A Question On Exhaust

October 7th, 2006, 04:45 PM	#1
Xeremeh Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, TX Posts: 34	A Question On Exhaust I know this has been covered over many posts on many forums, but please understand that every case is different, and I'm not as good a google whore as I wish I might be. So, sorry beforehand, but here's another Exhaust Topic: AFter abit of researching, listening to exhaust clips and debates, the one that sounded the best to my situation was the Flowmaster 40-series w/ an offroad x-pipe setup. However, I didn't put too much thought into the situation. I wasn't too clear on what exactly the offroad part meant. No catalytic converters, which are an emissions-required item, of course. So, I went ahead and bought my Flowmaster 40-series muffs from e-bay, and they're sitting in my walllocker right now. Whilest waiting for next paycheck to pay the shop for installation, I got to reading up some more on it. Then called back MIDAS (who was going to do the install for me.) They had already quoted me $300 for fabrication of an OFFROAD x-pipe, installing the flowmasters, and making tips with labor included. Not bad, I suppose. So, I call up my exhaust guy down at MIDAS, and ask him about the offroad x-pipes he was going to build for me, and if they would be legal here (since every state has a different emissions portion of the test. I couldn't find anything on Bell County, Texas, unfortunately). Our conversation went something like this: "Calling about the estimate that you gave me earlier this week on fabrication of OFFROAD x-pipes, tips, and then install on those and a pair of flowmaster 40's." "Right, I have you here in our system." "Okay, I don't have another inspection due until September of 2007, but I was wondering if the x-pipes are street-legal here in Bell County, and if not, will I be able to rig a way to get converters in them for a few days before and into emissions test, then take them out for another year?" "Um, we can't do that. You have to have catalytics." ".. Then just how were you planning on making me offroad pipes?" "I don't understand what you mean... we fabricate them here at MIDAS." To my understanding, offroad pipes meant NO cats at all. Was I mistaken? (was already told that was what they meant afterwards, so I don't think so, but a second opinion is always good) So, is there another option into this? I want the Offroads, because they sound 100% better to my ear, rather than high-flow Catalytics or whatever. What can be done to make this right, I know that the state (and probably the county) make a difference in emissions testing as well... So please, any help at all would be appreciated. And please, I'm not that great with all of the slang and abbreviations, so please do me a favor and spell everything out. =) Sorry in advance, and thanks in advance! __________________ http://www.mustangforums.com/upfiles...h318155110.jpg 2000 Ford Mustang 3.8L V6 Next Mod: Exhaust

October 7th, 2006, 06:17 PM	#2
Sa-WaitNoMustang900Turbo Regular Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 462	Off road midpipes do not have cats making them not legal for the streets because of emissions, hence the name off road. it sould be very easy to fabricate a set up with removable cats for emissions, but im not sure wether it is legal for a shop to do that for you. also, there is more than one set of cats on your car, the first is right after the exaust manifold and the second is in the beginning of the midpipe, when you install an offroad midpipe you are only deleting the second set of cats. im not sure if your car will pass with one set or not where you live, some poeple with experience on that would have to post. another thing, i bet you could get an aftermarket offroad midpipe with mandrel bends (pipe same diameter in bends as in strait, many exhaust shops wont do this) and he stuff to connect it all together for under $300 and intalling it yourself is easy. __________________ http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...borbmw_156.jpg God... That Euro import guy is really starting to get on my nerves... my car can only beat his in a strait line(maybe)

October 8th, 2006, 01:06 AM	#3
AtlanticBlue99 The Nice Guy 1999 Ford Mustang V6 14.79 @ 92.15 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UGA Posts: 8,251	no cats is offroad. and you can pass emissions with high flow catted midpipe, but midas or meineke cannot make quality parts. rarely do they use mandrel bends or stainless steel. usually it is crush-bent aluminum and flows poorly and will eventually rust. you should buy a high flow H pipe from mac if you want a chambered muffler like magnaflow for a lower, better quality sound. if you wanted an x pipe, it sounds best with a straight through muffler like magnaflow. you will notice no power difference between x or H because of the even firing order, but if you have emissions testing, you must have catalytic converters to pass. it is illegal in the US for a shop to remove a catalytic converter if it is not malfunctioning or if it is not replaced with another converter. however, paying cash can get you around this. if you want a good sound and good quality, try a mac catted H pipe and a mac GT mustang cat back for the same year. it is stainless steel, mandrel bent, 2.5" and high quality with a similar sound to flowmaster. not nearly as expensive of a true ss mandrel flowmaster system __________________ ModdedAutos 1999 Mustang V6 I used to list my mods here but stopped when I exceeded 255 characters.

