Exhaust, Cam, injectors, intake... the lot really. - Page 2 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 40 Old July 15th, 2014, 01:36 PM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
OHC230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napa Valley CA
Posts: 1,275
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
But then I got to thinking, if I use a 5.0L fuel pump what will that make my pressure?




Pressure is controlled by the regulator on the fuel rail. It diverts excess fuel back to the tank.


Quote:
But still the question stands, what is the best bang for my buck? I see that the prices range everywhere from 20 to 400 bucks... that’s a bit much for me.


Here’s the story on that; in order to make more power, your engine needs to burn more fuel. A small power increase can be realized with the stock fuel system by raising the volume efficiency as well as the thermal efficiency of the engine. Assuming that you had those things optimized, your engine would still need to burn a half pound of fuel, to make one HP, per cylinder, per hour. With your stock 14 lb. per hour injectors, you’re governed to roughly 105-110 HP max.

Your ECU was calibrated for 14 lb. injectors, but it has the ability to compensate for slightly larger injectors. I think most of us 2.3 Mustang folks agree that 19lb. injectors are at that limit for stock calibration and maybe a bit on the rich side of things.

I think the injectors from the Ford Contour V-6 SE are the best match I've tried. They will give you enough fuel for 130 or so HP. I've built a few Lemons engines for racers and managed to eek out 136 HP with the right mod’s “mostly stock motors” with the contour injectors, but the same engines with a proper tune and larger injectors made over 150 HP.

“The Quarter Horse is by far the cheapest legitimate tuning software+ tuner that I know of. It takes a little effort to learn, but I think if you start with the tuning stuff first, you will end up with a better running car with enormous potential to make power.


You can buy a chip and a J3 adapter for less( $60)and have a shop tune your car (most charge $100/ hr) But every time you make changes top your engine, you will have to go back to the shop. I would save up for the Quarter Horse. Once you have it, you can still take your car to a tuning shop to have an initial tune put on it, then learn about tuning and buy Binary Editor 2012 later.


TVS Supercharged SVO 2.7L

528 HP
561 ft lb
OHC230 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 40 Old July 16th, 2014, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
atv_123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 819 Silver Creek Rd.
Posts: 47
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Skype™ to atv_123
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHC230 View Post
Pressure is controlled by the regulator on the fuel rail. It diverts excess fuel back to the tank.
I figured so but just wanted to make sure. That then simplifies things a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHC230 View Post
Here’s the story on that; in order to make more power, your engine needs to burn more fuel. A small power increase can be realized with the stock fuel system by raising the volume efficiency as well as the thermal efficiency of the engine. Assuming that you had those things optimized, your engine would still need to burn a half pound of fuel, to make one HP, per cylinder, per hour. With your stock 14 lb. per hour injectors, you’re governed to roughly 105-110 HP max.
Ok, so following along with that little equation, the 24lb injectors that Mikel89us suggested before should work just fine along with leaving room for more power in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHC230 View Post
Your ECU was calibrated for 14 lb. injectors, but it has the ability to compensate for slightly larger injectors. I think most of us 2.3 Mustang folks agree that 19lb. injectors are at that limit for stock calibration and maybe a bit on the rich side of things.[/B]
I had read that before as well, I was considering 17lb before I decided I was gonna go all out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHC230 View Post
I think the injectors from the Ford Contour V-6 SE are the best match I've tried. They will give you enough fuel for 130 or so HP. I've built a few Lemons engines for racers and managed to eek out 136 HP with the right mod’s “mostly stock motors” with the contour injectors, but the same engines with a proper tune and larger injectors made over 150 HP.[/B]
So I would want larger injectors than the Contour? Well that gives me somewhere to start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHC230 View Post
“The Quarter Horse is by far the cheapest legitimate tuning software+ tuner that I know of. It takes a little effort to learn, but I think if you start with the tuning stuff first, you will end up with a better running car with enormous potential to make power.

You can buy a chip and a J3 adapter for less( $60)and have a shop tune your car (most charge $100/ hr) But every time you make changes top your engine, you will have to go back to the shop. I would save up for the Quarter Horse. Once you have it, you can still take your car to a tuning shop to have an initial tune put on it, then learn about tuning and buy Binary Editor 2012 later.
Ok, so Quarter Horse first, Add all needed mods, then find a place to do a tune, and then if still needed buy the editor? sounds like a plan. Now off to do more research on the correct injectors.

Edit: Well I found some 24lb/hr injectors, but I seem to have hit a bit of a dilemma. I found these injectors from Holley EFI that are sold individually for 47.95... so all 4 would clock out to 191.80 with free shipping.

http://www.holley.com/522-241.asp

Fine, fine, but I also found these from Ford Racing, which honestly, sound like a better injector. The price of these is 179.99 plus free shipping as well. the kicker is that they are only sold in sets of 8. I can not for the life of me find them in sets of 4.

http://www.buyfordracing.com/ford-ra...-injector-set/

So I guess the question is, would the ones from Ford Racing fit? or should I go with the ones from Holley? If the ones from Ford Racing do fit I can just sell the other 4 I suppose or just keep them as spares if that doesn't work, so I am not to concerned on that front. However I may have missed some and there may be better ones out there.

