[Codeman]

Ok, so I plan on getting some shorty headers this spring. I know I know, do not try to change my mind. They are going to work for what I need. My question is, which ones to get, I am looking at BBK, or MAC. The MAC are cheaper, am just curious if they are pretty mush the same. The tube diameters are exactly the same.

[Matt.]

get rims my friend.

Also i have heard good things about the MAC, BBK has been know to have problums with there products, idk about headers. But I would go with MAC being its the same product for a smaller price and BBK has a shady rep

[Codeman]

alright thanks. I figured they should be pretty equal since they are both the same diameter. and as far as the rims go. im fine with my stock ones, our roads are rough and rocky so the nice rims would get all chipped up. i am prolly just going to buy some 15 inch lightweights for drag racing.

[Matt.]

aww =/, but goodluck with the headers man tell me how they turn out cuase I might get some too

[Codeman]

alright i will. i know everyone says shortys are junk and not worth it, but in my case they are going to be. i will try to get a sound link up to compare the two. i have to wait until spring tho, too much snow and too cold now.

[stangcharger]

Originally Posted by Codeman alright i will. i know everyone says shortys are junk and not worth it, but in my case they are going to be. i will try to get a sound link up to compare the two. i have to wait until spring tho, too much snow and too cold now.

MAC all the way. My exhaust is full MAC from headers to catback.


How will the shorties work in your situation? just curious.

honestly just keep the stockers if you want shorties. They will both do sufficient for the same goal. Spend the money elsewhere.

[lcorriveau3]

Correct me if I am wrong but, don't our stock (99-04) manifolds make within 1-2 hp of shorties??

[stangcharger]

Originally Posted by lcorriveau3 Correct me if I am wrong but, don't our stock (99-04) manifolds make within 1-2 hp of shorties??

somewhere around that number yes.

[Codeman]

I want the shorties, because they have to flow better than our stock ones. If you look at the design they have to. Sure they may not flow as well as lts, but there are two reasons that i do not want LTs. The first being that i think that they make our cars way too loud. I really do. even with mufflers. I just do not want to attract more attention then needed. The other thing that I do not like about LTs is the fact that they move the powerband to higher rpms, sacraficing low end torque. I do a lot of light to light racing where I want the low end torque, i do not ever really get up to the high rpms. Next, i think that the shorties just add some more to the exhaust note. They do not make it so loud, but they just make it sound more crisp. These are my reasons.

[Codeman]

the other reason that i am thinking shorties is because i plan on trying to piece together a custom turbo kit. after doing a lot of research i decided a turbo would work much better for me than a supercharger. and after doing a lot of research i found that with some time, i could make a decent kit myself. i am not planning it for this summer, but it is going to be an on going project. and i am going to be welding and fitting tubing and over time hopefully i will get it done.

[ESG-642T]

Originally Posted by Codeman I want the shorties, because they have to flow better than our stock ones. If you look at the design they have to. Sure they may not flow as well as lts, but there are two reasons that i do not want LTs. The first being that i think that they make our cars way too loud. I really do. even with mufflers. I just do not want to attract more attention then needed. The other thing that I do not like about LTs is the fact that they move the powerband to higher rpms, sacraficing low end torque. I do a lot of light to light racing where I want the low end torque, i do not ever really get up to the high rpms. Next, i think that the shorties just add some more to the exhaust note. They do not make it so loud, but they just make it sound more crisp. These are my reasons.

You don't have enough mods for them to flow better, this has been dyno tested by somebody on 3.8 already and didn't gain anything. Infact I think he lost 1-2 hp. Lets see too loud is an option, you can do long tubes with stock gt / mach mufflers and it won't sound loud at all. The powerband gets moved up while you get added power down low your looking at this the wrong way. And shorties only "smooth" the exhaust tone a very small bit.

[Codeman]

Well how does that work? If the shorties will not gain anything because i do not have enough mods for them to flow better, how come lts would gain anything besides shifting the power band? I am really jc?

EDIT: I totally agree with you on them not really doing anything because i do not have mods. I understand it is pointless without ported heads or a cam, but if you look at it the other way then lts really are doing absolutely nothing except changing the power band to higher in the rpms, and also they are going to cause you to loose even more torque because you are deleting the cats in most cases. Look at monster trucks, i do not know if you watch monster jam, but i do and a lot of the trucks used to run just zoomy headers with no collector or anything, now the new thing is to run a collector and a muffler on the bottom, they do this to gain more torque. So this just shows that sure you may get may? get more hp higher up with lts because of the powerband change, but you are loosing a lot more down low due to a loss in backpressure.