October 8th, 2006, 05:37 AM	#4
Xeremeh Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, TX Posts: 34	Well, I've already got my two flowmaster 2.5" mufflers sitting here in my room, because I got them from a buddy who works at a parts shop for his employee discount, and abit more off the side because my buddy does business with them quite abit, and has an account. The original plan was to hook them up to an O/R X. Now, that'll have to be changed, obviously. This was the original sound that I was going for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quE26tdQ2G0 (Quoted as having A V6 (yes, the badges are faked) with Flow 40's, O/R X-pipe with 2.5" mandrels) So, bearing in mind that I already have the Flow's sitting here, what can I do that'll still make them sound as close as possible to that, and still be under $500 or so (parts & labor). Thanks in advance for any responses. __________________ http://www.mustangforums.com/upfiles...h318155110.jpg 2000 Ford Mustang 3.8L V6 Next Mod: Exhaust

October 8th, 2006, 11:13 AM	#5
AtlanticBlue99 The Nice Guy 1999 Ford Mustang V6 14.79 @ 92.15 Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UGA Posts: 8,251	That is a v6 for sure. He has the 7.5" rear. That is a nice clean setup, but he wasnt revving above 2500. When you rev an offroad setup above 2500rpms, it will sound really bad on the Essex V6. If you want to get a similar sound from a catted setup, buy a "High Flow" catted X pipe for the 99-04 V6 Mustang, then have your buddy cut the rear flanges off and weld up your Flowmasters. It will be tough if not impossible to do this under 500 since catalytic converters are pricey, and a catted X pipe will be about 300 by itself. That only leaves you with 200 to have your buddy fabricate the rest. off road setups are cheaper, but since you have emissions, that is not an option. A high flow setup will be much louder than stock and make much more power than stock cats in any configuration (even just keeping the first set of cats for emissions), but you will not be as loud as an offroad setup- ever. Here is the only comparison i could find quickly regarding the difference in volume and tone- sorry it isn't Flowmaster: My offroad Magnaflow setup A catted Magnaflow setup __________________ ModdedAutos 1999 Mustang V6 I used to list my mods here but stopped when I exceeded 255 characters.

October 8th, 2006, 02:04 PM	#6
Xeremeh Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, TX Posts: 34	Ugh. They just sound kinda.. ricey with the cats still on, I guess. __________________ http://www.mustangforums.com/upfiles...h318155110.jpg 2000 Ford Mustang 3.8L V6 Next Mod: Exhaust

October 8th, 2006, 02:40 PM	#7
Xeremeh Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, TX Posts: 34	So, basically, I just need to find some decent cat-back setup. Any suggestions? How much will pipes make a difference? EDIT: Was browsing around and found this: http://www.dropshots.com/day.php?use...5&ctime=100311 All I heard was force flow mufflers (I enjoy the flowmaster sound better anyhow), and GT takeoffs. Do those keep the cats? Or how would that work? __________________ http://www.mustangforums.com/upfiles...h318155110.jpg 2000 Ford Mustang 3.8L V6 Next Mod: Exhaust

October 8th, 2006, 05:27 PM	#8
Xeremeh Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, TX Posts: 34	First off, I'd like to thank everyone. I know my quest for the right exhaust setup has been annoying to most of you. Sorry for that, but, hey, somethings you just gotta be picky about, I think. =) Nonetheless, I've learned alot more about the game, and found out what a ****load of acronyms and slang terms mean, so, I suppose that's a good thing. Okay, I'm sitting here with my Flow 40-series 2.5"s. I'm just going to do it the right way for now, and look at an x- or h-pipe, and toss some purdy 3" tips on. Here's the few questions that I have left: A) High-Flow cats. Should make the setup sound abit better and increase performance. I hear there are 4 cats in the 'stang. If i'm going to do the above setup, will I need to buy four high-flow cats, or will they come included with pipes, are they even worth it, or what? B) X-pipe vs H-pipe. This may be a simple opinion question, but was looking for input none-the-less. Difference in performance and sound? C) Mandrel bends. Will they cost more? If so, how much? I'm pretty sure they're worth it... D) Tips. Nice, stainless steel 3"s or so. Can they be easily put on later? Money is getting kind of tight on this project as it is. E) Since this is all legal now, would it be better to go to somewhere like MIDAS where they offer warranties (since this will prolly void my dealership exhaust warranty), or a mom-and-pop and try to take out the warranties on the mufflers and cats (if purchased)? Thank you so much in advance! __________________ http://www.mustangforums.com/upfiles...h318155110.jpg 2000 Ford Mustang 3.8L V6 Next Mod: Exhaust

October 8th, 2006, 08:01 PM	#9
itschristorres8 SP00LIN V6 2000 Mustang V6 unknown @390 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: south florida Posts: 14,619	this might help...i didnt read any previous post due to them all being large...idk if you chose one yet but here is an earlier post i made a little while back with MANY types of exhaust to choose from: http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...re-vt5879.html __________________ 437rwhp and 402rwtq through a V6 on a stock bottom end

October 8th, 2006, 09:26 PM

#10

AtlanticBlue99

The Nice Guy

1999 Ford Mustang V6

14.79 @ 92.15

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: UGA

Posts: 8,251

Originally Posted by Xeremeh

First off, I'd like to thank everyone. I know my quest for the right exhaust setup has been annoying to most of you. Sorry for that, but, hey, somethings you just gotta be picky about, I think. =) Nonetheless, I've learned alot more about the game, and found out what a ****load of acronyms and slang terms mean, so, I suppose that's a good thing.

