[mustangsweethrt00]

I'm considering some underdrive pulleys from RPM Outlet, the 42% Motoblue, as recommended by AtlanticBlue99. However, my boyfriend and I are hoping to do this together (he loves to work on the stang, and I'm excited to learn and do this all myself) but I'm wondering if this is too difficult of a mod for me to do myself. I've never worked on a car that much, although I did do my own CAI. If I found a good set of instructions on this (which if anyone has a link to, that would rock too) how hard would it be and would it be wise to try this? If not, i guess I could always have a shop do the work, but that's not as fun.

Am I in over my head here?

[mdvaldosta]

Its pretty simple. You'll need to remove the belt and the pulleys, thats it really. You'll need an impact gun for the alternator pulley and probably for for crank pulley. You'll also need a balancer puller unless its a piggyback crank pulley.

So long as you have both of those tools it'll take a first timer an hour or two. Its not a difficult job, and is most fun with a few beers

[turp]

I would never drink and work on my car! :wink Yeah real easy jobby job. Only takes about a half hour or so.

[AtlanticBlue99]

it is more simple than that. i did not need any impact gun or power tool, hand tools did the trick. first, grab the tensioner bolt and release belt tension and have the BF pull of the serpentine belt. now, if you just get the motoblue crank pulley and not the alt. pulley or a whole set, you only need a harmonic balancer puller from autozone for 20 bucks to rent (get $ back after you return tool) i know ford changed the balancer design in 2000, but im not sure exactly what month (you need to know when ordering the part) just begin threading the puller shaft onto the yoke and then screw the yoke into the harmonic balancer and then start turning the shaft until it is pulled out. now, install the motoblue unit (mine from rpmoutlet.com came with a new billit pulley on a new harmonic balancer so i only reused hardware). i had to lube and grease the hell out of the new balaancer and use a rubber mallet to get it on enough to begin threading (the only hard part). once you have it all threaded back on, put on the new, shorter belt- you can get a goodyear gatorback belt to fit for 15-20 extra bucks from rpmoutlet when you buy a pulley/pulley set. if you have anymore Qs, just ask them.

[turp]

:award :award

[mustangsweethrt00]

Originally Posted by AtlanticBlue99 it is more simple than that. i did not need any impact gun or power tool, hand tools did the trick. first, grab the tensioner bolt and release belt tension and have the BF pull of the serpentine belt. now, if you just get the motoblue crank pulley and not the alt. pulley or a whole set, you only need a harmonic balancer puller from autozone for 20 bucks to rent (get $ back after you return tool) i know ford changed the balancer design in 2000, but im not sure exactly what month (you need to know when ordering the part) just begin threading the puller shaft onto the yoke and then screw the yoke into the harmonic balancer and then start turning the shaft until it is pulled out. now, install the motoblue unit (mine from rpmoutlet.com came with a new billit pulley on a new harmonic balancer so i only reused hardware). i had to lube and grease the hell out of the new balaancer and use a rubber mallet to get it on enough to begin threading (the only hard part). once you have it all threaded back on, put on the new, shorter belt- you can get a goodyear gatorback belt to fit for 15-20 extra bucks from rpmoutlet when you buy a pulley/pulley set. if you have anymore Qs, just ask them.

Yeah, I would probably go with the motoblue pulley. Doesn't sound too hard, but I don't want to get into something I couldn't handle. I guess if I had any problems, I could always ask one of you guys.

It'll be a while before I do this, but we're planning mods that we wanna do to the stang when he gets outta the army

[1998Stang]

Can I ask a question in here please?

I put on a 25% UDP on my '98 V6, and it was very easy to do because of no dampener etc on the pulley (like the 99+)

But after ~900-1000 miles, I still can't feel any difference in performance or fuel economy.

I was under the impression that you can get ~5 hp and 1-2 mpg increase. I am very careful about recording everything that I do to my car and I keep excellent records. Although I may not be able to "feel" a 5hp gain, my mileage is exactly the same.

Question: Is there ANY chance . . . any chance at all . . . that not disconnecting the battery (and thus resetting the computer) may be the cause of this?

I read that you're supposed to disconnect the negative cable on the battery before doing any work under the hood. I can understand doing this when working with any sensors or electronics, but I figured it was just a pulley, and I didn't disconnect the battery.

What do you guys think?


