[radomirthegreat]

I have read the "look here before asking..." section. It is extremely informative, and thanks so much for writing that. I would like to ask more specific questions. The Mustang I would like to mod is a year 2000 3.8L V6, completely stock, with a 5-spd transmission. Are there RPO codes to look up my drive ratio and other things that would be important to know when modding?

1.) Since the MAF sensor is by the filter and in front of the throttle body, can I polish the TB except for around the lip? Is any polishing after the MAF sensor not going to work with the stock tune?

2.) The Windstar intake. Is it doable on a 2000 Mustang? I have one Windstar UIM (Upper Intake Manifold, don't know if you use the same acronyms). It would be cheaper than the kit for me to port it as necessary and paint it. Does it bolt on with my current throttle body? Why is the IAC port moved? Can I retain it, and would I need to have the Windstar IAC? How does the EGR mount to it, and do I need to custom-make something?

3.) I see most things 99+ parts are desired. Heads are a very expensive mod. How does the stock casting look? At which point during modding would it make sense to upgrade the heads?

4.) I have a couple Bonnevilles, and by modding I have come by having 5 superchargers sitting around. I have 3 Eaton M62s and 2 Eaton M90s. How much work is needed to fit an M90 on a 3.8L V6? Does anyone make a LIM for it? Does it take an EGR delete? The Bonneville's IAC is a lot different from the Mustang's. If the new LIM imitates the M90 bolt pattern, I could use a Grand Prix/Bonneville intercooler.

5.) I noticed the SCT tuner, and that seems like the thing to get. Can I go to a junkyard and pick up a set of bigger fuel injectors that would fit, or does no other Ford use compatible ones? At which point during modding do the OE fuel injectors max out? Also, what is stock timing? How much can you increase the ignition timing, on average, before you get engine knock? How sensitive are the knock sensors? Finally, will an SCT tuner let me wipe out a multiple misfire code for a rough cam? Is that even a concern in Mustangs?

6.) Can I see a picture that shows blacked out tail lights on a black Mustang? I saw my local rice shop sells VHT Night Shades for $15 per can. Just want to see what I would be getting into.

[radomirthegreat]

I just asked at a Mustang performance shop, and I was told that as long as I don't modify the MAF housing, I can port and polish the throttle body and everything behind it. One thing I don't understand is the Ford Windstar intake. Does that fit on the previous generation of the 3.8? If so, I guess I could pick up the 3.8L V6 LIM from that older style engine. Would that help me relocate the throttle body?

[white03v6]

"2.) The Windstar intake. Is it doable on a 2000 Mustang? I have one Windstar UIM (Upper Intake Manifold, don't know if you use the same acronyms). It would be cheaper than the kit for me to port it as necessary and paint it. Does it bolt on with my current throttle body? Why is the IAC port moved? Can I retain it, and would I need to have the Windstar IAC? How does the EGR mount to it, and do I need to custom-make something?

4.) I have a couple Bonnevilles, and by modding I have come by having 5 superchargers sitting around. I have 3 Eaton M62s and 2 Eaton M90s. How much work is needed to fit an M90 on a 3.8L V6? Does anyone make a LIM for it? Does it take an EGR delete? The Bonneville's IAC is a lot different from the Mustang's. If the new LIM imitates the M90 bolt pattern, I could use a Grand Prix/Bonneville intercooler."

this is all i can answer...since you have a 2000 3.8 youll need to do a single port intake swap which will result in a 40hp loss, only to gain slightly more than 40hp. not worth it at all. and vapauto.com has a complete 99-04 bolt on windstar kit for 99-04.

[radomirthegreat]

With a 2000 3.8, is it then still possible to put on a Windstar UIM without changing the LIM or the throttle body? I wouldn't mind keeping the Windstar IAC. Why does VAP clarify that it retains the PCV? Is that not an option if I go the non-VAP way? Thanks for the help so far.

[WLJohnson05]

Originally Posted by radomirthegreat With a 2000 3.8, is it then still possible to put on a Windstar UIM without changing the LIM or the throttle body? I wouldn't mind keeping the Windstar IAC. Why does VAP clarify that it retains the PCV? Is that not an option if I go the non-VAP way? Thanks for the help so far.

yes if u use the 96-98 windstar upper then it will bolt up to the stock lower of a 99-04.
there are always ways to keep ur pcv. not sure on the differences but u can keep it.

[fasternu_674]

There is a pic of when I tinted my rears. I basically have the same car as you only mine is pretty heavily modded. Let me know if you have any questions, I will try to help as much as I can.