Okay, I'm sitting here with my Flow 40-series 2.5"s. I'm just going to do it the right way for now, and look at an x- or h-pipe, and toss some purdy 3" tips on. Here's the few questions that I have left:

A) High-Flow cats. Should make the setup sound abit better and increase performance. I hear there are 4 cats in the 'stang. If i'm going to do the above setup, will I need to buy four high-flow cats, or will they come included with pipes, are they even worth it, or what?

B) X-pipe vs H-pipe. This may be a simple opinion question, but was looking for input none-the-less. Difference in performance and sound?

C) Mandrel bends. Will they cost more? If so, how much? I'm pretty sure they're worth it...

D) Tips. Nice, stainless steel 3"s or so. Can they be easily put on later? Money is getting kind of tight on this project as it is.

E) Since this is all legal now, would it be better to go to somewhere like MIDAS where they offer warranties (since this will prolly void my dealership exhaust warranty), or a mom-and-pop and try to take out the warranties on the mufflers and cats (if purchased)?

Thank you so much in advance!

A) The high flow cats come welded into the mid pipe (X or H) and there is only one pair- one cat per bank. High flow midpipes cost more than offroad because they do include cats.

B) X is more raspy and sounds better with a straight through muffler or glasspack style muffler- i.e. Magnaflow, SLP, etc.

H is a lower tone and sounds best with a chambered muffler- i.e. Flowmaster 40-series.

C) Yes they cost more because the mandrel bender (machine to make the bends) costs substantially greater than a crush bender (the cheap stuff most muffler shops like Meineke and Midas use.

D) Tips can be purchased later, but if you do things the right way and buy a cat back, they come with 2.5" stainless steel, mandrel bent, and tips. But they are not usually included in the cheaper, poorer quality muffler shop kits.

E) Do it yourself. You can pull or cut out the stock exhaust and an X or H pipe will bolt right up to the headers with 2 bolts on each side, then a cat back will bolt right to the midpipe with 2 bolts per side, plus tips are usually a turn-screw attachment.

Muffler shops weld the kits which makes future maintenance/alterations impossible without replacing or rewelding a section of the setup.

You will get what you pay for, and I hope you will buy a bolt on kit that is legal and not go to a muffler shop with shitty parts and shitty quality most of the time. Bolt on kits fit better, look better, are warrantied by the manufacturer for 10yrs-limited lifetime, and will outperform the inconsistency of muffler shops.

__________________
ModdedAutos
1999 Mustang V6
I used to list my mods here but stopped when I exceeded 255 characters.

http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic8_7.gif

October 8th, 2006, 09:56 PM	#11
Xeremeh Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, TX Posts: 34	Well, if I buy a bolt-on kit (which includes the pipes and high-flow cats only (and hookup parts, im assuming)), how hard is it to hook them up to my mufflers and run them out the back by myself? There's a do-it-to-yourself garage here that you pay like $5 per hour for that'll loan you the tools and jacks and shit, so that's no biggie, but I'm no mechanical wiz yet.. I'm also assuming that i'll need to buy.. just the tips? Anything else? EDIT: Can you post some decent sites with good prices for those kind of kits as well, please? Thanks in advance! __________________ http://www.mustangforums.com/upfiles...h318155110.jpg 2000 Ford Mustang 3.8L V6 Next Mod: Exhaust

October 8th, 2006, 10:10 PM	#12
itschristorres8 SP00LIN V6 2000 Mustang V6 unknown @390 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: south florida Posts: 14,619	http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...st-vt3770.html any site you'll ever need on a v6 __________________ 437rwhp and 402rwtq through a V6 on a stock bottom end

October 8th, 2006, 10:28 PM	#13
Xeremeh Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, TX Posts: 34	Wow. Looks like most X/H pipes w/ high-flow cats are about 300+, no matter how oyu look at it. __________________ http://www.mustangforums.com/upfiles...h318155110.jpg 2000 Ford Mustang 3.8L V6 Next Mod: Exhaust

October 8th, 2006, 10:36 PM

#14

AtlanticBlue99

The Nice Guy

1999 Ford Mustang V6

14.79 @ 92.15

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: UGA

Posts: 8,251

Originally Posted by Xeremeh

Well, if I buy a bolt-on kit (which includes the pipes and high-flow cats only (and hookup parts, im assuming)), how hard is it to hook them up to my mufflers and run them out the back by myself? There's a do-it-to-yourself garage here that you pay like $5 per hour for that'll loan you the tools and jacks and shit, so that's no biggie, but I'm no mechanical wiz yet.. I'm also assuming that i'll need to buy.. just the tips? Anything else?

