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post #21 of 116 Old September 8th, 2014, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by WrenchThrower View Post
Just put it in the marque
There you go, resolves it's self.
Flat black it and call it the grand marque de sade.
I'm more counting on the fat profit from the Grand Marquis to fund all the fun stuff.

Plus people have done lots with Marauders, Crown Vics, and Foxes. Something unsuspecting like a Town Car, Fairmont or Capri is much more fun.

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Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
I have a 2002 Crown Vic with 34,400 miles on it for sale here in the classifieds. My grandma's car from Texas, had 15,000 miles it's first 9 years, 19,000 by me in the last 3. Has a set of the 17" Crown Victoria Sport wheels with no road rash and 75% tread left, along with a set of the stock wheels with great snow tires, also with 75% tread left (each set gets about 3,000 miles a year with me). Full leather interior, auto air, auto dimming mirror, Panasonic Bluetooth head unit, Kenwood 3 way speakers in all four corners, no rips, tears, or cracks. Asking $5000, but I'm negotiable. Would give you an extra PI headed engine to play with. I also have a cat back dual exhaust that goes with the car.
Eh, bit pricier than I'd like and I'd definitely prefer something a little more elusive.

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Originally Posted by BA Mustang View Post
Pushrod engines are really easy to build. I didn't even use a guide when I built the one for my 67. I just had a general idea of what to do and where stuff went.

I've considered building a modular, but haven't gotten the courage to try it yet.
If you're building a regular old modular, I would actually say it's easier than an old pushrod. Intake manifold and valvetrain is actually easier. Timing chain is the same as an old pushrod, but longer and twice.

If I was building a run of the mill modular, I could do this shit in my sleep.

When it's a couple grand worth of fancy forged parts, and you're planning on throwing tons of boost at it, you sweat a lot more. As someone else mentioned in another modular build thread; no beer in the garage while putting it together. Yeah. It's that serious. On top of that I'm being extremely careful. Absolutely everything is being cleaned, inspected, and double checked. I refer to the manuals constantly. I'm even keeping a log of what is done and when. No room for error.

That said, biggest problem I ran into today is I do not have a 12 point 10mm socket.

But all the bearings are in, lubed up (nitrile gloves are a godsend for this kind of crap), studs lubed, caps seated, nuts on and fully engaged. Just need the right socket.

Then I get the joy of checking endplay once it's all secured.

More pictures to come once I'm through the torque sequence.
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post #22 of 116 Old September 8th, 2014, 11:58 PM
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Sub'd. Looking real good too, I really enjoyed putting my engine together.
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post #23 of 116 Old September 9th, 2014, 07:26 AM
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That said, biggest problem I ran into today is I do not have a 12 point 10mm socket.
I have one of those, you can come get it. But you might spend more in gas getting it than driving to the store and buying one.

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post #24 of 116 Old September 9th, 2014, 07:43 AM
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post #25 of 116 Old September 9th, 2014, 10:44 AM
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so when you get ready to install your pistons, what are you gapping your rings too? Just wondering. Also, dont you work on diesels for a living? I mean shouldnt you technically be anal about building one of those? The series 60 detroit im building in class right now has thrown us for a few loops with tolerances already. But until then, i'm liking what i'm seeing.


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You only got one nom nom. One nom or two nom nom. Only one nom.
GO GO POWER RANGER!
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post #26 of 116 Old September 9th, 2014, 01:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Lariat View Post
so when you get ready to install your pistons, what are you gapping your rings too? Just wondering. Also, dont you work on diesels for a living? I mean shouldnt you technically be anal about building one of those? The series 60 detroit im building in class right now has thrown us for a few loops with tolerances already. But until then, i'm liking what i'm seeing.
I had BES gap the rings for me since I was ordering them from them anyway, and the cost of a decent filer was about what it cost to get them gapped. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but I believe they gapped it slightly tighter than the manufacturer recommended bore x 0.0007 spec. This was based on their expertise with aluminum modular, so I trusted them.