[ESG-642T]

Originally Posted by Codeman Well how does that work? If the shorties will not gain anything because i do not have enough mods for them to flow better, how come lts would gain anything besides shifting the power band? I am really jc? EDIT: I totally agree with you on them not really doing anything because i do not have mods. I understand it is pointless without ported heads or a cam, but if you look at it the other way then lts really are doing absolutely nothing except changing the power band to higher in the rpms, and also they are going to cause you to loose even more torque because you are deleting the cats in most cases. Look at monster trucks, i do not know if you watch monster jam, but i do and a lot of the trucks used to run just zoomy headers with no collector or anything, now the new thing is to run a collector and a muffler on the bottom, they do this to gain more torque. So this just shows that sure you may get may? get more hp higher up with lts because of the powerband change, but you are loosing a lot more down low due to a loss in backpressure.

Your not going to lose anything down low because of the long tubes, its been proven over and over on the dyno on our cars on 3.8 and more importantly v6power.net - As far as the monster trucks they aren't running a muffler to gain torque they are doing this because the stadiums are requiring them to become quieter because they are so loud.

[winnie51189]

Originally Posted by Codeman Well how does that work? If the shorties will not gain anything because i do not have enough mods for them to flow better, how come lts would gain anything besides shifting the power band? I am really jc? EDIT: I totally agree with you on them not really doing anything because i do not have mods. I understand it is pointless without ported heads or a cam, but if you look at it the other way then lts really are doing absolutely nothing except changing the power band to higher in the rpms, and also they are going to cause you to loose even more torque because you are deleting the cats in most cases. Look at monster trucks, i do not know if you watch monster jam, but i do and a lot of the trucks used to run just zoomy headers with no collector or anything, now the new thing is to run a collector and a muffler on the bottom, they do this to gain more torque. So this just shows that sure you may get may? get more hp higher up with lts because of the powerband change, but you are loosing a lot more down low due to a loss in backpressure.

Really no point in arguing about headers when there are so many factors in what makes one header better than another. Honestly it all depends on the application. For when possible you want to pair the headers tubes with opposing exaust strokes, so they fire one after another, this causes the stroke of one tube to help scavenge the exhaust from the other tube. The better you scavenge the exhaust gasses from the heads the better gains. Tuned headers are always better than non tuned headers. Also try to think of the engine as a pump, the inlet and outlets must be balanced in order to prolong life and performance. If you increase the input you must increase the output so they compliment each other, otherwise you are harming your engine life and performance.

[ESG-642T]

Originally Posted by winnie51189 Really no point in arguing about headers when there are so many factors in what makes one header better than another. Honestly it all depends on the application. For when possible you want to pair the headers tubes with opposing exaust strokes, so they fire one after another, this causes the stroke of one tube to help scavenge the exhaust from the other tube. The better you scavenge the exhaust gasses from the heads the better gains. Tuned headers are always better than non tuned headers. Also try to think of the engine as a pump, the inlet and outlets must be balanced in order to prolong life and performance. If you increase the input you must increase the output so they compliment each other, otherwise you are harming your engine life and performance.

^^
sounds like that was read right out of a beginners guide to performance

[Codeman]

ok, you should send me a link to some of the dyno results. i believe you i just want to see what the power curve looks like. and i do agree that it has too many variables.

[winnie51189]

A quick google search should provide ample enough material. I for one don't bother trying mods which have minimal gains that were dyno proven by others. Especially the ones that have been done multiple times, but I will try new mods without hesitation.

Oh and Kyle, it sounds like I'm doing a good job of retaining information lol, especially all the crap they hammer into us mechanical engineering students.

[Codeman]

i still do not understand how they are proven to do nothing. if so why do they run them on the super six mustang? Is it due to issues with fitment since they swapped the engine in? Im jc. because that is the part that is still making me a little hesitant.

[ESG-642T]

Originally Posted by winnie51189 A quick google search should provide ample enough material. I for one don't bother trying mods which have minimal gains that were dyno proven by others. Especially the ones that have been done multiple times, but I will try new mods without hesitation. Oh and Kyle, it sounds like I'm doing a good job of retaining information lol, especially all the crap they hammer into us mechanical engineering students.

Haha Yep,
I'm sure you've learned by now what they hammer into you and what you know that works are sometimes two different things

[ESG-642T]

Originally Posted by Codeman i still do not understand how they are proven to do nothing. if so why do they run them on the super six mustang? Is it due to issues with fitment since they swapped the engine in? Im jc. because that is the part that is still making me a little hesitant.

He would have had to make a set of custom long tubes, nobody makes long tubes for a 3.8 swapped fox body. If you want to go search 3.8 for those threads go ahead they are like 2-3 year old threads. Its where most people base the "don't buy shorties" argument from.