S/C VS Turbo

Turbo6s · January 24th, 2009, 10:39 PM

Yeah im sure you guys get this alot. And I have read one of the other articles on my tiny little site posted up by 94grreenmachine so im going to return the favor. The article I read that was sourced from here was biased and a bit untrue sooo:
"A portion of OUR write up. This site SPECIFIC.
*Note: Check for updates!
Turbo VS Supercharger
OK lets look at the basic kits for the 350z
(this essentially applies to just about any v6 that isn’t pre turboed or SCd)
5k for turbonetics
450hp, pretuned, 6.5psi pulls from anywhere with gobs of torque
With exhaust intake plenum and boost up new wastegate (total price of like 1 grand more) there are people with around 500whp.
4-5k for any supercharger.
400hp, un tuned, 7ish psi
Easy to install.
With 3k of mods looking at a record of 460whp(well its actually far far less, but let’s be optimistic…)
So bang for buck turbo owns sc
Next lets look at how they work to decide who makes more USABLE power.
SC feeds off of the crank to be spun… doesn’t really kick in until the engine’s power band occurs.
Note: On a V8 this is very good for low end power, but on a v6 not really because it will make a bulk of its power higher up.
Turbo: spins from exhaust gasses
Depending on the size a turbo can be fully spooled before 3krpm (Of max like 7K) and still make like 500rwhp.
So supercharged 350z’s are laggy essentially because they don’t make good power until around 4grand.
Turbocharged 350z’s are fast because they can rev and they can spool (3.5ltrs is a lot in the import world)
But what if my car only revs to 4.5k?
If you are talking about a domestic, then you will have no problem making more low end power with a turbo.
Most domestic v6’s have “large” displacement. Everything above 3ltrs is enough to spool some big power turbos with not that much lag (for their power). You can get a small ball bearing turbo, some cams, and a diy port/polish and a crap load of power from like 500rpms. If your car only revs to 4.5krpm look into a un-governor/un-limiter to raise it a few krpm. If you have 3ltrs+ and can rev to 7krpm you are golden.
It is a common myth that turbos lag, in the domestic world. They do essentially have lag no matter what, but that same law of physics applies to Superchargers as well. Furthermore superchargers sap power from the crank, just like a/c does. So technically it can hinder engine response.
If you still think turbos lag, you should look into RB20det forums. 2.0ltr 6cylinders from Nissan’s R32 GTST and GTS4. They have only .333333 liters per cylinder (which on another thread I will explain why this matters) and they can pull (with the right turbo) like 300whp v8’s from the low rpms to the high.
Old turbos and carburetors’ are a combination that sucks (and not in the good Forced Induction way!) which is probably why almost all old domestic guys hate them. This carries on into present day where we have Ball bearing and better Journal Bearing turbos (spool way way way faster and harder) and EFI.
Superchargers can be cheaper off the bat, but in the long run for more power you have to do a lot of work for not that much power.
Superchargers are like the cherry on top of your NA mods, which is another reason they are shit for v-6’s
Mods that compliment S/C’s are:
Headers, exhaust, cams, valves, port/polish, No CAI’s (for both turbo and S/C), pullys (make big power difference if they are for the s/c like 20hp sometimes more) and displacement/comp.
Here’s why that is the suck for v-6’s.
They really DON’T make very much hp naturally aspirated!
S/C don’t push enough air to compensate for the natural aspirated capabilities an engine doesn’t have.
Turbos can push enough air, and now they cost about the same new as a s/c new.
One might argue that this inst true, down the road a turbo will cost more to upgrade things.
This is only partially true.
You will have to pay more for a better tune, bigger injectors, better this that, MAP vs MAF, standalone, piggyback ect all that stuff is because you will have more power. At some point the engine will need upgrading, and finding the point between massive upgrades and utilizing stock parts is tricky but I will post some “rule[s] of thumb” so you can choose how deep you want to go ect. Again you will have to pay ____ more $$$$ because you will be getting ___HP. Sometimes you can double your hp with a handful of parts.
Besides who wants a that whine on a 6cyl? That sounds horrible.
On a v-8 it sounds mean but its just a bunch of s*** on a v-6.
Will be updated later"
^in all its entirety.
Im expecting some retaliation (

) but this is one of those things that needs to get out there. With my ricer background, I know a thing or two about turbo systems and hope to spread the love around, because the sixxers have alot of potential, let alone the v8's (heh 600whp streetcars=v8's).
Link to the thread (on MY site, im Jumper so im not stepping on any toes here)
...