Technically I don't work on diesels, but their very close relative gassers. Diesels really aren't that different aside from the fact things like head bolts and main bolts are going to be torqued to insane numbers. Oh, and depending on your vintage diesel you get either-
a.) PITA of timing an injection pump
or
b.) hoping like hell you tightened those fuel lines enough so the insane pressure doesn't take a finger off.

And somehow through some miracle I managed to find the elusive sockets. It took checking at about 10 stores, finding one at a Fastenal and being able to order another from CARQUEST to get what I need. At least everything should be torque in place this evening.
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post #27 of 116 Old September 9th, 2014, 03:41 PM
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Understood, and thank god we don't have a pump. Ours uses cam fired injectors.


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You only got one nom nom. One nom or two nom nom. Only one nom.
GO GO POWER RANGER!
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post #28 of 116 Old September 9th, 2014, 05:33 PM
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Great thread! Subscribed for a possible future build... Thanks for including us all.
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post #29 of 116 Old September 9th, 2014, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
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Back to the important stuff.

Put in the upper bearings (with the groove/window) and lubed the snot out of them. Thrust washer gets put in, oil groove facing out.


Crank goes in, main caps get cleaned, and again slathered in assembly lube. Tap them down. Cover the studs and washers in moly lube for accurate torquing, and spin the nuts on. Some studs may need to be backed off to ensure 100% thread engagement. I backed out a few so that all have at least half a thread or so protruding from the top.

Then comes the fun part. Torquing everything to spec. Of course lucky me had to run to 2 different stores to get the correct 12pt 10mm and 12mm deep well sockets. Always fun.

For the main studs, ARP says 25ft-lb on the outers, 60ft-lb on the inners in 3 equal steps. Then it's 45 up to 90 in-lb on the jackscrews, and 90 up to 170 in-lb on the side bolts (reuseable 98 Cobra ones.)

So let's do the math. There's 5 mains, each with four main studs that take 3 steps., two jack screws, and two side bolts that take two steps. What does that add up to? 100. Now add in the fact everything was triple checked. That's 400.

Four hundred "CLICK CLICK"s.

CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK

You get the idea.

With all that done I checked the end play. 0.006, which is about right.

I confirmed the crank turns easily. I'll have to do some deburring to get the crank bolt in to determine the torque it takes to spin it, but it turns about as easily as you'd expect for a heavy forged crank coated in assembly lube.

Then it's time to get ready for the next step. Here's the teaser;


BES balanced everything for me, which let's face it, I am NOT equipped to balance a crank.
Pistons are Manley platinum series, -11cc dish, 0.020 over.
Rods are Manley 4340 H-beams
Rod bolts are ARP 2000s.
Rings are totalseal stainless, gapped a little tighter than manufacturer spec based on input from BES.

Everything is more or less together ready to get installed in the block. Whenever I get around to it that is.

Also might go look at a car to put it in this weekend. It'll be a long drive but I think it'll be worth it. If it pans out that is.
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post #30 of 116 Old September 17th, 2014, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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Little bit of progress. Had the piston/rod/ring assembly together. Re-clocked the rings according to Manley instructions. Installed Clevite H-series bearings. I found out the H-series have a weird oxide coating I haven't seen before.

I double checked that the rings were clocked right, the chamfer on the bearings faced the crank, the rod caps are matched, and the arrow on the pistons faced front. Then lube up those bearings again.

With that done comes the fun part; putting it in the block. Clean the bores, oil the bores, piston compressor, and piston itself. Put the piston compressor on with a little bit of the skirt showing, and tighten it down. Slide the skirt into the bore, and lightly tap it home.

Here's where it gets to be a pain in the dick. If you get any resistance, STOP. You don't want to fuck up a ring. It took me six goddamn tries to get it. The first five times it would slide easily then bind up. The oil rings hung up on the block. Ugh. Loosen the compressor, put it on again, try again. On the sixth try, with lots of concentration it finally worked. It slid in nice and smooth.



