Fuel injectors and MAF upgrade?

97TunedMustang · December 2nd, 2006, 02:19 PM

Im not sure if i have the gist of this down or not but im pretty sure through some posts in the past ive seen people talking about upgrading Injectors and MAF so they can get more fuel to do supercharger or turbo setups and be able to do this without having any extra fuel management. Is this the case or am i misreading? If it is in fact what i think it is im looking to run about 12lbs max boost through the vortech i have but as of now im starting to hit fuel cut with the 8lb pulley and if i could id like to upgrade Injectors and MAF thing is i've only heard about this here and there and i'm not sure where to start. any suggestions?

ssajdowitz · December 2nd, 2006, 03:49 PM

I'm running 10psi with an m-90. Here's what I did:

90mm MAF from a lightning f-150
39# injectors from an 03-04 cobra
255lph in tank fuel pump

Since it is a 98, I still use the return-style fuel system. Also, you'll need a tune (you probably already know that).

Other than that, the fuel system is stock and safe. I'm actually running really fat right now (about 11 AFR at WOT).

97TunedMustang · December 2nd, 2006, 04:00 PM

i was pokin around and found a little info. not sure how correct it is but here goes.

14lb - good to around 180 rwhp
19lb - good to around 260-280 rwhp
24lb - good to around 375 rwhp
30lb - good to about 450 rwhp
36lb - good to 500 rwhp
42lb - good to about 550 rwhp

So according to this im thinking 24 would work and 30lb might even be overkill with my setup on 11-12lbs of boost. Assuming these figures are correct. Now you said you had 39lb injectors so theoretically you should be good up to like 525whp then right so isnt that overkill?

So from what ive gathered i should get something like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pro-M...pagenameZWD10V

what do yall think? Do i need a different harness to mate up to this or will it work with the one i have now? any help would be greatly appreciated.

97TunedMustang · December 2nd, 2006, 04:23 PM

you mentioned a tune but to tune for what. if you get larger injectors and maf to match doesnt the computer figure the rest out? what has to be tuned exactly?

ssajdowitz · December 2nd, 2006, 05:37 PM

I use an SCT x-cal to tune the ECU. When I installed all of the stuff I mentioned, I started the car without a tune. It billowed black smoke and would foul the plugs every time I would try to idle. That's because adaptive learning will only adjust so far. It still thought I was running 19# injectors.

Injectors can always flow less than their maximum, never more. That is why you need bigger injectors. Right now, my injectors are bigger than they need to be, but that leaves room for future mods. Besides, I only paid $180 for 8 new injectors (either ebay or a guy on 3.8mustang.com forum, I forget).

The t-bird supercoupe runs 30lb injectors for the earlier years and 36lb injectors for the later years. They put out around 225hp, 315ft-lb torque. But, bigger is safer.

ssajdowitz · December 2nd, 2006, 05:42 PM

As for the MAF. You do need to get a maf calibrated for the injectors unless you get an 80mm or 90mm maf from a lightning.

If you tune with the SCT X-cal, you will not need to calibrate the maf to the injectors. So, the lightning maf is much easier to tune.

The only reason you need a new maf is to avoid it becomming pegged. Your stock maf will only read to a certain mass flow rate. By supercharging it, you will far exceed it's capability.

I only paid $100 for my 90mm lightning maf on ebay. It was brand new, and that seems to be the average selling price for them. It is not hard to find.

I have a lot of points going through my head, so I hope they came out in a clear, logical manner. Let me know if you have any questions.
Scott

ssajdowitz · December 2nd, 2006, 05:49 PM

Oh yeah.

The lightning maf will use the same electrical connecter as your stock maf. At least I think so. It was either the mustang connecter or the supercoupe connecter, I don't remember. But, I didn't need to buy a special one.

The 39lb cobra injectors used a new style connecter that I had to order from the dealer to make them fit. I also had to raise the fuel rail about 1/8". It wasn't a big deal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Light...QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90mm-...sor-Meter-MAF_http://W0QQitemZ140027439839QQihZ004...QQcmdZViewItem

97TunedMustang · December 3rd, 2006, 10:54 PM

Ok i think i get it for the most part. Youve guys have been a big help clarifying a few things. now as far as the XCAL Sct tuner. where can i find the best price for one?

