[mustangmike!]

Soo,



Back in the end of november, I noticed one morning my heater was not working. It did not slowly warm up as the car warmed up, just kept blowing cold air. Finaly out of no where, it starts blowing hot air quickly.

I start looking into this. Thermo was good but changed anyways. Still had the problem. Went through the air bleeding process, didn't help (if I did it right ...).

I noticed that when the car was at full operating temp, been running for like 30 mins atleast, and the heater still wasn't working, that the heater hoses at the fire wall work still cool to the touch. Finally once the heat came on, I went back under the hood and the hoses were hot as they should be.

At this point I pulled those hoses off at the fire wall and ran water through the heater core, flowed just fine.


WTF WAS WRONG ! I couldn't figure it out, so I tried filling the coolant differently.

I filled it to the top at the radiator cap, put it back on, then topped it off at the bleeder screw. (this was done while engine was cool) Now keep in mind, the pipe the bleeder scew is on will by pass the thermostat, so thermo being closed shouldn't be much of a problem.

Anyways, I did this and the car had no issues, heated up as it should blah blah blah

so the wth was a little low on coolant and an air bubble in the system.

Well, those of you who know, I rebuilt this engine and finished up back in may. And just filled the coolant sytem via radiator cap, ran fine all summer. Used the heater alot during this fall. No problems, the heating problem just randomly occured....

Well I thought I had it fixed. Then about a week later the heating issue came back. So I refilled it like that again, and what ya know it worked ! About a week later here we are again ... WTF IS WRONG !

So Im not losing much water at all, When it happens, I pop the radiator cap and its like 2-3 inches down, not much at all in that little tube. Then I fill it up at the bleeder and it doesn't take much in there either, so what, we maybe talking 2-3 cups worth of water !?!?! That doesn't seem like enough air to cause problems wtf.


Alright, I give, lets take it to the local auto air shop.

He says pressure test showed no leaks. BUT when he test for air in the system we get a bad sign. IDK if anyone has seen this stuff work, but this is what they used/did Head Gasket or Combustion Leak Test Procedure (Gasoline Engines Only)

With that kit, your supposed to have to pull a vacum in the get air into it. If exhaust gases are present it will gradually go from a brightish blue, to blue green to yellow.

When I walked into the shop, he was finishing up doing that test a second time.

When he put it to the radiator, it immidiately started getting air bubbles w/o pulling vacum into it. So obviously getting alot of air pressure into the sytem ? It was slightly dark blueish green when I seen it for just a few seconds, he didn't leave it on long enough to turn yellow for me.

So this shows Im getting exhaust gases into the coolant. Infact another person said by feeling the upper radiator hose that it seemed like I had alot of pressure in the system.

Now another peice of info, if you pop the radiator cap, their is a small film of what seems to be oil on the top. Very little, but some. I haven't drained the oil to be 100% sure, but the dip stick doesn't show milky, and ive looked into the head through the oil cap while running and the oil in there doesn't look milky either.

The first time I tried bleeding the air, I messed up and things did heat up, not to the point of maxed out on the gauge, nor did it start steaming and doing stupid shit like that. This was after the inital heater problem, so I doubt this is the cause.

Exhaust smells rich as normal lol gotta love O/R exhuast builds. No other or different smells. Seems to be a lot of water coming out of the tail pipes, which is normal ish this time of year and they guy at the shop didn't seem to be worried about it at all.

Pulled the spark plugs, everything seemed normal their.

Now I will speak of a recent ocurrence that might be usefull to tell. Not long before this issue came about, my coil pack went back, and during the testing and switching of shit then. I accidently mixed up the 456 plug wires and had a bit of a missfire and cut it off immidiately.

Also, when testing the heater core I was testing to see if either of my heater hoses seemed to not flow well, so I unplugged the coil pack and spun the engine over a few times for each heater hose, plugged it back in and it started pretty hard, I guess I had to much fuel in their or something it didn't like happened. I cant remember if I shut it off imidiately or let it run since it smoothed out.

But anyways, I cant remember for sure, but im thinking it was the coil pack incident, but when I cut the engine off imidiately I heard what sounded like a liquid running into something for a second. Almost like pouring it into a cup when it starts to puddle up you hear that splashing and drizzle noise lol How ever you want to explain that idk.

4.2 block used off LKQ ebay. 4.2 heads were ported by a forum member and he says he had the tested for cracks and being warped and said they were fine.

I bought new Felpro head gaskets and sprayed them w/ copper spray and installed the heads right away while still sticky, followed the Chiltons way of installing heads and tqing bolts. Bolts bought new from Orielly auto chain.

At this point my options that I can think of are:

Bad/blown head gasket, warped head/block, cracked head/block.

Im setting up for round two of engine brake down. In my open car port in this cold ass weather ... it sucked bad enough last year ... gonna suck now too.

I ordered a new set of Ford head gaskets this morning and a fuel filter if that matters ...

Will get new head bolts soon.

Plan on once heads are removed to have them checked at a machine shop.



Any comments, advice, experience, pictures, help, anything besides a bunch of bs in my thread is appriciated. Sorry for being rude there, but im quite annoyed over the whole situation since I had so many problems the first go around and im having to do this shit again in the cold weather in not so great working area/conditions.

