[stephen]

The engine on our 99 Mustang appears to have seized. We had had a problem with lifter noise, which had been fixed for a while, then came back a few days ago. The last few days when cranking the engine there was an abnormal amount of noise. Anyway the engine lost power and died and later wouldn't crank. Right before it died there was some other unusual noise, sort of like a bearing whine.

I will try to figure it out tonight. Haven't ruled anything out yet.

I'm speculating that we had some sort of oil feed problem to the lifter/cam area and maybe the cam seized up. Anyone know what the oiling path is?

[Juggalo_X]

pull your oil filter cut it open and check for shavings. ur did you notice any abnormally high or low oil pressure?

[Juggalo_X]

starter motor pinion could also be jammed in the drive plate. that could explain the odd noise.

if u think its seized try to turn the crank with a socket and a breaker bar.

[stephen]

Originally Posted by Juggalo_X starter motor pinion could also be jammed in the drive plate. that could explain the odd noise. if u think its seized try to turn the crank with a socket and a breaker bar.

I didn't notice an oil light.

I will try turning the engine with a socket and breaker bar tonight when I get home.

[Juggalo_X]

let us know man

[stephen]

Originally Posted by Juggalo_X let us know man

It won't budge with a socket and breaker bar.

I will start working on removing the engine tomorrow.

[itschristorres8]

you have a few different oil galleys machined through the block and oil path blocked will cause high oil pressure and that path to not get any oil
while the engine was on did you get any white/blue smoke?
smoke coming out of the valve cover?
exhaust

[stephen]

Originally Posted by itschristorres8 you have a few different oil galleys machined through the block and oil path blocked will cause high oil pressure and that path to not get any oil while the engine was on did you get any white/blue smoke? smoke coming out of the valve cover? exhaust

It was dark when the engine failed so I couldn't see any smoke that may have occured. There was no over heating or oil light.

Previously there hadn't been any smoke other than condensation in the exhaust (white) on cold mornings before the engine warmed up.

I suspect the noisy lifters had something to do with at least locally low oil pressure.

Right now the issue is getting the engine out. I plan to pull the transmission out first leaving the torque convertor bolted onto the flex plate. After the trans is out I should be able to remove the torque convertor and the engine should come straight up. I guess this might damage a seal or two in the trans, but that can be fixed.

[itschristorres8]

im pretty sure you gotta pull the tranny with the torque converter
sounds like you might have a plugged oil galley
let me see tomorrow what i can come up with

[stephen]

Originally Posted by itschristorres8 im pretty sure you gotta pull the tranny with the torque converter sounds like you might have a plugged oil galley let me see tomorrow what i can come up with

There is no mystery as to what happened to the engine. There was very little oil in it. How it got that way I don't know. I had checked the level just a few days ago and it was fine.

I have the trans disconnected from the engine but with the torque convertor still bolted up to the flex plate. I can't pull the trans far enough back to get the input shaft totally out of the torque convertor, so it's sitting there under the car on a trans jack. There is no way at this point to get the torque convertor nuts loose. Later I will finish unhooking everything to hoist the engine and if I pull the engine forward some it should clear the input shaft. With the engine out I think it will be easy to split the torque convertor nuts with a chisel and remove them. Having taken the trans loose this way I expect I have damaged some seals so will get that taken of later.

[itschristorres8]

did you drain the tranny?
if you dont and you pull th converter out expect a huge mess

and if its not mystery then how do you not know what happend lol?
and no is when you mention it was low on oil ......oh brother how low is low on oil?
clearly theres a leak somewhere, oil doesnt dissappear unless you have a blown piston ring and then you'd be burning white/blue smoke and your engine is already considered blown at that point

[Juggalo_X]

could have work valve stems as well. burn it that way

[stephen]

Originally Posted by itschristorres8 did you drain the tranny? if you dont and you pull th converter out expect a huge mess and if its not mystery then how do you not know what happend lol? and no is when you mention it was low on oil ......oh brother how low is low on oil? clearly theres a leak somewhere, oil doesnt dissappear unless you have a blown piston ring and then you'd be burning white/blue smoke and your engine is already considered blown at that point

Yes it created a major mess of trans fluid leaking from the torque convertor. Non-the-less the engine is out now. Having the trans pulled back I believe helped.

By low on oil I mean there was less than a quart left. Frankly I suspect some kind of sabotage. The oil filter had been loosened and the gasket pulled out of place to make it look like it leaked out there but there is no way I put it in that way and there should have been oil all down the underside of the car which there isn't.

Tomorrow I will disassemble the engine to the short block and see if I can get that apart. Once again with the engine seized it may not be easy to get the short block apart, but we will see how it goes.

[TurboLX]

you seized your egngine huh?




















thats why i stress take care of your motor.....