97TunedMustang · December 4th, 2006, 04:26 AM

Ok so ive just been lookin around on ebay and ive seen the SCT Xcalibrator for the 05-06, another listing for 99+ ford mustangs and another for 96+ ford mustangs. They all seem to be the same SCT XCAL 2 unit so are they all the same or are any of them different somehow?

I was lookin at this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NIB-F...spagenameZWDVW

So with this it seems to me im able to tell the computer i have larger injectors and maf, once i get them that is, and with these three things together i will be able to make it stop fuel cutting..yes? lol

By chance is their any other tuner out their like the xcal that could do the same thing i might start lookin for... thanks a lot guys

97TunedMustang · December 7th, 2006, 04:45 AM

If someone could see this and let me know real quick thatd be amazing. Im looking at bidding on this auction here but i want to make sure that if i get this all i will need is an sct xcal 2 to make it all work. is that correct? I know you go in the device to change maf and injector parameters but does anything else have to be changed or technically "tuned" like fuel mapping or ignition timing by a shop to make this setup work?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3288353&rd=1,1

Also it doesnt say in the auction the maf is neccesarily the stock 90mm maf but it is one from a lightning that has been calibrated for the injectors so i should be ok then right? I really would like to get this if its something thats going to work for a good price but i dont want to get it if its not going to do what i'm after.

thanks a lot guys

Onemanzu · December 7th, 2006, 12:15 PM

... you have to remember that you have an EFI engine...so if you change something about the fuel injection you will need a tune...

Also if you can't find a cheap x cal might as well go all out and get the new lightning tuner... its one of the new in car ones from sct... they have it for the mustang so its worth a glance...

Cricket · December 7th, 2006, 12:24 PM

Go for the Livewire. It's like the SCT Xcal2 and a Gtech put together. Looks like it would be awesome for dyno tuning.

ssajdowitz · December 7th, 2006, 06:26 PM

I took a look at that auction for the maf and injectors. The injectors will fit in your car without getting new electrical connecters like I had to do.

As for the maf, I'm not sure. Since it is calibrated for the injectors, it should be fine.

But, I'm not sure how much an x-cal is going to like tuning it. It will probably work fine, but don't quote me on that.

The x-cal should be the same, it's the tune that differs between years. If you find a used x-cal that already has a tune on it, don't use the tune. They are written specifically for your car. I don't know how much each tune file costs from the sct dealer, but they usually just e-mail them to you.

And, once a car has been tuned with an x-cal it becomes locked. It cannot be used on another car unless the stock tune is returned to the first car.

ssajdowitz · December 7th, 2006, 06:29 PM

You will also need a bigger fuel pump. I run a 255lph walbro in the tank.

97TunedMustang · December 7th, 2006, 09:00 PM

ok thanks a lot guys for the replies. I messaged the guy with the tuner and he said it had been cleared out by the dealer so it has no existing tunes on it and all 3 tunes on the unit are available to be used on any vehicle as if it were new.

Now i know i need the sct tuner to tune it, but other then being used to change the ecu parameters for the injectors and the MAF size, when you say "tuned" do you mean i actually need an sct dealer to make me a tune for the car? am i able to change these parameters myself or are you saying i need to have a tune sent to me with the different settings already in place?

Another question can normal tuning shops do anything with these devices or is it limited to mail order tunes?

Also i already have a 255lph fuel pump so i'm good there.

97TunedMustang · December 8th, 2006, 02:44 AM

Really if someone could give me some insight before like tomorrow at 5 thatd be spectacular cause i gotta decide by then whether or not to try and bid on this maf and injector package.

I need maf, injectors, xcal 2. is what ive gathered thus far. Now what i dont know is if i can make this setup work and be able to change the parameters myself in order to make it work. If not do i need a tune from an SCT dealer and if that is the case, how do i go about doing that?