[mustangmike!]

on a side not, would head studs be a good idea ? If so, I understand these work ? Atleast for single port ? ARP 233-4003 - ARP Pro Series Cylinder Head Stud Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com

[ESG-642T]

Too much to read, drain the oil and find out what it looks like.

Those do work, for single ports.

[mustangmike!]

Originally Posted by ESG-642T Too much to read, drain the oil and find out what it looks like. Those do work, for single ports.

If it was going to be milky id see it in the heads.

But im goint to probably start the saturday when Im off work for 3 days.




What head studs work for the 04 ? Or 07 4.2 should I say

[mustangmike!]

All that reading will cover 99.9% of the up front questions that everyone is going to ask ...
or tell me to check ... etc etc

[6ixer]

mike i posted in other thread....i read this and thought to my self why does all that sound familar....oh yeah all that happened to me......
ITS A BAD HEAD GASKET LOL

just look on my fb theres a pic of my gasket lol

[mustangmike!]

cant at work :`(

Mike needs cool phone



But anyways, if this problem is occuring to others, wtf is going on ? What are we doing wrong ?

[SALEEN961]

I'm assuming you used Felpro MLS gaskets, why did you use copper spray on the head gaskets, what did the sealing surface of heads look like, was it a mirror finish?

[mustangmike!]

Originally Posted by SALEEN961 I'm assuming you used Felpro MLS gaskets, why did you use copper spray on the head gaskets, what did the sealing surface of heads look like, was it a mirror finish?

Yes I did.
Several people said I should ?
I cleaned the shit out of those heads and block, but I cannot recall if they were just perfect mirrors like that.

[6ixer]

hmm seems like when my shit whent it cause a domino effect...and whats causing them to fail...idk just old age mine to the best of my knowledge were stock sence day one and my car has 137k miles on it...it was bound to go

[SALEEN961]

Originally Posted by mustangmike! Yes I did. Several people said I should ? I cleaned the shit out of those heads and block, but I cannot recall if they were just perfect mirrors like that.

MLS gaskets are great but they require tighter tolerances then a standard graphite gaskets so even small scratches can cause a gasket to fail, and the marks left by a gasket scraper can cause problems. That being said Felpro advertises that their MLS gaskets can seal imperfections up to a 60 RA so as long as use didn't use an abrasive gasket remover to clean the surface this probably isn't your issue.

For reference Ford recommends a 8-15 RA on the 4.6L (I don't know the 3.8L spec so that's why I posted the 4.6L for reference)
400 Grit sandpaper gives a 10-15 RA
600 Grit sandpaper gives a 5-10 RA
A pane of glass has a 3-4 RA

Surface finish is very important in bimetal engines because the difference in thermal expansion rates between an aluminum head and cast iron block creates a tremendous amount of sideways shearing force and scrubbing action on the head gasket. If the surface finish is too rough, the metal will bite into the gasket and pull it sideways as the head expands and contracts. Over time this can cause a delaminating effect in the gasket, literally tearing it apart causing it to leak and fail. However, a rough surface isn't the only thing that can cause this, because the idea here is that the cylinder head, the gasket, and the engine block, all need to be able to slide back and forth freely as the parts expand at different rates. Using a gasket sealer or adhesive to glue these parts together will cause the same sheering force and scrubbing action that a rough surface finish will, and in time this scrubbing and sheering will cause the gasket to leak and fail.

[mustangmike!]

So maybe the copper spray isn't such a good idea ? idk ...

[SALEEN961]

Originally Posted by mustangmike! So maybe the copper spray isn't such a good idea ? idk ...

Yeah I wouldn't use it, most MLS gaskets have a non stick coating on them but I can't for the life of me remember what it's called and I don't feel like re-reading of of my machinist textbooks to find out, lol.

[mustangmike!]

I may not this go around then.




So what ARP head studs work for the 04 split port ?

[mustangmike!]

Oh,

Two things Im going to do before things com apart is going to be unbolting my exhaust from the LT's and seeing what comes out from there. Cant wait to hear that again LOL

then maybe a compression test.

[qwiksilvermustang]

Hey mike I'm beginning to wonder if you put the lower intake gaskets on backwards

[mustangmike!]

Originally Posted by qwiksilvermustang Hey mike I'm beginning to wonder if you put the lower intake gaskets on backwards

I have thought about that -_-

[stephen]

I just went through the same problem. I replaced the head gaskets and used ARP head studs. The following shows the details including the ARP part numbers. I would have the heads surfaced and use Victor gaskets. Victor uses a viton coating that is a fluorocarbon and slippery to allow the gasket to move. Felpro uses a sticky coating which failed in my case (completely came apart). Don't put anything on the head gaskets. The gasket surfaces have to be free of all old gasket material, have the correct surface finish, and be absolutely clean and dry. I cleaned mine with lacquer thinner.

Mustang repairs 2011

[mustangmike!]

PM'd

[teal89]

MustangMike... This is Tony. Im on here too :-) LOL. Been on this almost the beginning when this site opened