[radomirthegreat]

Nice picture! That's pretty much what I was looking for. I don't know if that's too dark for my friend's taste. It's my friend's Mustang, and I'm just modding along for the ride. Regardless, you are welcome to assume I own a Mustang because it's ultimately the same.

Anyway, if the 96-98 Windstar intake is a bolt-on, then I'm all set. Is there an opening to the crankcase? I could use a 3.0L Duratec PCV. That one is a valve that sits at the end of a vacuum tube that reaches to the crankcase. We just put on a fender well intake with a K&N filter. Pictures will be uploaded shortly. It appears to me that we just need to change two angles to fit the Windstar intake, which should be very easy to do. We just started modding today, and we already have MAC LT headers on the way.

Speaking of LT headers, what's your recommended MIL eliminator? I looked up this:
TeamNECO - MIL Eliminator How To
Seems easy to do, I think, but is there more to make it worth the extra cost to buy a ready-made MIL eliminator?

What are the next few mods we could do? Since we'll be getting headers, I was thinking of doing a cam. That would be awesome, but how much work is it in a Mustang? How easy is it to remove the valve covers? We could just put on higher ratio rockers. If so, can stock rockers be modded, or do I have to buy new ones, preferably rollers? I'm not familiar with the oiling system, but I assume the pushrods duct oil at a high enough oil pressure that we'd need to get oil restricting rods to use roller rockers.

[fasternu_674]

Originally Posted by radomirthegreat Nice picture! That's pretty much what I was looking for. I don't know if that's too dark for my friend's taste. It's my friend's Mustang, and I'm just modding along for the ride. Regardless, you are welcome to assume I own a Mustang because it's ultimately the same. Anyway, if the 96-98 Windstar intake is a bolt-on, then I'm all set. Is there an opening to the crankcase? I could use a 3.0L Duratec PCV. That one is a valve that sits at the end of a vacuum tube that reaches to the crankcase. We just put on a fender well intake with a K&N filter. Pictures will be uploaded shortly. It appears to me that we just need to change two angles to fit the Windstar intake, which should be very easy to do. We just started modding today, and we already have MAC LT headers on the way. Speaking of LT headers, what's your recommended MIL eliminator? I looked up this: TeamNECO - MIL Eliminator How To Seems easy to do, I think, but is there more to make it worth the extra cost to buy a ready-made MIL eliminator? What are the next few mods we could do? Since we'll be getting headers, I was thinking of doing a cam. That would be awesome, but how much work is it in a Mustang? How easy is it to remove the valve covers? We could just put on higher ratio rockers. If so, can stock rockers be modded, or do I have to buy new ones, preferably rollers? I'm not familiar with the oiling system, but I assume the pushrods duct oil at a high enough oil pressure that we'd need to get oil restricting rods to use roller rockers.

As for the MIL eliminators I just extended my O2 sensors myself when I installed my longtubes, took some time but easier on the wallet then buying them.

The next upgrades I would say would be the CAI, gears, t-lok, or a 8.8 rear end and a handheld tuner. Once you get to that point you can do an Head/Cam/Iintake swap. Doing everything at once allows you to get better gains from everything and saves you money in the long run. I just finished doing a H/C/I swap. The swap was pretty easy to do if you have a good knowledge of how a motor works. You basically have to strip the motor down inside the bay, not hard to do just take your time and label everything. Here are a few pics of my motor when I got most everything swapped. Check out my garage for my mod list. It is pretty detailed about everything I have done.

[winnie51189]

The reason for relocation iac valve on the windstar UIM is to fit it under a stock hood. If you aren't getting a swap kit then yes you will have to fabricate your own mounting brackets as well as modify the throttlebody, more than likely you will also have to put a spacer on your accelerator pedal otherwise it will sit on the carpet. A CAI fender well kit is completely worthless if you do the windstar swap because it relocates the TB from the passenger side of the engine to the front.

[fasternu_674]

If you do the Windstar swap it would be best to fab up your own CAI to put the filter in the fender. Good point winnie51189

[winnie51189]

Originally Posted by fasternu_674 If you do the Windstar swap it would be best to fab up your own CAI to put the filter in the fender. Good point winnie51189

That's what I did.

[radomirthegreat]

The intake my friend and I installed has two tubes, one to the MAF from the filter and one to the TB from the MAF. They have the right bends to go to the stock UIM, but I'm sure it would be very easy to get just one tube to fit it to the Windstar intake.

From those pictures, I see the 3.8 has a balance shaft. Is that a problem with high lift cams? The balance shaft in the GM 3800 has to be removed with a Stage 3 or 4 cam because it does more harm than good. Any problems with roughness once a huge cam is in place? Are those rockers the roller type or just flat?

