351w or rebuild the 302? - Forums at Modded Mustangs
 
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post #1 of 12 Old February 3rd, 2016, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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351w or rebuild the 302?

So the 86 I bought in June has a tired 302 in it. And I have decided I'm gonna take the car off the road and do a complete build over the next few years. So my question, do a 351w swap or rebuild the 302? I plan to build a street car, something I can drive reliably (hopefully) with much better handling. And I ideally I would like enough power to keep up with the modern muscle cars.
So which build is going to be most cost effective, as budget is key?
Also I know the 86 does not have mass air sensor, can I do a 351w swap with mass air sensor (because I heard that was easier to tune)?

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post #2 of 12 Old February 3rd, 2016, 11:19 PM
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If it were me, I'd definitely do a 351. I'm not sure but I'd assume you can get a mass air sensor to work with your swap I don't see why you couldn't I'd figure you'd have to get one to make it run.

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post #3 of 12 Old February 4th, 2016, 01:24 PM
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If you're building from the ground up, you can do pretty much whatever you want. Mass air, speed density, carb, etc.

Personally, if you're planning on this being a long term project, I'd look into one of the plug and play EFI systems (Holley, FAST, etc.).
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post #4 of 12 Old February 4th, 2016, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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I had not thought about the Holley setup.... good idea
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post #5 of 12 Old February 4th, 2016, 07:54 PM
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FiTech Fuel Injection

Put his in a 351w and be done. Thats my plan.

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post #6 of 12 Old February 4th, 2016, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
So which build is going to be most cost effective, as budget is key?
Fast, good , cheap, pick 2. If you don't have the means to upgrade your whole driveline, I would stick to a 302.


83 GT : waitinf for it's new motor
82 Capri 393, AFR headed, T56 6 speed. 4w discs, 5 lug, PH bar, Koni shocks, ect... sold
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post #7 of 12 Old February 4th, 2016, 08:43 PM
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I'm going to jump back into the pool right quick...

I'd say go with the 351. You can stroke it out to a 393 or a 408.

The 351 based block will hold plenty more power than a 302 based block, and you'll get gobs of torque to go with it.

You can keep prices down by, lets face it, going with some imported parts. People like to shit on Eagle, but their forged stuff is fine. 4340 crank and rods will hold up to more than even a factory 351 block will do, and you won't be paying out the wazoo. Pistons, you've got a ton of choices. Mahle, JE, SRP, Ross, Arias, Wiseco, Speed Pro, Probe (though rumor has it he's closing up shop). Lots of choice. You can even get pre-balanced kits, and you can choose your piston type. Most companies give you a choice of cast vs. forged pistons. Go forged. Just in case you want to throw nitrous or something like that later on.

Cylinder heads. Again, quite a few choices. The big power guys like Twisted Wedge and AFR. Both are good, both are $$$. I'm looking into Edelbrock, which again, a damn good head for not a ton of money. That being said, I wouldn't take their pre-installed parts, I'm going to order bare heads and select my own valves, springs, etc. You usually end up having to change springs, no matter the head, when you choose the cam.

Cams: shitton of options. Comp, Crane, Isky, Crower, etc. Most people will tell you to go custom, and most of those people will probably tell you go talk to Ed Curtis at FlowTech. He does lots of cams for lots of people in the Mustang community.

After that, it's the usual stuff. Machining can and will add up quickly. Align hone the mains with ARP studs. Deck plate hone with head studs. Cleaning. Surfacing the blocks. Lots and lots to do!
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post #8 of 12 Old February 4th, 2016, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edgethis View Post
FiTech Fuel Injection

Put his in a 351w and be done. Thats my plan.
This thing looks mean and simple enough and not too terribly expensive for what it does

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4eyedfoxdriver View Post
Fast, good , cheap, pick 2. If you don't have the means to upgrade your whole driveline, I would stick to a 302.
I am planning to do the whole drivetrain...... eventually

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyT View Post
I'm going to jump back into the pool right quick...

I'd say go with the 351. You can stroke it out to a 393 or a 408.

The 351 based block will hold plenty more power than a 302 based block, and you'll get gobs of torque to go with it.