Real cars don't spin the front tires... THEY LIFT THEM!!!
atv_123 is offline  
post #23 of 40 Old July 17th, 2014, 06:20 AM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
Mikel89us's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Logansport, IN
Posts: 1,131
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to Mikel89us Send a message via Skype™ to Mikel89us
If you want any thing bigger than 19 lb injectors, you will have to have the tuner or the car will barely run if at all. The first thing you should buy is the tuner, then you can buy what ever size injector you want.

The injectors need to be a Bosch style Ev1

1991 Mustang LX 2.3L 5 Speed convert
1989 Ranger 4X4 2.5L 5 Speed solid Dana 30 front axle, 4.5" suspension lift, 3" body. ( blown up....)
Entire turbo kit waiting to be used again.
Mikel89us is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 40 Old July 17th, 2014, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
atv_123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 819 Silver Creek Rd.
Posts: 47
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Skype™ to atv_123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel89us View Post
If you want any thing bigger than 19 lb injectors, you will have to have the tuner or the car will barely run if at all. The first thing you should buy is the tuner, then you can buy what ever size injector you want.

The injectors need to be a Bosch style Ev1
I know, I know, I just want to hammer out the whole shopping list first.

Ok, so if I go along with those then I should get ones like these?

TRE 24lb Wide Body Bosch Style Fuel Injectors 250cc Ford Mustang 2.3T 2.3L Turbo BMW Audi 240cc - TREperformance.com

If thats the case then thats a lot cheaper than what I was looking at erlier so thanks for that

Real cars don't spin the front tires... THEY LIFT THEM!!!
atv_123 is offline  
post #25 of 40 Old July 17th, 2014, 01:46 PM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
OHC230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napa Valley CA
Posts: 1,275
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
I agree with Mike's advice on this, definitely start with the tuner. I would suggest a larger injector than the 24lb. I would shoot for 36lb per hour.

I'm not as fond of the older style EV1 injectors as I am with newer designs, like the EV6. I've noticed a difference in idle quality, throttle response and better emissions results from the newer versions. The Contour injectors are of the EV6 variety, but will still fit in the same location as the older style EV1's, if you wanted to try some in the interim.
They can be found in the wrecking yard for about $40.


Click on the link below.


Tre 36lb White Giant Fuel Injectors Fit Bosch M10 Turbo DOHC 420A 380cc MIN TT 4 | eBay





TVS Supercharged SVO 2.7L

528 HP
561 ft lb
OHC230 is offline  
post #26 of 40 Old July 17th, 2014, 02:57 PM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
Mikel89us's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Logansport, IN
Posts: 1,131
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to Mikel89us Send a message via Skype™ to Mikel89us
I thought the ev6 were the round plug.

1991 Mustang LX 2.3L 5 Speed convert
1989 Ranger 4X4 2.5L 5 Speed solid Dana 30 front axle, 4.5" suspension lift, 3" body. ( blown up....)
Entire turbo kit waiting to be used again.
Mikel89us is offline  
post #27 of 40 Old July 17th, 2014, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
atv_123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 819 Silver Creek Rd.
Posts: 47
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Skype™ to atv_123
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel89us View Post
I thought the ev6 were the round plug.
If you are talking about the electrical connectors, I know that I saw a lot of little converters that you can buy to convert from one to the other so that you can use the new Injectors with the old style connectors. The nice thing is that they are relatively inexpensive as well.

Injector plug converters for EV1 to EV6

Real cars don't spin the front tires... THEY LIFT THEM!!!
atv_123 is offline  
post #28 of 40 Old July 18th, 2014, 01:28 PM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
OHC230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napa Valley CA
Posts: 1,275
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
I thought the ev6 were the round plug.
Mike, I've seen both types of plugs on these, depending on the application. Here's a set that you might be interested in.




Siemens 80lb HR Fuel Injectors Fit EV1 Bosch Audi Ford Turbo 1 8T 2 3L Racing 4 | eBay





TVS Supercharged SVO 2.7L

528 HP
561 ft lb
OHC230 is offline  
post #29 of 40 Old July 18th, 2014, 11:29 PM
Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Arlington WA
Posts: 208
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
What ecu was finally selected?
Injector impedance should match the ecu's expected value... And that is determined by hardware, not tuning/moates/binary editor specific...
vristang is offline  
post #30 of 40 Old July 23rd, 2014, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
atv_123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 819 Silver Creek Rd.
Posts: 47
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Skype™ to atv_123
By ECU are you referring to the tuning chip? If that's the case I am going with the Quarter Horse.

I also understand it is hardware specific, I was just curious if I needed to change the impedances by adding resistors or what not them to work with the system that is in place or if I could just tune the software with the Quarter Horse far enough to make anything work.

Real cars don't spin the front tires... THEY LIFT THEM!!!

Last edited by atv_123; July 24th, 2014 at 05:24 PM.
atv_123 is offline  
post #31 of 40 Old July 24th, 2014, 09:41 AM
Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Arlington WA
Posts: 208
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
The 2.3t computers have hardware in the ecu that require LOW impedance injectors.

