[bullwinkl]

Hey all,

I'm at a crossroads and wondering what to do.

Heres the scenario, I can give you better details if you really want to know.

My, (used to be), 99 mustang 3.8L overheated from Elpaso to Corpus, Tx. They tried to add water, duh, drove and added more and died.

Hauled it home, sat for one month, cooling system completely empty, oil carmel sludge.

Pulled all plugs, last 2 on each side full of same sludge. drained sludge, removed filter, added oil to drain more sludge from pan.

Charged battery, cranked engine, supprisingly it moved, checked all 6 compressions, ranging from 170-180ea. surprised no leakage.

Cleaned plugs and replaced, added some oil and some marvel mystery to full installed new oil filter.

Cranked engine and started up, 5 seconds and I turned it off.

Started it again and ran smooooth, 15 seconds, no clanking, other than some smoking out the exhaust, suspected from contaminated cylinders.

Checked oil, looked ok.

Removed thermostant, added water, check oil and the oil level went up.

Drained oil pan to get rid of water.

It has 98,000 mi. and belongs to my daughter now.

So, what should i do? Sell it?, Should I buy it back and make it a project car?
Should I yank the engine and dissasemble? Or put in a Long Block, Short Block? I consider myself capable of doing this but just wondering if it is worth the time.

I appreciate the advice. Oh, what would this be worth if we would sell? I suspect a repair like this would be around 5K-6K.

[GreenFaleen]

sounds like you blow the head gasket. Id go ahead and just sale it get a new one

[stephen]

The car probably isn't worth much as is. The blue book value is maybe $4K and it would cost more than that to get a shop to repair it.

The minimum the engine would need is new head gaskets and resurface the heads. There could also be a cracked head. You might try removing the heads and have a machine shop check them out. You should check the block gasket surface as well using a straight edge. Possibly reconditioning the heads and new head gaskets would fix it.
To be sure you should remove and disassemble the engine and have a machine shop check out the block as well. I would have them align hone the mains, deck it, and hone the cylinders and install new freeze plugs.

Another option is a used engine.

[GreenFaleen]

autozone sales a replacement for about 3k and it comes with a decent warranty its just a refurbished engine but thats another thing to look at

[99v6stang]

Dont sell the car, you wont get shit for it with a blown head gasket, and buying a new motor or having yours rebuilt will cost as much as the car is worth. Check ebay and craigslist to find yourself a used motor, and just swap it out. It is very easy and can be done in one day with basic hand tools and an engine hoist

[stephen]

Originally Posted by 99v6stang Dont sell the car, you wont get shit for it with a blown head gasket, and buying a new motor or having yours rebuilt will cost as much as the car is worth. Check ebay and craigslist to find yourself a used motor, and just swap it out. It is very easy and can be done in one day with basic hand tools and an engine hoist

I tend to agree. With the engine being driven some distance while overheated and with coolant in the oil, it's likely it needs a complete rebuild.

[speedfreak]

Lets not go down the expensive road yet, if you have some know how on engines and can do the work yourself. If you know how to work on a car change the head gasket, put it back together and see how she does. If you cant do the work yourself, I would go for the engine swap.

[stephen]

I doubt just replacing the head gaskets would fix this engine.

Possible problems include.

1. a cracked or warped head

2. a warped block

3. scuffed pistons/bores

4. damaged bearings from running with coolant in the oil

It might be possible to remove the heads and have them checked for warpage or cracks and surface them and reinstall. The block gasket surface should be checked for straightness. If it's not still straight the block may be warped. At the same time check the cylinders for evidence of scoring.

If there is a cracked or warped head or evidence of block damage, it would be better to start with another core or get a good used engine.

[stephen]

Here's an option. Bolt up these new heads with a new gasket set, change the oil, and recondition the cooling system and see how it works out. If there are still problems all you have wasted is a gasket set.

eBay Motors: Ford 3.8, 4.2 New Cylinder Head 3.8L, 4.2L YF2E, F75E (item 190149522628 end time Oct-28-08 18:09:54 PDT)

[Onemanzu]

see if you can't find a used engine with low miles of ebay. thats always a viable option.

[04mustang232]

I agree with everyone, i think its a blown head gasket. Buy why wouldnt that affect the cyllinder pressures?

[Roadhawg]

Originally Posted by stephen I doubt just replacing the head gaskets would fix this engine. Possible problems include. 1. a cracked or warped head 2. a warped block 3. scuffed pistons/bores 4. damaged bearings from running with coolant in the oil

My first choice on that list would be:

4. damaged bearings from running with coolant in the oil

[Onemanzu]

eBay Motors: 01 02 03 04 MUSTANG ENGINE 3.8L 3.8 89K MILES LOOK!!!!! (item 130256269127 end time Oct-18-08 07:29:13 PDT)

[bullwinkl]

Thanks for Ya'll advice,

I'm not sure how long it was run with contaminated oil, the way I understood it, they stopped while hot. Let it cool, drove slower 30min, car acted up, hesitant, hot again, stopped and set for a while, added water, tried to go and died, no crank nothing, had it towed.

When I got a chance to check it, a month later, it even had the carmel sludge up and thru the air cleaner and filter compartent. What a mess.

I found a Reman long block on ebay for $1399, doesnt seem to bad, just wondering how much time I have available to do this.

I'd hate to sell it, we're the original owners and passed it to my daughter 3 years ago for a small fee. Only had 36k miles when she got it and brings it back broke with 90k plus.

Anyways, I'll keep thinking about it. I could do this work, maybe show my younger son "HOW TO" if I can get him away from the Xbox.