You can keep prices down by, lets face it, going with some imported parts. People like to shit on Eagle, but their forged stuff is fine. 4340 crank and rods will hold up to more than even a factory 351 block will do, and you won't be paying out the wazoo. Pistons, you've got a ton of choices. Mahle, JE, SRP, Ross, Arias, Wiseco, Speed Pro, Probe (though rumor has it he's closing up shop). Lots of choice. You can even get pre-balanced kits, and you can choose your piston type. Most companies give you a choice of cast vs. forged pistons. Go forged. Just in case you want to throw nitrous or something like that later on.

Cylinder heads. Again, quite a few choices. The big power guys like Twisted Wedge and AFR. Both are good, both are $$$. I'm looking into Edelbrock, which again, a damn good head for not a ton of money. That being said, I wouldn't take their pre-installed parts, I'm going to order bare heads and select my own valves, springs, etc. You usually end up having to change springs, no matter the head, when you choose the cam.

Cams: shitton of options. Comp, Crane, Isky, Crower, etc. Most people will tell you to go custom, and most of those people will probably tell you go talk to Ed Curtis at FlowTech. He does lots of cams for lots of people in the Mustang community.

After that, it's the usual stuff. Machining can and will add up quickly. Align hone the mains with ARP studs. Deck plate hone with head studs. Cleaning. Surfacing the blocks. Lots and lots to do!
This will be my first build. I was leaning toward getting either the 302 or 351w economy block from LMR and using a top end kit and cam and etc. they sell because I was and still am slightly intimidated to pick all of my own parts. Concerned I would pick the wrong stuff and break something and have to start all over again.

2015 F150 - daily
2015 Focus ST - sold
1986 Mustang Saleen clone - new to me
2013 Mustang GT - sold
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post #9 of 12 Old February 5th, 2016, 10:00 AM
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What do you figure your rough overall budget to be? Do you have a stock or aftermarket hood?


83 GT : waitinf for it's new motor
82 Capri 393, AFR headed, T56 6 speed. 4w discs, 5 lug, PH bar, Koni shocks, ect... sold
84 LX Vert 347, AOD ,
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post #10 of 12 Old February 5th, 2016, 01:06 PM
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Buy engine from an engine builder, not a parts hocker. Look at DSS or one of the latest internet sensation shops. I had not heard that Probe was closing, I'm going to email Mark right now and ask him. I use DSS custom pistons and DSS shelf pistons along with Probe and CP for my engine builds. Lots of brands, none are the 'best', each has it's own merits and shortcomings.
If you decide on a holley system, get with me, I sell a lot of them. Windsor is not a 'budget' build. You will need to change everything, intake, headers, mounts, hood, etc. to make it work. If you are staying under 500 rwhp, then build a 347 with good heads and intake and it'll make more power than a stock stroke Windsor. If you aren't as budget restricted as you seem, then a Windsor makes more power as a stroker in the long run and hold up really well as they were truck engines for a reason.

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post #11 of 12 Old February 5th, 2016, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4eyedfoxdriver View Post
What do you figure your rough overall budget to be? Do you have a stock or aftermarket hood?
Stock hood. Would like an aftermarket cowl induction. Honestly I hadn't even thought of a budget. I was just gonna buy the parts as I had cash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nxcoupe View Post
Buy engine from an engine builder, not a parts hocker. Look at DSS or one of the latest internet sensation shops. I had not heard that Probe was closing, I'm going to email Mark right now and ask him. I use DSS custom pistons and DSS shelf pistons along with Probe and CP for my engine builds. Lots of brands, none are the 'best', each has it's own merits and shortcomings.
If you decide on a holley system, get with me, I sell a lot of them. Windsor is not a 'budget' build. You will need to change everything, intake, headers, mounts, hood, etc. to make it work. If you are staying under 500 rwhp, then build a 347 with good heads and intake and it'll make more power than a stock stroke Windsor. If you aren't as budget restricted as you seem, then a Windsor makes more power as a stroker in the long run and hold up really well as they were truck engines for a reason.
Even if I build the 302 I was still gonna do all new heads, headers, cam, intake etc. I plan on the car being parked for a few years

2015 F150 - daily
2015 Focus ST - sold
1986 Mustang Saleen clone - new to me
2013 Mustang GT - sold
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post #12 of 12 Old February 8th, 2016, 06:21 PM
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I vote for a Windsor build. If I could do it again, that's the route I would've gone.

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