WLJohnson05 · January 24th, 2009, 11:03 PM

maybe you should just check out the stickies that have all about boost...heres the link to the boost thread.
Boost 101

...please do not spam this site for ur forum.

AtlanticBlue99 · January 24th, 2009, 11:08 PM

Nice formatting, Turbo6s. Feel free to educate without the spam.

6ER THEN I 8ER! · January 25th, 2009, 01:09 AM

+1

SleeperStang88 · January 25th, 2009, 02:51 PM

ask your question again but only much shorter that was too much for me to read right now

Turbo6s · January 25th, 2009, 06:57 PM

I was just trying to help spread the word about turbocharging.
I really dont want to push my site like drugs its just now adays everyone seems to go apeshit when you dont site your sources.

I just always feel heartbroken when somone with this great engine goes supercharger because of all the cobras and gts running s/c, while they could (for the same money) have a lot more power throughout the band and potentially get even more power after that for a few bucks.
Im on a crusade if you will.
Again s/ced v-8's are bomb but ill tackle them after I spread my message to the sixxers.
Yeah again im not trying to push my site, im trying to push turbocharging.
And I dont have any money invested in the site, nor any kits or anything really. I dont get money for every kit you buy, I dont loose or recieve anything on any site visit or anything.
100% non profit... nothing like that so im no whore

WLJohnson05 · January 25th, 2009, 07:00 PM

we have nothing against turbos here if u havent noticed.....actually there are several of us that are on here regularly which have a turbo now...u dont have to push turbochargers

Turbo6s · January 25th, 2009, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by WLJohnson05

maybe you should just check out the stickies that have all about boost...heres the link to the boost thread.
Boost 101

...please do not spam this site for ur forum.

also I have read that one and it really doesnt go into the practcal aspects of the two kits, it does but not in a way that most people see it. It goes into prettymuch the most basic of basics how a turbo works... this is more of a "why turbos are better" post. If you want, delete this thread and add it to the original Boost 101 post.
Im not at all trying to whore my site again. And im unsure of what yall mean when you say im spamming my own site. Its a freeforums.org site for christs sake!

Ninjawafers! · January 25th, 2009, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Turbo6s

this is more of a "why turbos are better" post.

that all depends on the application. i am in the process of supercharging my stang, for way cheaper than turbo and it will give me the sound i want, the look in the engine bay i want, and im not shooting for high hp and tq numbers, but i will still have plenty of each. if you want big power turbo is the way to go, but it may not be for everyone

and with one of your first posts on this site basically saying "hey this is from my site read the rest here" is pretty much spamming your site. thats not wanted or welcome. if you want to help out with insiteful information on this site then you are welcome by all means

Turbo6s · January 26th, 2009, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by 3.8Coastie

that all depends on the application. i am in the process of supercharging my stang, for way cheaper than turbo and it will give me the sound i want, the look in the engine bay i want, and im not shooting for high hp and tq numbers, but i will still have plenty of each. if you want big power turbo is the way to go, but it may not be for everyone

and with one of your first posts on this site basically saying "hey this is from my site read the rest here" is pretty much spamming your site. thats not wanted or welcome. if you want to help out with insiteful information on this site then you are welcome by all means