EDIT: Can you post some decent sites with good prices for those kind of kits as well, please? Thanks in advance!

They bolt on with basic hand tools. Maybe put the car on jack stands for comfort. You wont need to buy anything at all except the High flow X or H pipe and the cat back of choice. This will not utilize your mufflers, but you have to pay to play with quality.

__________________
ModdedAutos
1999 Mustang V6
I used to list my mods here but stopped when I exceeded 255 characters.

October 8th, 2006, 10:37 PM

#15

AtlanticBlue99

The Nice Guy

1999 Ford Mustang V6

14.79 @ 92.15

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: UGA

Posts: 8,251

Originally Posted by Xeremeh

Wow. Looks like most X/H pipes w/ high-flow cats are about 300+, no matter how oyu look at it.

Catalytic converters are expensive, yes.

__________________
ModdedAutos
1999 Mustang V6
I used to list my mods here but stopped when I exceeded 255 characters.

October 8th, 2006, 10:41 PM	#16
Xeremeh Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, TX Posts: 34	Okay. This is one of the bestest I can find w/ the cats in: http://www.rpmoutlet.com/musv6ngauge.htm The X-pipe at the top. Says it comes with hardware and holes should line up. Does this look like a good buy? All I should need now are tips, right? __________________ http://www.mustangforums.com/upfiles...h318155110.jpg 2000 Ford Mustang 3.8L V6 Next Mod: Exhaust

October 9th, 2006, 08:13 AM

#17

AtlanticBlue99

The Nice Guy

1999 Ford Mustang V6

14.79 @ 92.15

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: UGA

Posts: 8,251

Originally Posted by Xeremeh

Okay. This is one of the bestest I can find w/ the cats in: http://www.rpmoutlet.com/musv6ngauge.htm

The X-pipe at the top. Says it comes with hardware and holes should line up. Does this look like a good buy? All I should need now are tips, right?

That is a decent buy, buy you can always negotiate a "Forum Discount" of about 5-10%.

That will NOT mate up to your current muffler shop setup (I believe you said you had flowmaster 40series duals from a muff shop). You will need to cut the rear flanges from that brand new X pipe and refabricate your current dual setup to mate the X pipe.

Now, if you don't have the cat back or tips, just mufflers for now, you can buy a catback that bolts to this or you will have to pay someone to weld. If you are getting a fabricated cat back, there is no need for this nice midpipe since you will lose flow in the crush bends and lose quality in the muffler shop. Also, you will void any and all warranty on that product by cutting, welding, or any way altering the material.

If you buy a catback (300 dollars-400dollars) It comes with 2.5" ss, mandrel bent, warrantied pipes, mufflers, tips, and all assembly brackets/hardware. You are better off buying a cat back if you want a warranty.

__________________
ModdedAutos
1999 Mustang V6
I used to list my mods here but stopped when I exceeded 255 characters.

October 9th, 2006, 12:53 PM	#18
Xeremeh Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, TX Posts: 34	So, in essence, the best thing to do is to buy the x-pipe, then buy the catback, and bolt it all on myself since it doesn't need to be cut or anything, and just send the flowmasters back? By the way, I like this MAC catback clip: http://videos.streetfire.net/search/...eebc2043c7.htm Anyone know the full specs? What mufflers series and x/h? __________________ http://www.mustangforums.com/upfiles...h318155110.jpg 2000 Ford Mustang 3.8L V6 Next Mod: Exhaust

October 9th, 2006, 01:23 PM	#19
itschristorres8 SP00LIN V6 2000 Mustang V6 unknown @390 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: south florida Posts: 14,619	if your getting the full mac set up and want the flowmasters, you can just buy the flowmaster 40s muffler (2.5) or w/e size the pipes are and fit it in fine. might cost more in the end but you'll have the sound you want. just so you know no matter what you do, your v6, my v6 anyones mustang v6 will never have the tone and sound of a v8. its not possible. you might think itsounds better them some GT's but a flowmaster v6 compared to a GT with flowmasters..the GT will sound better every v6 sound ricey after about 3000rpms thats why i dont like to really rev past that when im showing my friends it __________________ 437rwhp and 402rwtq through a V6 on a stock bottom end

October 9th, 2006, 03:07 PM	#20
Xeremeh Newbie Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Fort Hood, TX Posts: 34