How do the rear O2 sensors work with Magnaflow high flow cats? I have one 2.5" in/out that I was planning to use, but I'm going catless on my Bonneville. My other Bonneville will have a 3" exhaust, so there's no need for this. I'd really like to find a use for it, and it looks like that would work, I hope. Don't Mustangs have 4 cats? The Bonnevilles have 1, and they pass emissions even when running pretty badly. Overall, how sensitive are the rear O2 sensors? Let's say they throw a code, is it really bad to run in open loop until I get a MIL eliminator?

I'm on the fence over the Windstar intake actually because I'm strongly considering an M90 top swap. I have a couple M90s from all my Bonneville modding. The SSEi model comes stock with a supercharger. What would it take, LIM-wise, to fit one on there? Are we still good to go with a Taurus/Sable 3.0L Duratec PCV?

[BlkY2k]

The windstar is def. doable swap, but I suggest you checkout VAP Auto - Windstar Kit They sell a complete kit to install the windstar. The m90 is doable but why? You would have to swap out your splitport to a singleport then convert everything over to the m90 all to gain what 10hp maybe. I would check the supercoupe forums on that one or run a search over on v6power.net first as there a few people who have already done it over there G/L.

[radomirthegreat]

The VAP Auto kit is what I'm trying to avoid because it's relatively insanely expensive. As for the M90, I doubt there would be only a 10hp gain, but it may be a concern. The splitport to singleport conversion is horrible for NA cars, but it shouldn't matter with forced induction. The M90 comes with a 3.8" pulley, but there are aftermarket pulleys that go down to 2.6". What's the size of the 3.8L's harmonic balancer?

[fasternu_674]

Originally Posted by radomirthegreat The intake my friend and I installed has two tubes, one to the MAF from the filter and one to the TB from the MAF. They have the right bends to go to the stock UIM, but I'm sure it would be very easy to get just one tube to fit it to the Windstar intake. From those pictures, I see the 3.8 has a balance shaft. Is that a problem with high lift cams? The balance shaft in the GM 3800 has to be removed with a Stage 3 or 4 cam because it does more harm than good. Any problems with roughness once a huge cam is in place? Are those rockers the roller type or just flat? How do the rear O2 sensors work with Magnaflow high flow cats? I have one 2.5" in/out that I was planning to use, but I'm going catless on my Bonneville. My other Bonneville will have a 3" exhaust, so there's no need for this. I'd really like to find a use for it, and it looks like that would work, I hope. Don't Mustangs have 4 cats? The Bonnevilles have 1, and they pass emissions even when running pretty badly. Overall, how sensitive are the rear O2 sensors? Let's say they throw a code, is it really bad to run in open loop until I get a MIL eliminator? I'm on the fence over the Windstar intake actually because I'm strongly considering an M90 top swap. I have a couple M90s from all my Bonneville modding. The SSEi model comes stock with a supercharger. What would it take, LIM-wise, to fit one on there? Are we still good to go with a Taurus/Sable 3.0L Duratec PCV?

The balance shaft does not interefere with the cam, doesn't even come close to it. I have had no problems with roughness with my cam and it seems to be one of the larger that I have seen people install. The rockers I have are Harland Sharp Rocker Rollers, with the 1.73 ratio. You want these if you do any cam or head modifications. If you don't plan on doing any cam or head mods get the 1.8 ratio RR. They give you more power with the stock setup.

The rear O2 sensors work just fine. They don't need to be extended at all. The front O2 sensors do need to be extended though. or you can just get the MIL eliminator like you were talking about. Yes the V6 mustang does have 4 cats. Those will be deleted when you install your longtube headers. so you will need to get some new ones, I am assuming you are wanting to go with duel exhaust so you will need two cats and then either an H or X pipe, most guys prefer the H pipe because it is less raspy at higher RPM. Running an open loop to your rears isn't the greatest. It will cause your motor to run too rich thus giving you terrible gas mileage. Which is what O2 sensors do.

On the intake swap I would recommend either windstar or porting and polishing the stock upper intake. I bought a ported and polished upper and lower intake to go with my heads and cam. Many guys are doing the windsar because it has longer runners which allows for more torque. Which is a cheaper alternative to porting and polishing the stock intake. It all depends on what look you are going for under the hood. Like mine looks completely stock but is not even close to it.

I would not recommend an M90 swap. As stated above you will have to swap your entire top end which will result in a 40 hp loss so then your m90 has to make up for that lost Hp just to bring you back to stock numbers. Its up to you though. I would recommend sticking with the split port setup and just getting some port work done.

I am unsure on the PCV, still have my stock one on. So I haven't messed with it. Has functioned fine for me so far.

[gloomshadow]

This may be off topic but I gotta ask..