Theoretically if i had the maf and injectors and the xcal 2 what would i need to do to make it all work besides changing the maf and injector settings? Help is greatly appreciated!

twinturbo · December 8th, 2006, 01:11 PM

The xcal2 is juts a loading device, It holds the tunes made for your car, and are loaded into your car. You will always find the best deal by purchasing the xcal2 from your tuner. At any rate, your car requires a custom tune, and the tuner who does this is the most important aspect of the whole deal. That person is responsible for making or breaking the car, and assuming they are as knowledgabe as they should be, should be able to advise you as to the best course of action.

itschristorres8 · December 8th, 2006, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Cricket

Go for the Livewire. It's like the SCT Xcal2 and a Gtech put together. Looks like it would be awesome for dyno tuning.

true, im really debating on which to get for my car. but the livewire is alot...isnt it like double

anyway i didnt read this whole thread, but 97tunedmustang, why not just get 42lb fuel injectors this way if you change your mind and add more power you dont have to worry about paying for new ones and shit
whenever i get my turbo im just getting 42lb injectors even though i'll be at 350hp around..cuz eventually my goal will be about 50hp or less below the 42lb limit

97TunedMustang · December 8th, 2006, 03:44 PM

I was actually looking at getting 48lb injectors in the auction i posted earlier so that'd be bigger..then 42lb'ers. lol i still dont know what route im goin cause the guy at lasotaracing told me they would be a problem..not sure why though. waitin on a reply. im thinkin i might get a xcal from them since they seem to know what theyre doin and then i guess you get 3 tunes from them and they will keep working on ur setup by datalogging your car till its just right. so sounds like it might be the route to go.

December 2nd, 2006, 02:19 PM	#1
97TunedMustang Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 963	Fuel injectors and MAF upgrade? Im not sure if i have the gist of this down or not but im pretty sure through some posts in the past ive seen people talking about upgrading Injectors and MAF so they can get more fuel to do supercharger or turbo setups and be able to do this without having any extra fuel management. Is this the case or am i misreading? If it is in fact what i think it is im looking to run about 12lbs max boost through the vortech i have but as of now im starting to hit fuel cut with the 8lb pulley and if i could id like to upgrade Injectors and MAF thing is i've only heard about this here and there and i'm not sure where to start. any suggestions? __________________ New block with forged internals running 16psi, tuned by Lasota Racing Too many mods to list... 3.73's and Truetrac Finally Done! Water-methanol injection? Dyno Tune fo sho, Street tune FTL!

December 2nd, 2006, 03:49 PM	#2
ssajdowitz Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Bend, Wisconsin Posts: 141	I'm running 10psi with an m-90. Here's what I did: 90mm MAF from a lightning f-150 39# injectors from an 03-04 cobra 255lph in tank fuel pump Since it is a 98, I still use the return-style fuel system. Also, you'll need a tune (you probably already know that). Other than that, the fuel system is stock and safe. I'm actually running really fat right now (about 11 AFR at WOT). __________________ To the Optimist, the glass is half full. To the Pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

December 2nd, 2006, 04:00 PM	#3
97TunedMustang Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 963	i was pokin around and found a little info. not sure how correct it is but here goes. 14lb - good to around 180 rwhp 19lb - good to around 260-280 rwhp 24lb - good to around 375 rwhp 30lb - good to about 450 rwhp 36lb - good to 500 rwhp 42lb - good to about 550 rwhp So according to this im thinking 24 would work and 30lb might even be overkill with my setup on 11-12lbs of boost. Assuming these figures are correct. Now you said you had 39lb injectors so theoretically you should be good up to like 525whp then right so isnt that overkill? So from what ive gathered i should get something like this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pro-M...pagenameZWD10V what do yall think? Do i need a different harness to mate up to this or will it work with the one i have now? any help would be greatly appreciated. __________________ New block with forged internals running 16psi, tuned by Lasota Racing Too many mods to list... 3.73's and Truetrac Finally Done! Water-methanol injection? Dyno Tune fo sho, Street tune FTL!

December 2nd, 2006, 04:23 PM	#4
97TunedMustang Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 963	you mentioned a tune but to tune for what. if you get larger injectors and maf to match doesnt the computer figure the rest out? what has to be tuned exactly? __________________ New block with forged internals running 16psi, tuned by Lasota Racing Too many mods to list... 3.73's and Truetrac Finally Done! Water-methanol injection? Dyno Tune fo sho, Street tune FTL!

