[AMChrisRose]

Originally Posted by mustangmike! *snip*

We don't tune cams for 1996-2004 Mustangs. The reason is that whether or not anyone wants to admit it, these cars are getting older. They don't have consistency in their idle-tuning and neutral air tables. I've sent 96-04 cam files out with no issues before, but because of the volume we do, we can't guarantee the idle will be perfect. It will be very close (the rest of the tune's operation would be spot on, we're talking strictly idle), but that's not acceptable quality assurance for us.

The 96-04 cars are starting to develop vacuum leaks, dirty throttle bodies, iac, etc. Hell, even 2005 Mustangs are 7 year old cars at this point. Many of them have seen how quickly a dirty throttle body can affect their car. It wasn't that your car was "too extreme", we just choose not to tune 96-04 cams because we know that this is going to result in a less-than-perfect experience for our customers. We probably lose $100,000 a year by turning that away, but we get alot of happy customers for it. Look at how many 96-04 cammed cars running mail-order tunes DO have issues. Then the tuner has to rape the idle tables to keep driveability in check. Either way, you had to contact them to get it fixed. That doesn't fit our business plan or expected level of quality.

For the record this post has nothing to do with VMP. Justin is a great calibrator. I was speaking very generally.

[AMChrisRose]

Originally Posted by ESG-642T ^ Chris, the guy who posted above you was told by Bama that they couldn't tune his car because it was too heavily modded

We just choose not to. I've got plenty of cammed files for 2V's. They run great, but they're all vastly different and not consistent enough to send out to thousands of customers. A dirty IAC and the car stalls or RPM's dip. Then you have to call back and have us tweak it. Nobody wants to hear that they have a dirty IAC and that's whats causing the issue. Flip that... If the car you develop the tune on has a dirty IAC, the cars you send it out to all high-idle.

Cam tuning on 96-04 2v's is case-by-case basis because of their age. We send out literally over 100 cammed files a week for 2005+ vehicles. They have no issues. Cam tuning for the 96-04 isn't much different from 05-09 other than variable cam timing. It's not a matter of can we, it's a matter of keeping things operating smooth and customer satisfaction high.

He said it himself, the tunes were fine before we said no. Our tunes were only "shit" when we said no. If he had sent me a PM asking to do it as a personal favor to hold him over, I would have had no problem doing it. We hook people up with special requests (for being active forum members) all the time.

I even occasionally send out the free tune to help a forum member out who's having alot of trouble. I've done it on here before!

[ESG-642T]

Yep 2v, 3v, 4v, 2011....

essex V6 mustang support not so much, which is why I said I would have wen't to VMP or tricktuners

[mustangmike!]

Exactly why I would have liked one to "get me by". But customer service would have been to explain that in the return email, instead of simply saying no. And if my car is "not to extreme" then dont tell me that. Knowing that you are capable of sending a tune of that, and saying that you cant is what I think negatively about in customer service.

Dirty IAC's can be cleaned, replaced ect ect as well as any other problem.

Like I said my issue is the turning down manner, instead of explaining as to why you cant and others can. Edit: correction, why you wont, and others will....

[AMChrisRose]

Originally Posted by ESG-642T Yep 2v, 3v, 4v, 2011.... essex V6 mustang support not so much, which is why I said I would have wen't to VMP or tricktuners

Sorry, but I do have V6 cammed files. Again, 96-04 becomes a "remote tune" because of all of the variables. This goes for any company not just us. Sometimes they/we can send out a file and it's spot on, sometimes it needs to be further dialed in to work around things like I mentioned... vacuum leak, dirty maf, tb, iac, etc. VMP/Trick Tuners can't access/do anything we can't do, and vice versa. They haven't tuned anything we haven't and again... vice versa. They know as well as we do that GENERALLY speaking, the older the vehicle get, the more owners, the more mileage, the more is in your way in regards to consistency.

[AMChrisRose]

Originally Posted by mustangmike! Exactly why I would have liked one to "get me by". But customer service would have been to explain that in the return email, instead of simply saying no. And if my car is "not to extreme" then dont tell me that. Knowing that you are capable of sending a tune of that, and saying that you cant is what I think negatively about in customer service. Dirty IAC's can be cleaned, replaced ect ect as well as any other problem. Like I said my issue is the turning down manner, instead of explaining as to why you cant and others can. Edit: correction, why you wont, and others will....

I'd have to see the email, but I'm assuming that it was the automated response they send out. If we need to modify the tone or wording of that email, then I apologize. I hope you realize that we do as many as 1000 tunes a week, and the staffing alone required to send out a personalized email is nearly impossible. We have a tuning department dedicated to support emails, writing files, developing tunes, researching new products, consistency and accuracy testing on the dyno/street and at the track, etc. That's where we want their focus, so we automate a few emails (the one you receive when you purchase, the one asking for your tune info, the one you receive if you fail to fill out tune info within a few days, the one you received where we don't support a certain modification, and the typical sales/survey/shipping emails). We have a staff of over 140 and even at that, these emails still must be streamlined to prevent issues and allow us to deliver a good turn-around time while still maintaining a top-notch quality tune. I do appreciate this feedback, I just wish we could have received it without forcing you to go through the forums. Either way, I appreciate it. You're right... an automated email that isn't worded just the right way makes me feel like it says "you're screwed!". I will discuss changing this on Monday.