All best and thanks,
Joe

[99mustang232]

here is a good writeup on 99-02 v6mustang underdrive pulley installation:

http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/pulley.htm

Originally Posted by 1998Stang I was under the impression that you can get ~5 hp and 1-2 mpg increase. I am very careful about recording everything that I do to my car and I keep excellent records. Although I may not be able to "feel" a 5hp gain, my mileage is exactly the same.

also keep in mind you are disconnecting the battery so if you activate one of your airbag sensors you aren't making a $400 mistake, it is a precaution. your setup is fine

basically the underdrive crank pulley is reducing the drag/load on the crankshaft by slowing down the accessories, the biggest drag in the v6 motors is the waterpump. by changing the crankshaft pulley you are not changing the speeds which the crankshaft turns so i'm skeptical of getting better fuel economy out of udp's.

[1998Stang]

Yes, thank you, I am familiar with Bill Wenger's site and his articles.

When we make any modification to our cars, we expect to see a difference, either in performance, in fuel economy, or in both. Otherwise, what are we doing here in the first place, right?

In my case, I spent $100 for a pulley and a 96" belt and installed these parts without disconnecting the battery first. After about 1000 miles I still cannot see any difference whatsoever in performance or in fuel economy. The new pulley weighs only 1/3 the weight of the stock pulley, and is of course, 25% smaller.

This should result in a gain in both performance and fuel economy due to less rotational mass and less parasitic drag on the engine. I spend most of my time on the highway, so there is a constant speed. Although the engine rpm's are the same, I should still be experienceing some sort of difference in fuel economy, due to less drag on the engine.

There is almost universal agreement that UDP's increase gas mileage, but some disagreement about exactly how many hp gains you get. No matter. I should get something, and I didn't get anything!

I'm just wondering if I didn't get ANY difference because I did NOT disconnect the battery first! I just can't see how that could be related, but it's the only thing I didn't do.

You are right about disconnection for safety's sake, though, and I should remember to do that when I work on my car.

Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? I mean, I could go out and disconnect the battery now to reset the computer. But why do that if it isn't related to the UDP?



All best and thanks again,
Joe

[AtlanticBlue99]

I have had only a negative experience with underdrive pullies. My Motoblue 42% crank pulley was billit aluminum, and it warped under engine heat. This resulted in a cracked harmonic balancer, which threw off my spark and messed up my coil pack. All of the differences I notice are at track time, and I do not have before/after results with a crank pulley.

[99mustang232]

i still think you are ok;

i would like to know how reducing the drag on the crank and slowing down your accessory pulley speeds increases fuel economy, because fuel and spark are still controlled by the pcm and timing? the pcm is not smart enough to auto detect a pulley swap. i have been wrong before? most experiances with pulleys are not that noticable if at all except on blowers.

[1998Stang]

Originally Posted by 99mustang232 i would like to know how reducing the drag on the crank and slowing down your accessory pulley speeds increases fuel economy, because fuel and spark are still controlled by the pcm and timing? the pcm is not smart enough to auto detect a pulley swap. i have been wrong before? most experiances with pulleys are not that noticable if at all except on blowers.

That is what I was thinking.

BTW, this is the first forum that I have been on where I did not hear of how wonderful these pulleys are! Almost everywhere I go, I read of how they will improve mileage. Even ASP says that.

Anyway, to answer your question, please let me recap all that I have read about the UDP and doing mods in general. If I use a smaller and lighter pulley which is turning all the accessories 25% less, there should be a noticable difference, whether good or bad. In general, any improvement to our cars which increases performance also has the potential to improve gas mileage. This is true whether we're talking about lighter wheels, improved intake/exhaust, etc. This won't be true of course, if we hit the gas pedal harder in order to enjoy the performance gain! :wink

But if we make a mod, and then drive conservatively, that should result in improved gas mileage.

In my case, I can't feel any difference between the "before" and "after" of installing the UPD crank pulley. I am very surprised at this, as I did notice some small gains in most of the mods listed in my signature. I was thinking that the UDP would complement my Aluminum driveshaft. When I need to replace my clutch, I plan on replacing the flywheel with an Aluminum one also.

Perhaps I am not driving "aggressively" enough to notice a performance gain?

Thank you and Chris for your replies!




All best and still learning,
Joe

[99mustang232]

one thing i learned quick was you can't always believe the mfg's sales pitch... it's kinda like how everyone gets hooked on modding in the first place, after that k&n filter it is all down hill from there.

still don't comprehend how increasing your hp increases the fuel economy or is directly related, with most mods it is the opposite because if that was the case most of the folks on the board would get better fuel economy than our civic hybrid.

i'm not saying you can't make real gaines from udp's but on a 200hp car it isn't as much of a gain as a 400hp car? i think most people think they feel more power because they expect to, kinda like the tornado fuel saver studies... do you have a custom tune on your car or still with the oem?

