. Of course you want to get around the track as fast as possible but you can't barrel down on a corner at 100mph and expect to make it around the corner without braking

Don't tell me I don't know how to drive stick. You've never met me and have never seen me drive.

I have actually been to and driven on a road course. Ever heard of Watkins Glen? I bought my car from a founding member of Trackmasters (www.trackmasters.com). He was my instructor in the driving school and was VERY impressed with my driving skills. Don't tell me I don't know how to drive.

Did you even bother reading those articles????

You are wrong.

PS: I do infact know the importance of rev-matching but this argument has nothing to do with rev matching except that you should rev match (actually heal-toe downshift, but I won't go there since I obviously don't know how to drive) BEFORE coming into a corner. NOT DURING THE CORNER.

[bransdaman78]

again, your making an idiot comment, since when did i say the exit and entry speed would be the same, and if you could do that and hold the turn that would be ideal, ... your making this stupid inferences like I have to FUCKING SPELL OUT TO that you have to slow down... that should be a given,

Fast as possible in and fast as possible out - CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW? - jesus christ

[jgrotkier]

Originally Posted by bransdaman78 again, your making an idiot comment, since when did i say the exit and entry speed would be the same, and if you could do that and hold the turn that would be ideal, ... your making this stupid inferences like I have to FUCKING SPELL OUT TO that you have to slow down... that should be a given, Fast as possible in and fast as possible out - CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW? - jesus christ

I understand that, but the basis of your argument is that slow in fast out is not correct. It is a goddamn racing technique and quite simply the way its done.

SLOW IN FAST OUT IS HOW YOU TAKE A CORNER CORRECTLY

On top of that, you said that you downshift DURING a corner. That is the same as decelerating which again is a nono in racing (with the exception of trail braking). You want your car slowed down and settled before turning in. You would have gotten that if you had read either of those links I posted. I would like to see you come into a corner at the threshold of your car's abilities and downshift. Let me know what happens.

[1slo5.0]

Originally Posted by breakout831 double clutching was for cars back in the day when clutch syncros weren't as good as they are today. People still do it, but most don't.

Exactly. Doing it with todays transmissions is pointless.

[bransdaman78]

Originally Posted by jgrotkier Originally Posted by bransdaman78 again, your making an idiot comment, since when did i say the exit and entry speed would be the same, and if you could do that and hold the turn that would be ideal, ... your making this stupid inferences like I have to FUCKING SPELL OUT TO that you have to slow down... that should be a given, Fast as possible in and fast as possible out - CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW? - jesus christ I understand that, but the basis of your argument is that slow in fast out is not correct. It is a goddamn racing technique and quite simply the way its done. SLOW IN FAST OUT IS HOW YOU TAKE A CORNER CORRECTLY On top of that, you said that you downshift DURING a corner. That is the same as decelerating which again is a nono in racing (with the exception of trail braking). You want your car slowed down and settled before turning in. You would have gotten that if you had read either of those links I posted. I would like to see you come into a corner at the threshold of your car's abilities and downshift. Let me know what happens.

ok thats you not knowing your gears.. if you think your going to enter a turn in 4th and exit in 4th,.... ok buddy. yea you come in, downshift while desclerating (gear breaking) and select the gear that keeps you in the right power band to exit... this is not that complicated

this discussion is so dumb its not even funny, not worth arguing or my time.... completely pointless and stupid. Learn how to drive, end of story

[jgrotkier]

Originally Posted by bransdaman78 Originally Posted by jgrotkier Originally Posted by bransdaman78 again, your making an idiot comment, since when did i say the exit and entry speed would be the same, and if you could do that and hold the turn that would be ideal, ... your making this stupid inferences like I have to FUCKING SPELL OUT TO that you have to slow down... that should be a given, Fast as possible in and fast as possible out - CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT NOW? - jesus christ I understand that, but the basis of your argument is that slow in fast out is not correct. It is a goddamn racing technique and quite simply the way its done. SLOW IN FAST OUT IS HOW YOU TAKE A CORNER CORRECTLY On top of that, you said that you downshift DURING a corner. That is the same as decelerating which again is a nono in racing (with the exception of trail braking). You want your car slowed down and settled before turning in. You would have gotten that if you had read either of those links I posted. I would like to see you come into a corner at the threshold of your car's abilities and downshift. Let me know what happens. ok thats you not knowing your gears.. if you think your going to enter a turn in 4th and exit in 4th,.... ok buddy. yea you come in, downshift while desclerating (gear breaking) and select the gear that keeps you in the right power band to exit... this is not that complicated this discussion is so dumb its not even funny, not worth arguing or my time.... completely pointless and stupid. Learn how to drive, end of story

Why locked? Becuase you know you are wrong?

And actually, yes, I do think you will enter a turn in 4th and exit in 4th. The difference is that you will be at the bottom of 4th during entry, and at the top of 4th during the exit. At no point DURING the corner do you want to decelerate or downshift. Ever heard of lift throttle oversteer? Snap Oversteer?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversteer

The natural reaction of most drivers to the perception of loss of control during oversteer is to immediately lift their foot off the gas pedal. Unfortunately, this is exactly the wrong thing to do - it can lead to the treacherous phenomenon of lift-off oversteer. Releasing the throttle pitches the car forward, causing a weight transfer towards the front of the car, thus reducing rear traction even further. The nose of the car rotates sharply toward the inside of the turn as it pitches into a spin. Braking may or may not improve the situation. Most modern cars have a brake bias which tends to straighten out the car. However, there are two factors working against this. Most drivers must lift their foot from the gas pedal in order to press the brake, inducing the spin as described above. The second is that braking transfers more of the vehicle's weight forward which tends to worsen oversteer. Even so, the brake bias may be enough to help or at least not make it worse. The correct reaction to oversteer is to gently steer into the slide and take the power away as needed without pitching the car forward. Indeed, cutting the power mid-corner can induce oversteer even in a front wheel drive vehicle. This is known as lift-off oversteer. "Trail braking," or continuing to apply brake pressure after turning into a curve, can induce oversteer by transferring weight off the rear tires, regardless of whether the car is front, rear or all-wheel drive. Note that in a front wheel drive car it is often better to simply accelerate hard to correct an oversteer slide.

So basically if you start to loose control or are at the end of your car's ability, lifiting off the gas or even braking during a corner causes the rear end to rotate around....which is OVERSTEER. DOWNSHIFTING OR BRAKING DURING A CORNER CAUSES OVERSTEER. Oversteering around a corner, even if you are able to control the slide (aka drifting) is not the fastest way around a corner. You want to avoid oversteering at all costs...and how do you do that?

Slow down and do all of your braking BEFORE entering the corner.