[itschristorres8]

ok if you had ANY GAP or the seal around your oil filter was gone and you didnt notice or you dont know where this happend i dont think you should be taking apart your motor

at the START of the car that seal missing, with space between the filter and the oil pump would cause you to have less then a quart of oil in about 20second or less and you'd spill the oil on the SPOT
and you'd hear the oil pissing out with 30-40psi of oil being pushed out of there.


if that was the case and you drove it like that!
yea you'll need more then just some oil to re-fill it.
depending how long you drove like that too which i dont think it' take very long
your engine will LITERALLY be siezed at EVERY spot that needs oil
rod bearings
main bearings
crank journals
thats where MOST the damage, the BAD damage will be

it'll take more then just a bearing kit to replace it
your crank journals will be screwed, rods, rod journals, every bearing, cam, lifters

depending how long you drove or had that car on with less then a quart of oil will depend on the damage

and if it was a while...your gonna have trouble those bearings will get so hot and with out any oil to lubricate and cool it down it'll weld themselves to the crank or journals, making the tear down a pain. hopefully that wont happen to you

[stephen]

Originally Posted by itschristorres8 ok if you had ANY GAP or the seal around your oil filter was gone and you didnt notice or you dont know where this happend i dont think you should be taking apart your motor at the START of the car that seal missing, with space between the filter and the oil pump would cause you to have less then a quart of oil in about 20second or less and you'd spill the oil on the SPOT and you'd hear the oil pissing out with 30-40psi of oil being pushed out of there. if that was the case and you drove it like that! yea you'll need more then just some oil to re-fill it. depending how long you drove like that too which i dont think it' take very long your engine will LITERALLY be siezed at EVERY spot that needs oil rod bearings main bearings crank journals thats where MOST the damage, the BAD damage will be it'll take more then just a bearing kit to replace it your crank journals will be screwed, rods, rod journals, every bearing, cam, lifters depending how long you drove or had that car on with less then a quart of oil will depend on the damage and if it was a while...your gonna have trouble those bearings will get so hot and with out any oil to lubricate and cool it down it'll weld themselves to the crank or journals, making the tear down a pain. hopefully that wont happen to you

The engine is totally torn down and the damage is one melted main bearing and a spun rod bearing. The crank doesn't actually show much damage and everything else looks OK. I was fortunate that it stopped in a crank orientation where I could reach the bolts on all but one rod cap and after I loosened all the main caps the crank would turn again.

As to the loose oil filter, it had been in place for about 2K miles with no leakage and there was nothing wrong with it. My belief is that someone deliberately tampered with it. I have a suspicion as to who it might have been, but it doesn't much matter at this point.

[Avaric3]

Originally Posted by stephen As to the loose oil filter, it had been in place for about 2K miles with no leakage and there was nothing wrong with it. My belief is that someone deliberately tampered with it. I have a suspicion as to who it might have been, but it doesn't much matter at this point.

someones gotta get beat badly

[itschristorres8]

Originally Posted by stephen The engine is totally torn down and the damage is one melted main bearing and a spun rod bearing. The crank doesn't actually show much damage and everything else looks OK. I was fortunate that it stopped in a crank orientation where I could reach the bolts on all but one rod cap and after I loosened all the main caps the crank would turn again. As to the loose oil filter, it had been in place for about 2K miles with no leakage and there was nothing wrong with it. My belief is that someone deliberately tampered with it. I have a suspicion as to who it might have been, but it doesn't much matter at this point.

doesnt matter?!
dude something that serious
the person probably has no idea what they did but your lucky
it coulda been MUCH worse. im surprised there was only one melted bearing.
if your using the crank i'd get it resurfaced anyway
and if theres a time to build the motor then now is the time. RPM sells rather cheap rotating asssembly's

[stephen]

Originally Posted by itschristorres8 doesnt matter?! dude something that serious the person probably has no idea what they did but your lucky it coulda been MUCH worse. im surprised there was only one melted bearing. if your using the crank i'd get it resurfaced anyway and if theres a time to build the motor then now is the time. RPM sells rather cheap rotating asssembly's

The melted main bearing was #3 which has the thrust surfaces. It actually dropped metal down into the pan, sort of like spilled solder. The bad rod bearing was #3 cylinder. The bearing shells are stuck to the crankshaft. I will see how the machine shop plans to fix that. It would seem if you heated them up they would come off. The crank has a little damage to one thrust surface but the journals are still smooth. At the very least I will get it ground one undersize and they will have to fix the thrust. It would probably also be wise to have them align bore or hone the main bearing saddles and resize the rod big ends. Other than that I plan to put in new rings and all new bearings (including the cam bearings. The front one is showing some copper.). The heads had been rebuilt a year or so ago and should be OK, though I may have them install new stem seals again. I would also like to get new lifters.

Maybe I should just get a new rotating assembly as you suggested.

[Juggalo_X]

get a stroker rotating assembly. probably same cost as buying new oem anyways. i wouldn't trust that crank anymore.