[artisan00]

my .02$ -

dunno why you did or didnt notice any difference, but just to comment after reading most of the posts -

the pcm hsouldnt have anything to do with the pully. the pcm controls how the engine runs, making the crankshaft spin round and round. what you do with that crankshafts energy is up to you. by changing out the pulley, you are simply diverting LESS of the energy from the crank to the accessories, and thus more to the driveshaft (where else is it going).

thats where the rwhp increase at a given rpm comes from. as for mileage, that comes from the same idea. with a given pulley, you are transfering X% of the energy from the engine crank to the transmission. with a different pulley, you are transfering more, like we said beofre.

so, consider that it takes Y amount of energy to move a car Z distance in a given amount of time, If you drive at relatively the same SPEED as before, you shuold see mpg go up. the reasoning there is that if the car moves a certain distance in a certain time, you have used that Y emount of energy, dictated by physics - no matter what is going on in the car's engine bay.

but, if you keep the RPM the same, you will be increasing the hp to wheels, but that will just accelrate you faster, which will NOT result in MPG going up. in this case, if you go through the same exact motions of getting from point A to point B (reffering to keeping the rpms the same as you progress) whatll happen is that you will get there slightly faster... which obvioulsy isnt going to use less energy...

i dnot feel well today so not sure if that was clear but the idea is pretty simple...

[1998Stang]

Originally Posted by artisan00 the pcm hsouldnt have anything to do with the pully. the pcm controls how the engine runs, making the crankshaft spin round and round. what you do with that crankshafts energy is up to you. by changing out the pulley, you are simply diverting LESS of the energy from the crank to the accessories, and thus more to the driveshaft (where else is it going). thats where the rwhp increase at a given rpm comes from. as for mileage, that comes from the same idea. with a given pulley, you are transfering X% of the energy from the engine crank to the transmission. with a different pulley, you are transfering more, like we said beofre. so, consider that it takes Y amount of energy to move a car Z distance in a given amount of time, If you drive at relatively the same SPEED as before, you shuold see mpg go up. the reasoning there is that if the car moves a certain distance in a certain time, you have used that Y emount of energy, dictated by physics - no matter what is going on in the car's engine bay. but, if you keep the RPM the same, you will be increasing the hp to wheels, but that will just accelrate you faster, which will NOT result in MPG going up. in this case, if you go through the same exact motions of getting from point A to point B (reffering to keeping the rpms the same as you progress) whatll happen is that you will get there slightly faster... which obvioulsy isnt going to use less energy... i dnot feel well today so not sure if that was clear but the idea is pretty simple...

Thank you, artisan. I agree 100% with what you have written and it is quite clear! Hope you're feeling better today.

I will be sure to watch the rpm's a little more closely, since I amy trying to plot the difference in mpg as a "gain". It is likely that I just don't have enough data yet.



And yes, 232, I am starting to (reluctantly) believe that I'm not going to get any more power out of a 150hp car. I figure that from ALL the mods I have, I'm lucky if I gained 10%, or 15hp.

And I am definitely planning to get one of those XCal2's next! I've been in touch with Justin and Brett down in Florida: http://www.VMPTuning.com


All best and thanks again,
Joe

[99mustang232]

+1 for Justin at vmptuning.com

you can still make plenty of power out of your car but just not that much from the N/A bolt-ons

your gonna have to either do a H/C/I swap, stroker, spray, or some f/i

[artisan00]

i have an xcal2 from justin - he was good to deal with. he also sells and tunes SC kits so if you have the money you may want to ask him about it.

[1998Stang]

OK folks!


After a 2200 mile trip back and forth to Florida, I am happy to report that I got between 32 and 34.5 miles per gallon with my 25% UDP!


This is an unbelievable mileage gain (over my usual 28-29 mpg) that I got, even with driving at 70mph with 3.27 gears.

This makes a lot more sense than NO mileage gain, and as I said earlier, I probably did not have enough data when I made my original post. And there were no charging or cooling problems either. I just wish that I had put on a 25% UDP when I first got my car!


All best,
Joe

[AtlanticBlue99]

Originally Posted by 1998Stang OK folks! After a 2200 mile trip back and forth to Florida, I am happy to report that I got between 32 and 34.5 miles per gallon with my 25% UDP! This is an unbelievable mileage gain (over my usual 28-29 mpg) that I got, even with driving at 70mph with 3.27 gears. This makes a lot more sense than NO mileage gain, and as I said earlier, I probably did not have enough data when I made my original post. And there were no charging or cooling problems either. I just wish that I had put on a 25% UDP when I first got my car! All best, Joe

sure beats the hell out of my car with 4.10s and a 15 minute highway drive to work, 15 minutes back too.

[afmustanglover]

this is all great info... I will go out and install my set right now...