I grew up with a 67' during high school in the late 70's and my older brother sold it out from under us. Wish I woulda had the chance to buy it then.

[04mustang232]

1399 is waaaay to much. You can find them for under 900. But, if thats the only one and you need it asap...

[fairlane_68]

I'm gonna step in this one with both feet. This is meant for anyone who's had this problem, experienced or not.

I used to make alot of money on these cars at Ford Dealers doing head gasket and timing covers under recall and warranty. Mustangs, Taurus, Sables, Continentals, and F-150's...all the same issues. The only time I have ever replaced an engine due to head gaskets or timing cover is when a rod got bent, or the owner drove it long after the oil was contaminated and fubar'd the crank and rods. I will tell you straight up...these engines, 3.8's and 4.2's are junk as they were built from the plant, and Ford knew it. Rebuilt right, they'll last forever. Quality head gaskets (Fel-Pro), and ARP head studs cures the problem.

Here's what you can do: sell me the car because I'm looking for a cheap roller to build into a race car , OR, save yourself the expense of buying a reman engine or selling a car with a "bad" motor, and fix it right yourself.

1. Pull the motor out. Put it on an engine stand. If it's a manual transmission car, you've saved yourself about an hour labor. Drop the transmission down from it's mounts to get access to all the bellhousing bolts. Pull the motor out by attaching a small chain to the exhaust manifold bolts that have extra threads on them, connected once on each side to balance the engine. It can be removed easiest by removing the hood and leaving everything on the motor, including the AC compressor if you have a way to evac the system. Trust me, it's faster and easier to keep track of nuts and bolts when you tear it down on a stand.

2. Tear the engine down. Make sure you have some good cleaning agent around, because you'll need it. From here it gets messy and stinky. Think along the lines of baby puke with a foul odor. Exhaust manifold bolts are 13MM, intake bolts are 10 and 13MM ( I believe), valve cover bolts are 8MM, accessory bolts are 13MM, 15MM, and one 18MM right behind the power steering pump, if I remember correctly. Head bolts are either 13 or 15MM, depending on when the engine was built. Oil pan bolts are either 8 or 10MM, and timing cover bolts are either 10 or 13MM. Remove the intake, exhaust manifolds, and timing cover. Keep the oil pan on to hold the mess as much as possible. Yank the heads off and clean them, if you have a flat bar like the one Snap-On sells, check them for warp. If they need it, send them off to have a light resurface and recheck for flatness. Clean the block, piston tops, and coolant and oil passages, and keep track of any lifters that fall out.

3. Roll the motor over. Drain it first though, unless you like a mess. Remove the oil pan, and remove the rod caps. Look at the bearings. If you see any copper, you'll need new bearings. If they're nothing but copper, you'll have to have the crank turned and the rods machined. Fortunately, these engine blocks are resilient...they can take a decent amount of punishment. If everything looks OK and you see no copper, remove the mains and inspect them. If they look OK, replace all the bearings and reassemble with 5W30 engine oil, NOT assembly lube. NOTE: if you didn't hear a knocking sound before, most likely the bearings survived. Still remove the bearing caps and clean the crap out of the oil passages...this is where alot of mechanics and technicians screw up a good engine.

4. Reassemble with the right parts. ARP head studs, and Fel-Pro gaskets. Ford's engine bearings are made by Clevite 77, so stick with them. Follow the torque specs, and replace anything that needs or should be replaced while you're this far into it...thermostat, clutch, spark plugs, whatever. Remember to put a light coat of oil on the threads of the head stud nuts or you'll get a false torque reading. Follow the instructions for installing the studs. My personal recommendation is to buy a bottle of Ford Diesel Coolant Additive from your local Ford Dealer, they're about $12.00, and it keeps the inside of the water passages from getting corroded. The Motorcraft number for it used to be FW-16. One bottle is all you need. New oil filter, and change the oil twice to get all the debris out that may have been missed.

PM me if you have any questions. I may have some parts left over, I may even have a package of exhaust manifold bolts lying around too.

Hope this helps.

[itschristorres8]

if you add water and you get a higher oil level you have a much bigger problem then just a blown head gasket
overheating can cause ALL kinds of problems like holes in your cylinder walls

no offense but if your considering as an option to throw a long or short block in the car. you shouldnt be putting the motor in your car seeing as none are turn key
and a short block requires heads and cam, and valvetrain which is your long block

if you have water in your oil that can and probably has damaged you oil pump, filter, bearings and cylinder walls
also disturb the coolant system
if you have water in your oil you DEFFINITLY have oil in your water seeing that its 16psi vs the 40+ psi your oil pressure builds up to
which could have clogged your radiator and damged other cooling systems parts

[speedfreak]

Originally Posted by 04mustang232 I agree with everyone, i think its a blown head gasket. Buy why wouldnt that affect the cyllinder pressures?

I do not think he had water in the radiator at the time. It was clean and drained and tested before water got back in the engine. But water would not make the cylinders loos pressure anyway, it just ruins the oil and the purpose of the oil. The blown gasket may only affect one of them where the main problem area is. the other cylinders should still be good.

[stephen]

We can speculate all day long about what is wrong with this engine, but what needs to be done is to remove it from the car and at least remove the heads and oil pan and have a look. I would recommend sending the bare block, heads, crankshaft etc. out to a machine shop to be cleaned and measured. Then we will know exactly what is needed.

At the same time remove the radiator and have it cleaned out and leak tested and replace the t-stat, water pump, and all the hoses so we know it won't overheat again.