Like i said its a free forums site.
Hardly means anything. Im going to build it up as a tool to help people.
And btw the reason I say turbo is better is because you may think that s/c is enough, but after 6months you will want somthing faster.
That is just simply human nature. Thats why you upgraded it in the first place: stock wasnt fast enough for you. It could get the job done, but you wanted more. There really are very few people who dont end up wanting somthing to get them faster after they mod their cars.
"hey this is from my site read the rest here" is not what I said.
EDIT*If you actually went to the site you would see that there isnt any more. I just want credit for it on MY site.*End Edit
I merely told where I got it from, and because I own the site I obviously give myself permission to post it. I put that it will be updated in there because thats EXACTLY how it is on the site.
I'm only folowing standard protocol. Most sites ask "where the f did that come or gtfo", and now im being accused of spamming.
Im only trying to help people. I thought people would be appreciative of some good info, and im getting attacked for "whoring" a free forums site....

Seriously WTF

?

WLJohnson05 · January 26th, 2009, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Turbo6s

Like i said its a free forums site.
Hardly means anything. Im going to build it up as a tool to help people.
And btw the reason I say turbo is better is because you may think that s/c is enough, but after 6months you will want somthing faster.
That is just simply human nature. Thats why you upgraded it in the first place: stock wasnt fast enough for you. It could get the job done, but you wanted more. There really are very few people who dont end up wanting somthing to get them faster after they mod their cars.
"hey this is from my site read the rest here" is not what I said.
EDIT*If you actually went to the site you would see that there isnt any more. I just want credit for it on MY site.*End Edit
I merely told where I got it from, and because I own the site I obviously give myself permission to post it. I put that it will be updated in there because thats EXACTLY how it is on the site.
I'm only folowing standard protocol. Most sites ask "where the f did that come or gtfo", and now im being accused of spamming.
Im only trying to help people. I thought people would be appreciative of some good info, and im getting attacked for "whoring" a free forums site....
Seriously WTF ?

ur just telling people whats already known and in the process u are promoting a forum which is not allowed. i am currently reworking the boost thread that was made here a while back to provide all the information for both sides of the boost.

WLJohnson05 · January 26th, 2009, 02:07 AM

here ya go bud, have fun reading.
Everything Turbo & Supercharger

Turbo6s · January 26th, 2009, 02:09 AM

I again am merely siting the source.
shit.
and saying that is already known is like saying bush didnt lie about them Nuclear Wepons.
It really isnt around here. Ive read almost all your turbo articles.
Fix it then remove this thread. Please

WLJohnson05 · January 26th, 2009, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by Turbo6s

I again am merely siting the source.
shit.
and saying that is already known is like saying bush didnt lie about them Nuclear Wepons.
It really isnt around here. Ive read almost all your turbo articles.
Fix it then remove this thread. Please

well there is plenty to read here

...and since u brought it up before i close this thread, they did find weapons of mass destruction, just kept it on the down low for moving them out but good try on that

thread closed.

AtlanticBlue99 · January 26th, 2009, 01:03 PM

Damn trolls.