Once it's in the bore, make sure the caps are matched up, and bolt it in.

Hooray. One down, seven to go.
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post #31 of 116 Old September 17th, 2014, 11:57 PM
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With mine, I tightened the ring compressor really well to the point it would be able to line up with the bore well. Lightly tap'd it in and 7 out of 8 went in first try, one of the pistons took me two. Don't be afraid to make that compressor tight. Looking good though!
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post #32 of 116 Old September 18th, 2014, 12:18 AM
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^ agreed, with the pistons on the engine i rebuilt, i had to tighten the shit out of the ring compressor. Dont worry, you wont break the piston.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc View Post
You only got one nom nom. One nom or two nom nom. Only one nom.
GO GO POWER RANGER!
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post #33 of 116 Old September 18th, 2014, 05:54 AM
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Going to keep an eye on this thread, as I am going to be doing nearly the same damn thing

People crushed by law, have no hopes but from power. If laws are their enemies, they will be enemies to laws; and those who have much to hope and nothing to lose, will always be dangerous. Edmund Burke
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post #34 of 116 Old September 18th, 2014, 08:47 AM
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Last engine I built I had to run a couple hose clamps around my cheapo P-ring compressor towards the bottom to slide mine in. My pistons where like 4.25 and the compressor was a hair small for it. I've heard those tapered sleeves work pretty good.


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post #35 of 116 Old September 18th, 2014, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WrenchThrower View Post
Last engine I built I had to run a couple hose clamps around my cheapo P-ring compressor towards the bottom to slide mine in. My pistons where like 4.25 and the compressor was a hair small for it. I've heard those tapered sleeves work pretty good.
Yeah I think the combination of cheapo compressor and aggressive ringpack is my issue.

I've used ones before that were just some reinforced silicone, and they were enough for your typical thin factory ringpack to slide right in first time. These are some pretty thick, tough rings.

...and the fact the compressor is a cheapass $10 parts store one probably doesn't help.
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post #36 of 116 Old September 18th, 2014, 11:23 AM
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Looks like a fun build. I built my short block a couple of years ago and had a few issues, mostly wrong parts being shipped (bearings and ARP studs for the 2v block and not the aluminum block I was using). I had a cheap ring compressor set I got on ebay that worked like a champ.
Good luck going forward, the first startup is gratifying and terrifying!
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post #37 of 116 Old September 19th, 2014, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by WickedSnake00 View Post
Yeah I think the combination of cheapo compressor and aggressive ringpack is my issue.

I've used ones before that were just some reinforced silicone, and they were enough for your typical thin factory ringpack to slide right in first time. These are some pretty thick, tough rings.

...and the fact the compressor is a cheapass $10 parts store one probably doesn't help.
You need the ones like we use at work. They look like a medieval torture device.


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post #38 of 116 Old September 19th, 2014, 11:08 AM
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I have used many compressors, they all work pretty much the same. the one I have used for many years and many engines is one that looks more like a filter wrench. The main key(along with being tight on piston) is to keep the compressor flat and tight on deck surface. tap down on compressor before rings go into block and hold it down tight so the ring won't push out side

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post #39 of 116 Old September 22nd, 2014, 10:07 PM Thread Starter
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Update. Got the remaining 7 in the bore and everything torqued down.





I don't remember installing pistons taking this much damned time before.

Of course it doesn't help I was exceedingly meticulous with this one. Everything got inspected and checked twice, cleaned repeatedly, and inspected again.

Lots more to go.

Major items on the bottom end include:
Billet geared oil pump installation
Tap and plug oil rifle
Drill and tap for the 8mm dowel pin upgrade

And that's not even touching the fun that is installing the heads, valvetrain, and having to re-degree the cams. :

At least on the bright side I only need to degree each bank once, since the intake to exhaust relation is still locked down.
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post #40 of 116 Old September 23rd, 2014, 01:25 AM
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where do the pushrods go

---------- Post added at 11:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 PM ----------

oh i see they go down in the water jacket.


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