[chiefsmustang20]

Chris not trying to dog you guys as a matter of fact I love you guys I buy my stuff From their all the time but I have had problems with my tune.. You think you can help me out I dont care if it's spot on I know you guys try yalls best with cammed cars I've gotten it revised twice still no difference and my 91 tune feels whack so I'm on 87 right now .. On the stock tune only code i throw is my o2 sensors but on a performance tune i throw a cmp code...if you can help me out I'd appreciate it man ... Pm me if you'd like thank you sir

[AMChrisRose]

Originally Posted by chiefsmustang20 Chris not trying to dog you guys as a matter of fact I love you guys I buy my stuff From their all the time but I have had problems with my tune.. You think you can help me out I dont care if it's spot on I know you guys try yalls best with cammed cars I've gotten it revised twice still no difference and my 91 tune feels whack so I'm on 87 right now .. On the stock tune only code i throw is my o2 sensors but on a performance tune i throw a cmp code...if you can help me out I'd appreciate it man ... Pm me if you'd like thank you sir

No problem. So you have a 2002 cammed Mustang with a Bama tune? I'm just trying to see because we don't do 96-04 cam tuning. So I'm wondering if the Bama agent you spoke to was aware there was a cam? If not... that would be the issue. I'll hook you up though. Once I get some more info about your car from you, I'll take a look at what's going on.

I am assuming the stock tune o2 sensor codes are just P0420 and P0430 for not having cats (rear o2 sensor codes)?

What's your name so I can look up the info? PM it to me if you want, first and last name.

[ESG-642T]

Originally Posted by AMChrisRose Sorry, but I do have V6 cammed files. Again, 96-04 becomes a "remote tune" because of all of the variables. This goes for any company not just us. Sometimes they/we can send out a file and it's spot on, sometimes it needs to be further dialed in to work around things like I mentioned... vacuum leak, dirty maf, tb, iac, etc. VMP/Trick Tuners can't access/do anything we can't do, and vice versa. They haven't tuned anything we haven't and again... vice versa. They know as well as we do that GENERALLY speaking, the older the vehicle get, the more owners, the more mileage, the more is in your way in regards to consistency.

You can also get a new car, with an "idiot" for an owner who installs simple things wrong and leaves things unplugged, hoses off, etc. That makes for tuning hell also!

Maybe I should just get a tune from bama and go dyno all 3.... then we can compare the fair way

[AMChrisRose]

Originally Posted by ESG-642T You can also get a new car, with an "idiot" for an owner who installs simple things wrong and leaves things unplugged, hoses off, etc. That makes for tuning hell also! Maybe I should just get a tune from bama and go dyno all 3.... then we can compare the fair way

Exactly! I've had people with x brand MAF sensors and oxygen sensors that some regular auto shop replaced them with the cheapest thing they could find. They don't trim for shit, they have a terrible MAF signal, etc. There's tons of variables.

I'm willing to bet if you ordered 10 mail order tunes from Bama, VMP, TrickTuners, Amazon, Evo, Lethal, JDM, Lidio, blah blah blah, any reputable tuners out there, they'd all be very close. There's only so many things you can do. 28-30 degrees timing on 93, 12.8 air/fuel ratio... horsepower/torque is going to be pretty damn close.

[VinceS2K]

doo it^^^

[mustangmike!]

Kyle ... KMA 1st time for everything !!!

And thank you for understanding the negative attitiude I have towards that reply ...
A little more detail would be appriciated ... make a link to a page that explains why you cant/wont tune something ...

At this point, until I finish this project and exhuast, would it just be better to leave my car at a "stock" tune. and let it self adjust. Only issue is tire size and gears w/ speedo ...

[AMChrisRose]

Originally Posted by mustangmike! Kyle ... KMA 1st time for everything !!! And thank you for understanding the negative attitiude I have towards that reply ... A little more detail would be appriciated ... make a link to a page that explains why you cant/wont tune something ... At this point, until I finish this project and exhuast, would it just be better to leave my car at a "stock" tune. and let it self adjust. Only issue is tire size and gears w/ speedo ...

It'll never be able to fill in the idle air tables properly. PM me your rear tire size, gear ratio, full list of mods, sct serial number and your PCM code... I'll shoot you back something. Make sure to include your octane level.

[ESG-642T]

I'm curious:

Do you send in data logs for the tunes?

[AMChrisRose]

Our mail order tunes aren't remote tunes necessarily, so no. However, with that being said we get hundreds of datalogs and dyno sheets from customers every week and make changes for them if necessary or tweak something to their liking. So in some respect, we are a remote tune. It depends on if you take advantage of it or not. Many people datalog and send in dyno sheets and it's spot on and doesn't need changes, so it really all depends.