January 24th, 2009, 10:39 PM	#1
Turbo6s Newbie Not A Stang Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 15 iTrader: 0 reviews	S/C VS Turbo Yeah im sure you guys get this alot. And I have read one of the other articles on my tiny little site posted up by 94grreenmachine so im going to return the favor. The article I read that was sourced from here was biased and a bit untrue sooo: "A portion of OUR write up. This site SPECIFIC. Note: Check for updates! Turbo VS Supercharger OK lets look at the basic kits for the 350z (this essentially applies to just about any v6 that isn’t pre turboed or SCd) 5k for turbonetics 450hp, pretuned, 6.5psi pulls from anywhere with gobs of torque With exhaust intake plenum and boost up new wastegate (total price of like 1 grand more) there are people with around 500whp. 4-5k for any supercharger. 400hp, un tuned, 7ish psi Easy to install. With 3k of mods looking at a record of 460whp(well its actually far far less, but let’s be optimistic…) So bang for buck turbo owns sc Next lets look at how they work to decide who makes more USABLE power. SC feeds off of the crank to be spun… doesn’t really kick in until the engine’s power band occurs. Note: On a V8 this is very good for low end power, but on a v6 not really because it will make a bulk of its power higher up. Turbo: spins from exhaust gasses Depending on the size a turbo can be fully spooled before 3krpm (Of max like 7K) and still make like 500rwhp. So supercharged 350z’s are laggy essentially because they don’t make good power until around 4grand. Turbocharged 350z’s are fast because they can rev and they can spool (3.5ltrs is a lot in the import world) But what if my car only revs to 4.5k? If you are talking about a domestic, then you will have no problem making more low end power with a turbo. Most domestic v6’s have “large” displacement. Everything above 3ltrs is enough to spool some big power turbos with not that much lag (for their power). You can get a small ball bearing turbo, some cams, and a diy port/polish and a crap load of power from like 500rpms. If your car only revs to 4.5krpm look into a un-governor/un-limiter to raise it a few krpm. If you have 3ltrs+ and can rev to 7krpm you are golden. It is a common myth that turbos lag, in the domestic world. They do essentially have lag no matter what, but that same law of physics applies to Superchargers as well. Furthermore superchargers sap power from the crank, just like a/c does. So technically it can hinder engine response. If you still think turbos lag, you should look into RB20det forums. 2.0ltr 6cylinders from Nissan’s R32 GTST and GTS4. They have only .333333 liters per cylinder (which on another thread I will explain why this matters) and they can pull (with the right turbo) like 300whp v8’s from the low rpms to the high. Old turbos and carburetors’ are a combination that sucks (and not in the good Forced Induction way!) which is probably why almost all old domestic guys hate them. This carries on into present day where we have Ball bearing and better Journal Bearing turbos (spool way way way faster and harder) and EFI. Superchargers can be cheaper off the bat, but in the long run for more power you have to do a lot of work for not that much power. Superchargers are like the cherry on top of your NA mods, which is another reason they are shit for v-6’s Mods that compliment S/C’s are: Headers, exhaust, cams, valves, port/polish, No CAI’s (for both turbo and S/C), pullys (make big power difference if they are for the s/c like 20hp sometimes more) and displacement/comp. Here’s why that is the suck for v-6’s. They really DON’T make very much hp naturally aspirated! S/C don’t push enough air to compensate for the natural aspirated capabilities an engine doesn’t have. Turbos can push enough air, and now they cost about the same new as a s/c new. One might argue that this inst true, down the road a turbo will cost more to upgrade things. This is only partially true. You will have to pay more for a better tune, bigger injectors, better this that, MAP vs MAF, standalone, piggyback ect all that stuff is because you will have more power. At some point the engine will need upgrading, and finding the point between massive upgrades and utilizing stock parts is tricky but I will post some “rule[s] of thumb” so you can choose how deep you want to go ect. Again you will have to pay ____ more $$$$ because you will be getting ___HP. Sometimes you can double your hp with a handful of parts. Besides who wants a that whine on a 6cyl? That sounds horrible. On a v-8 it sounds mean but its just a bunch of s** on a v-6. Will be updated later" ^in all its entirety. Im expecting some retaliation () but this is one of those things that needs to get out there. With my ricer background, I know a thing or two about turbo systems and hope to spread the love around, because the sixxers have alot of potential, let alone the v8's (heh 600whp streetcars=v8's). Link to the thread (on MY site, im Jumper so im not stepping on any toes here) ... Last edited by WLJohnson05; January 24th, 2009 at 11:04 PM.