December 2nd, 2006, 05:37 PM	#5
ssajdowitz Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Bend, Wisconsin Posts: 141	I use an SCT x-cal to tune the ECU. When I installed all of the stuff I mentioned, I started the car without a tune. It billowed black smoke and would foul the plugs every time I would try to idle. That's because adaptive learning will only adjust so far. It still thought I was running 19# injectors. Injectors can always flow less than their maximum, never more. That is why you need bigger injectors. Right now, my injectors are bigger than they need to be, but that leaves room for future mods. Besides, I only paid $180 for 8 new injectors (either ebay or a guy on 3.8mustang.com forum, I forget). The t-bird supercoupe runs 30lb injectors for the earlier years and 36lb injectors for the later years. They put out around 225hp, 315ft-lb torque. But, bigger is safer. __________________ To the Optimist, the glass is half full. To the Pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

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December 2nd, 2006, 05:42 PM	#6
ssajdowitz Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Bend, Wisconsin Posts: 141	As for the MAF. You do need to get a maf calibrated for the injectors unless you get an 80mm or 90mm maf from a lightning. If you tune with the SCT X-cal, you will not need to calibrate the maf to the injectors. So, the lightning maf is much easier to tune. The only reason you need a new maf is to avoid it becomming pegged. Your stock maf will only read to a certain mass flow rate. By supercharging it, you will far exceed it's capability. I only paid $100 for my 90mm lightning maf on ebay. It was brand new, and that seems to be the average selling price for them. It is not hard to find. I have a lot of points going through my head, so I hope they came out in a clear, logical manner. Let me know if you have any questions. Scott __________________ To the Optimist, the glass is half full. To the Pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

December 2nd, 2006, 05:49 PM	#7
ssajdowitz Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Bend, Wisconsin Posts: 141	Oh yeah. The lightning maf will use the same electrical connecter as your stock maf. At least I think so. It was either the mustang connecter or the supercoupe connecter, I don't remember. But, I didn't need to buy a special one. The 39lb cobra injectors used a new style connecter that I had to order from the dealer to make them fit. I also had to raise the fuel rail about 1/8". It wasn't a big deal. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Light...QQcmdZViewItem http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/90mm-...sor-Meter-MAF_http://W0QQitemZ140027439839QQihZ004...QQcmdZViewItem __________________ To the Optimist, the glass is half full. To the Pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

December 3rd, 2006, 10:54 PM	#8
97TunedMustang Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 963	Ok i think i get it for the most part. Youve guys have been a big help clarifying a few things. now as far as the XCAL Sct tuner. where can i find the best price for one? __________________ New block with forged internals running 16psi, tuned by Lasota Racing Too many mods to list... 3.73's and Truetrac Finally Done! Water-methanol injection? Dyno Tune fo sho, Street tune FTL!

December 4th, 2006, 04:26 AM	#9
97TunedMustang Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 963	Ok so ive just been lookin around on ebay and ive seen the SCT Xcalibrator for the 05-06, another listing for 99+ ford mustangs and another for 96+ ford mustangs. They all seem to be the same SCT XCAL 2 unit so are they all the same or are any of them different somehow? I was lookin at this one http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NIB-F...spagenameZWDVW So with this it seems to me im able to tell the computer i have larger injectors and maf, once i get them that is, and with these three things together i will be able to make it stop fuel cutting..yes? lol By chance is their any other tuner out their like the xcal that could do the same thing i might start lookin for... thanks a lot guys __________________ New block with forged internals running 16psi, tuned by Lasota Racing Too many mods to list... 3.73's and Truetrac Finally Done! Water-methanol injection? Dyno Tune fo sho, Street tune FTL!

December 7th, 2006, 04:45 AM	#10
97TunedMustang Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 963	If someone could see this and let me know real quick thatd be amazing. Im looking at bidding on this auction here but i want to make sure that if i get this all i will need is an sct xcal 2 to make it all work. is that correct? I know you go in the device to change maf and injector parameters but does anything else have to be changed or technically "tuned" like fuel mapping or ignition timing by a shop to make this setup work? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...3288353&rd=1,1 Also it doesnt say in the auction the maf is neccesarily the stock 90mm maf but it is one from a lightning that has been calibrated for the injectors so i should be ok then right? I really would like to get this if its something thats going to work for a good price but i dont want to get it if its not going to do what i'm after. thanks a lot guys __________________ New block with forged internals running 16psi, tuned by Lasota Racing Too many mods to list... 3.73's and Truetrac Finally Done! Water-methanol injection? Dyno Tune fo sho, Street tune FTL!