Most anything that was NOT turbo'd will use a computer that is configured for HIGH impedance injectors.

What ecu/computer will you be using?

Injector impedance cannot be tuned via QH.

Some have claimed success using resistor packs, but I would not do it that way on my own car...
I would just use the right parts to start with.
vristang is offline  
post #32 of 40 Old July 24th, 2014, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
atv_123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 819 Silver Creek Rd.
Posts: 47
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Skype™ to atv_123
Ok, well I intend on using the stock ECU in this car (because I can't afford another one) along with a quarter horse to get the computer to work with the large change in engine performance done by these upgrades.

Real cars don't spin the front tires... THEY LIFT THEM!!!
atv_123 is offline  
post #33 of 40 Old July 24th, 2014, 08:25 PM
Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Arlington WA
Posts: 208
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Is your car MAF or SD?

I don't know of any SD ecu's that are well supported by BE software.
I may have one or 2 options Laying around if you need a MAF ecu though... Cheap

All the n/a 2.3 cars used high impedance injectors though...
Which are typically around 14 ohm

24 lb should be easy to find used/cheap at that impedance, and there are even some 4 hole versions out there...
vristang is offline  
post #34 of 40 Old July 24th, 2014, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
atv_123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 819 Silver Creek Rd.
Posts: 47
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Skype™ to atv_123
My car is not a MAF vehicle, however, I do have another car that might be. Would a 92 Mustang LX 2.3L have a MAF? I have never personaly checked, but if it is than that one is there for the taking. Otherwise, I would be willing to do that

14Ohm? Got it!

As for the Injectors I was planning on going with the EV6 36lb fuel injectors and see if I can find them for that.

Real cars don't spin the front tires... THEY LIFT THEM!!!
atv_123 is offline  
post #35 of 40 Old July 25th, 2014, 02:55 AM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
OHC230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napa Valley CA
Posts: 1,275
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
I don't know of any SD ecu's that are well supported by BE software.


LA series ECU with Speed density code using GM 3 bar map sensor






.


TVS Supercharged SVO 2.7L

528 HP
561 ft lb
OHC230 is offline  
post #36 of 40 Old July 25th, 2014, 08:06 AM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
Mikel89us's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Logansport, IN
Posts: 1,131
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to Mikel89us Send a message via Skype™ to Mikel89us
OHC, I have not figured out yet how to modify code to be able to switch sensors, is there a simple way to do this?

1991 Mustang LX 2.3L 5 Speed convert
1989 Ranger 4X4 2.5L 5 Speed solid Dana 30 front axle, 4.5" suspension lift, 3" body. ( blown up....)
Entire turbo kit waiting to be used again.
Mikel89us is offline  
post #37 of 40 Old July 25th, 2014, 08:29 AM
Regular
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Arlington WA
Posts: 208
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
Originally Posted by OHC230 View Post

LA series ECU with Speed density code using GM 3 bar map sensor
You got me, lol
The 2.3t guys seem to love that setup. I have also run the LA3 with a MAF conversion on an n/a car with some success.

But the factory 2.3 SD definitions are very poorly supported, if at all.

Mike,
Making the code changes requires knowing the hex code.
That should all save with the definition/strategy file though.... So it should be as easy as loading the la3-sd definition...
vristang is offline  
post #38 of 40 Old July 25th, 2014, 10:55 AM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
Mikel89us's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Logansport, IN
Posts: 1,131
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Yahoo to Mikel89us Send a message via Skype™ to Mikel89us
I am using the c1a1 strategy. Had to buy it from sailorbob. Its a maf setup, but I'm thinking about turboing it. Need better fuel management for that!

1991 Mustang LX 2.3L 5 Speed convert
1989 Ranger 4X4 2.5L 5 Speed solid Dana 30 front axle, 4.5" suspension lift, 3" body. ( blown up....)
Entire turbo kit waiting to be used again.
Mikel89us is offline  
post #39 of 40 Old July 25th, 2014, 03:35 PM
Hardcore Enthusiast
 
OHC230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Napa Valley CA
Posts: 1,275
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Quote:
But the factory 2.3 SD definitions are very poorly supported, if at all.
Yeah, absolutely agree, that's why I use the turbo ECU for both N/A and turbo applications.
I've successfully used some of the lower HP turbo ECU's in mildly modified 2.3's, even without tuning, they were not that far off surprisingly.


TVS Supercharged SVO 2.7L

528 HP
561 ft lb
OHC230 is offline  
post #40 of 40 Old August 13th, 2014, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
Newbie
 
atv_123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: 819 Silver Creek Rd.
Posts: 47
 
iTrader: 0 reviews
Send a message via Skype™ to atv_123
Welp... I start college again next weekend, so I guess this projects timeline is gonna get boosted into next years build... I will keep coming I on here to hammer out my shopping list as well... Right now I have been looking into what parts to buy... But once I get past finals week I will start hammering it out again.

Real cars don't spin the front tires... THEY LIFT THEM!!!

Last edited by atv_123; October 14th, 2014 at 03:07 PM.
atv_123 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Forums at Modded Mustangs forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome