new motor will not turn by hand. - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #1 of 33 Old April 17th, 2016, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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new motor will not turn by hand.

Hey guys, so i had my longblock assembled by a reputable local shop and i cannot get it to turn by hand. It will not budge (when it was just a short block i was able to). Would this be PTV ? I feel Like if it was it would still be able to spin it some until it hits the valve

The only thing I have done is Add the oil pan, timing cover, and crank pulley.

Any input on what i can look at to pin point the problem would be appreciated
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post #2 of 33 Old April 17th, 2016, 11:55 PM
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Have you out your plugs in yet?
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post #3 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 12:02 AM
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Make sure your not trying to turn it with the plugs in or you will run into all the compresion hiding in those cylinders.


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post #4 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
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I do not have the plugs in yet. Im not too sure what it could be. I also have my intake manifold and water pump on but i do not see how that would affect anything ? I would hate to bring my motor back to the shop if its error on my end that i can correct on my own lol

---------- Post added at 10:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:40 PM ----------

But in theory if it was ptv would i be able to turn the pulley until a piston hits a valve correct?
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post #5 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 12:48 AM
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What cams do you have?
How were you able to turn it when it was a short block when you got it from the machine shop as as a long block.

What do you mean by "long block" and "short block".

Is the engine installed?
Is the trany connected?
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post #6 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 01:12 AM Thread Starter
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I first had a 2003 cobra shortblock gone through (just the block and rotating assembly) and then at a later date I had a set of patriot ported heads and a set of Hi Tech Stage 2 blower cams Specs: 234/230 duration, 112 lobe sep, .550/.500 lift

motor is on an engine stand
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post #7 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 01:15 AM
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Is the flywheel installed, can that be contacting some part of the stand. Happened to me.
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post #8 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 01:20 AM Thread Starter
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flywheel is not on yet, I am wondering if i somehow pushed the crank pulley on too far? Not sure if that is even possible?
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post #9 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 01:27 AM
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Yes, this is possible. The bottom timing gear and the cam sensor reluctor wheel on the crank is different between the Romeo and Windsor engines. If those get mixed around you can drive the harmonic balancer in too far.
Is the harmonic balancer right up against the timing cover.
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post #10 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 08:52 AM
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With all the friction of the rotating assembly and the valve springs, without a big cheater bar it'll be prettt difficult to turn over by hand.
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post #11 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 09:01 AM
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For the record, without the plugs in you should be able to turn over the assembled longblock with a 12" ratchet or so. It's not that hard. Hell you can turn it over even with the plugs in, you just feel the compression.

Try reversing directions. If it is PTV contact it will turn to a point then stop. You should be able to go back the other way. I'm willing to bet that is probably your issue. If the shop messed up the timing that bad I probably would not go back to them.
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What does your dyno sheet trap?
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post #12 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 09:56 AM
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Who assembled it?
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post #13 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 10:55 AM
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I agree with flyboy, it's no big deal to turn a fully assembled engine, plugs and all with a regular ratchet. The issue is somewhere else. If it's piston valve contact, the valves maybe bent already. I'm going through this right now with my engine.

Stage 2 cams shouldn't cause PTV contact. Which means the timing is way off. If it's not something else that is.
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post #14 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 01:47 PM
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Did the shortblock spin by hand?

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post #15 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 02:05 PM
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I was able to hand crank my 2v engine with plugs in and it was 11:1 compression. If you could turn it over as a short block but not as a long block you have an issue.



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post #16 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Short block spun just fine didn't even need a cheater bar, I cant even turn it in the opposite direction, i was able to break the crank pulley bolt loose... I don't want to give the shops name out yet and drag them through the mud until I give him a chance to look at it again. For all i know i may have done something when added the timing cover and oil pan.

For you guys that ran a Innovators west Pulley did you guys have to do any clearanceing to the timing cover ? The pulley is not all the way on the timing cover. I think im going to take off my timing cover and oil pan and then see if somehow that was causing my problems.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------

another question I have, when you are timeing up the cams do you have to spin the motor at all?
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post #17 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor123 View Post
Short block spun just fine didn't even need a cheater bar, I cant even turn it in the opposite direction, i was able to break the crank pulley bolt loose... I don't want to give the shops name out yet and drag them through the mud until I give him a chance to look at it again. For all i know i may have done something when added the timing cover and oil pan.

For you guys that ran a Innovators west Pulley did you guys have to do any clearanceing to the timing cover ? The pulley is not all the way on the timing cover. I think im going to take off my timing cover and oil pan and then see if somehow that was causing my problems.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------

another question I have, when you are timeing up the cams do you have to spin the motor at all?
So you got the short block and installed the heads and after the heads, it won't turn?


Did you line up the timing marks on the gears with the marks on the chains? If not and they are way off, you may already have bent valves.

It would be best to remove the timing cover and have a look.

Was the short block at TDC before you put on the heads?

Edit: I think there's some confusion here about "short block", "long block". To clarify, did you put on the heads?
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post #18 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor123 View Post
Short block spun just fine didn't even need a cheater bar, I cant even turn it in the opposite direction, i was able to break the crank pulley bolt loose... I don't want to give the shops name out yet and drag them through the mud until I give him a chance to look at it again. For all i know i may have done something when added the timing cover and oil pan.

For you guys that ran a Innovators west Pulley did you guys have to do any clearanceing to the timing cover ? The pulley is not all the way on the timing cover. I think im going to take off my timing cover and oil pan and then see if somehow that was causing my problems.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------

another question I have, when you are timeing up the cams do you have to spin the motor at all?
You could've installed the exciter ring on backwards? Might be binding with the timing chains. Best thing would be to take the timing chain cover off, or remove your followers and turning the motor again.
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post #19 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by condor123 View Post

For you guys that ran a Innovators west Pulley did you guys have to do any clearanceing to the timing cover ? The pulley is not all the way on the timing cover. I think im going to take off my timing cover and oil pan and then see if somehow that was causing my problems.

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 PM ----------

another question I have, when you are timeing up the cams do you have to spin the motor at all?
Yes, you have to clearance the crank position sensor boss on the front of the timing cover with an IW 10% OD balancer.


What does your dyno sheet trap?
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post #20 of 33 Old April 18th, 2016, 03:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyboy1294 View Post
Yes, you have to clearance the crank position sensor boss on the front of the timing cover with an IW 10% OD balancer.
well i think im a dumb fuck and may have found my problem. I just put the pulley on. Imthinking the pulley may be stuck. Can i just take a file to it, or what is the "best way" to do it.

Ill check to make sure i did not put the exciter wheel on backwards as well.

Also I did not do any of the engine work I paid a shop to do the assembly of the motor and he took pictures for me of the cam timing process. Ill have to find the invoice later but he said he had to advance timing 4* not 100% sure if that is okay.
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