December 7th, 2006, 06:26 PM	#13
ssajdowitz Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Bend, Wisconsin Posts: 141	I took a look at that auction for the maf and injectors. The injectors will fit in your car without getting new electrical connecters like I had to do. As for the maf, I'm not sure. Since it is calibrated for the injectors, it should be fine. But, I'm not sure how much an x-cal is going to like tuning it. It will probably work fine, but don't quote me on that. The x-cal should be the same, it's the tune that differs between years. If you find a used x-cal that already has a tune on it, don't use the tune. They are written specifically for your car. I don't know how much each tune file costs from the sct dealer, but they usually just e-mail them to you. And, once a car has been tuned with an x-cal it becomes locked. It cannot be used on another car unless the stock tune is returned to the first car. __________________ To the Optimist, the glass is half full. To the Pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

December 7th, 2006, 06:29 PM	#14
ssajdowitz Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: West Bend, Wisconsin Posts: 141	You will also need a bigger fuel pump. I run a 255lph walbro in the tank. __________________ To the Optimist, the glass is half full. To the Pessimist, the glass is half empty. To the Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

December 7th, 2006, 09:00 PM	#15
97TunedMustang Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 963	ok thanks a lot guys for the replies. I messaged the guy with the tuner and he said it had been cleared out by the dealer so it has no existing tunes on it and all 3 tunes on the unit are available to be used on any vehicle as if it were new. Now i know i need the sct tuner to tune it, but other then being used to change the ecu parameters for the injectors and the MAF size, when you say "tuned" do you mean i actually need an sct dealer to make me a tune for the car? am i able to change these parameters myself or are you saying i need to have a tune sent to me with the different settings already in place? Another question can normal tuning shops do anything with these devices or is it limited to mail order tunes? Also i already have a 255lph fuel pump so i'm good there. __________________ New block with forged internals running 16psi, tuned by Lasota Racing Too many mods to list... 3.73's and Truetrac Finally Done! Water-methanol injection? Dyno Tune fo sho, Street tune FTL!

December 8th, 2006, 02:44 AM	#16
97TunedMustang Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 963	Really if someone could give me some insight before like tomorrow at 5 thatd be spectacular cause i gotta decide by then whether or not to try and bid on this maf and injector package. I need maf, injectors, xcal 2. is what ive gathered thus far. Now what i dont know is if i can make this setup work and be able to change the parameters myself in order to make it work. If not do i need a tune from an SCT dealer and if that is the case, how do i go about doing that? Theoretically if i had the maf and injectors and the xcal 2 what would i need to do to make it all work besides changing the maf and injector settings? Help is greatly appreciated! __________________ New block with forged internals running 16psi, tuned by Lasota Racing Too many mods to list... 3.73's and Truetrac Finally Done! Water-methanol injection? Dyno Tune fo sho, Street tune FTL!

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December 8th, 2006, 01:11 PM	#17
twinturbo Regular Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 60	The xcal2 is juts a loading device, It holds the tunes made for your car, and are loaded into your car. You will always find the best deal by purchasing the xcal2 from your tuner. At any rate, your car requires a custom tune, and the tuner who does this is the most important aspect of the whole deal. That person is responsible for making or breaking the car, and assuming they are as knowledgabe as they should be, should be able to advise you as to the best course of action.

December 8th, 2006, 03:44 PM	#19
97TunedMustang Enthusiast Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 963	I was actually looking at getting 48lb injectors in the auction i posted earlier so that'd be bigger..then 42lb'ers. lol i still dont know what route im goin cause the guy at lasotaracing told me they would be a problem..not sure why though. waitin on a reply. im thinkin i might get a xcal from them since they seem to know what theyre doin and then i guess you get 3 tunes from them and they will keep working on ur setup by datalogging your car till its just right. so sounds like it might be the route to go. __________________ New block with forged internals running 16psi, tuned by Lasota Racing Too many mods to list... 3.73's and Truetrac Finally Done! Water-methanol injection? Dyno Tune fo sho, Street tune FTL!