January 24th, 2009, 11:03 PM	#2
WLJohnson05 MM's Database Error 2004 Mustang V6 322.8 rwhp Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: VA Posts: 13,106 iTrader: 8 reviews	maybe you should just check out the stickies that have all about boost...heres the link to the boost thread. Boost 101 ...please do not spam this site for ur forum. __________________ I'm trying to get rid of this stuff, feel free to make me an offer!: Kenwood Head Unit $155 SCT Mass Air Flow Sensor $200 Tial Wastegate Springs $40 (10psi and 3.6psi)

January 24th, 2009, 11:08 PM	#3
AtlanticBlue99 I Post Entirely Way Too Much 1999 Ford Mustang V6 14.79 @ 92.15 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: University of Georgia Posts: 8,859 Blog Entries: 1 iTrader: 0 reviews	Nice formatting, Turbo6s. Feel free to educate without the spam. __________________ ModdedAutos 1999 Mustang V6 I used to list my mods here but stopped when I exceeded 255 characters.

January 25th, 2009, 01:09 AM	#4
6ER THEN I 8ER! Premium Member 3.9L V6 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Portland, TN Posts: 20,970 iTrader: 1 reviews	+1 __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] 6k HIDs - Rear Sway Bar - Mac Prochamber - Goodridge Gstop SS Lines - Lots of Visual Fun - Go Fast Mods (no point in buying...it's a v6) Want to see your car as art...ask me how

January 25th, 2009, 06:57 PM	#6
Turbo6s Newbie Not A Stang Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 15 iTrader: 0 reviews	Not trying to spam... I was just trying to help spread the word about turbocharging. I really dont want to push my site like drugs its just now adays everyone seems to go apeshit when you dont site your sources. I just always feel heartbroken when somone with this great engine goes supercharger because of all the cobras and gts running s/c, while they could (for the same money) have a lot more power throughout the band and potentially get even more power after that for a few bucks. Im on a crusade if you will. Again s/ced v-8's are bomb but ill tackle them after I spread my message to the sixxers. Yeah again im not trying to push my site, im trying to push turbocharging. And I dont have any money invested in the site, nor any kits or anything really. I dont get money for every kit you buy, I dont loose or recieve anything on any site visit or anything. 100% non profit... nothing like that so im no whore __________________ turbo6s.freeforums.org

January 25th, 2009, 02:51 PM	#5
SleeperStang88 Regular 2000 Mustang V6 need to run at track Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 361 iTrader: 2 reviews	ask your question again but only much shorter that was too much for me to read right now

January 25th, 2009, 07:00 PM	#7
WLJohnson05 MM's Database Error 2004 Mustang V6 322.8 rwhp Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: VA Posts: 13,106 iTrader: 8 reviews	we have nothing against turbos here if u havent noticed.....actually there are several of us that are on here regularly which have a turbo now...u dont have to push turbochargers __________________ I'm trying to get rid of this stuff, feel free to make me an offer!: Kenwood Head Unit $155 SCT Mass Air Flow Sensor $200 Tial Wastegate Springs $40 (10psi and 3.6psi)

January 26th, 2009, 02:07 AM	#12
WLJohnson05 MM's Database Error 2004 Mustang V6 322.8 rwhp Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: VA Posts: 13,106 iTrader: 8 reviews	here ya go bud, have fun reading. Everything Turbo & Supercharger __________________ I'm trying to get rid of this stuff, feel free to make me an offer!: Kenwood Head Unit $155 SCT Mass Air Flow Sensor $200 Tial Wastegate Springs $40 (10psi and 3.6psi)

January 26th, 2009, 02:09 AM	#13
Turbo6s Newbie Not A Stang Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: SoCal Posts: 15 iTrader: 0 reviews	I again am merely siting the source. shit. and saying that is already known is like saying bush didnt lie about them Nuclear Wepons. It really isnt around here. Ive read almost all your turbo articles. Fix it then remove this thread. Please __________________ turbo6s.freeforums.org

January 26th, 2009, 01:03 PM	#15
AtlanticBlue99 I Post Entirely Way Too Much 1999 Ford Mustang V6 14.79 @ 92.15 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: University of Georgia Posts: 8,859 Blog Entries: 1 iTrader: 0 reviews	Damn trolls. __________________ ModdedAutos 1999 Mustang V6 I used to list my mods here but stopped when I exceeded 255 characters.

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S/C VS Turbo

S/C VS Turbo

Not trying to spam...