I am not familiar with the Windstar intake at all..what the deal? Its single port but is it the same lower intake maniflold thats on my 95 3.8 but with a different upper,or what? And If I wanted the swap could I just get away with the Windstar upper intake or what?.. And what would I gain on a 95 if I did it?

Just wondering if one could do anything for my single port set-up.

[ewells2420]

You cannot do the windstar swap on a single port. The windstar is done on splitports because the longer runners are longer for more TQ and it flows better for a little more HP too.

You have to relocate several things as well like your TB, IAT, and the throttle cable assembly. If you wanted to, you could do the splitport swap and gain about 40HP THEN do the windstar swap for an additional 10-12HP

[gloomshadow]

Originally Posted by ewells2420 You cannot do the windstar swap on a single port. The windstar is done on splitports because the longer runners are longer for more TQ and it flows better for a little more HP too. You have to relocate several things as well like your TB, IAT, and the throttle cable assembly. If you wanted to, you could do the splitport swap and gain about 40HP THEN do the windstar swap for an additional 10-12HP

So I can swipe the whole top end off of a Windstar, Heads and all and I can gain 50hp and some tourqe? What about the cam off of a windstar? Different cam profile? If so, what would that give me?

[ewells2420]

im pretty sure the cam is the same. But im not 100% sure about using the windstar heads/lower intake. I think its the same as the mustang but not sure.

[radomirthegreat]

Originally Posted by fasternu_674 The balance shaft does not interefere with the cam, doesn't even come close to it. I have had no problems with roughness with my cam and it seems to be one of the larger that I have seen people install. The rockers I have are Harland Sharp Rocker Rollers, with the 1.73 ratio. You want these if you do any cam or head modifications. If you don't plan on doing any cam or head mods get the 1.8 ratio RR. They give you more power with the stock setup.

The balance shaft actually doesn't help the balance of the engine. It is not figured into the calculations of the balance of the rotating and reciprocating parts of the engine. It is used to remove vibration at lower engine speeds. If you install an aftermarket cam, the balance shaft is actually counter-productive. It doesn’t help with idle vibration and it can cause vibration issues at higher RPMs. That can reduce engine life and HP.

Originally Posted by fasternu_674 The rear O2 sensors work just fine. They don't need to be extended at all. The front O2 sensors do need to be extended though. or you can just get the MIL eliminator like you were talking about. Yes the V6 mustang does have 4 cats. Those will be deleted when you install your longtube headers. so you will need to get some new ones, I am assuming you are wanting to go with duel exhaust so you will need two cats and then either an H or X pipe, most guys prefer the H pipe because it is less raspy at higher RPM. Running an open loop to your rears isn't the greatest. It will cause your motor to run too rich thus giving you terrible gas mileage. Which is what O2 sensors do.

Are there 4 O2 sensors total? By front, I assume you mean the first two O2 sensors before the cats. I think those would be much more important to keep than the rear ones. As I'm aware, rear O2 sensors are used to make sure the cats are running well, not clogged, and not removed. I could easily get O2 bungs installed in the headers, can't I? Shouldn't be too bad, I think. That would take care of the front O2 sensors. Will the rear O2s not cause any trouble if I simply use two Magnaflow cats, one per side? That's not only half as many cats, but also it's slightly less catalyzing material per cat.

Originally Posted by fasternu_674 I would not recommend an M90 swap. As stated above you will have to swap your entire top end which will result in a 40 hp loss so then your m90 has to make up for that lost Hp just to bring you back to stock numbers. Its up to you though. I would recommend sticking with the split port setup and just getting some port work done.

I have been looking into this, and it does seem like a very involved swap. The M90 used on the SC T-birds is slightly different in design than the M90 used on Bonnevilles. In the Bonneville world, naturally aspirated 3800s have 9.4:1 pistons and 205 HP. The supercharged Bonnevilles have 8.5:1 pistons and 240 HP. I'm aware the Mustang's 3.8 has higher compression than 8.5, so it would be like supercharging an NA Bonneville. That usually goes up to 250HP. A pulley drop from 3.8 to 3.5 is very popular, and it gains horsepower also in the tens. If I can get a LIM that lets the Bonneville's M90 bolt on to the Mustang's 3.8, I can use a Bonneville-oriented intercooler, which is a lot smaller than the SC version.

For now I am going with either porting or the Windstar intake because of the risks in breaking the crank, bending rods, or cracking pistons. Hopefully soon, I will start working on the M90 top swap and a bottom end overhaul. My M90 swap plan is a lot easier as long as you use a new hood with a ton more clearance. Are any of the 3.8's parts forged? I know that in some cases, stock bottom ends can take hundreds of horses and torque, but what's the average breaking point?