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post #21 of 38 Old May 20th, 2016, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 03newbieGT View Post
I like ALL opinions from both sides. I have a certain amount that I wanted to spend so I'm trying to stay in that range as much as possible! Just picked it up last week and tinkered with it a little.

K&N air intake
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Chin spoiler and tint all around...NEXT UP and after giving it some thought and reading different forums.

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Ford racing 3.73 GEARS

Open to suggestions on manufactures!! Thanks for taking the time and giving me advice and some guidance.
In my opinion, you should move gears to the top of the list. Then full length sub frame connectors. After which, the rest of the things in your list.

Don't forget good tires and brakes. Enjoy!

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post #22 of 38 Old May 20th, 2016, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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In my opinion, you should move gears to the top of the list. Then full length sub frame connectors. After which, the rest of the things in your list.

Don't forget good tires and brakes. Enjoy!
ALL of that list is already in my basket on AM to be ordered!! Pardon my inexperience BUT what does the frame connectors do for the car??
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post #23 of 38 Old May 20th, 2016, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Eagle2000GT View Post
The biggest restriction to air flow is the plenum not the TB. If you can afford to replace only one then replace the plenum. Here are the results of Accufab testing.





He's talking about the butterfly valve inside the throttle body. It controls the amount of air flowing into the motor. If it shuts too tight it will vacuum lock. That is when the engine's vacuum holds it closed causing the it to stick when accelerating from idle. If the butterfly valve shuts too tight it also cuts off the by-pass air that is needed for the IAC to work properly. This results in the engine surging and sometimes dying when slowing down and turning. On my car it did both.

The TB butterfly valve sometimes need to be adjusted even on stock TB because of wear on the stop screw. The stop screw controls the amount of by-pass air. It does not control the idle. From the driver's side fender turn the stop screw clockwise about 1/16 of a turn. If that doesn't fix the sticking or surging then do it again. If you actually do change the idle then you have gone too far. Experimenting on my car it too more than a full turn to affect the idle.

The arrow in the picture below shows the TB stop screw. Aftermarket TBs have a screw driver slot, stock TBs do not so you need to use locking pliers to turn it.



CliffyK explains air flow and TB adjustments in more detail on his PaladinMicro site:
PaladinMicro
Thanks Eagle. I have re adjusted mine. I set it so that there was 0.010" of an inch away from the throttle and the adjustment screw. Then turned it one full turn.

I've always played with it just to experiment and nothing changes.

I've been through 3 IAC's, and I'm using a brand new motorcraft one currently and I'm still having trouble with keeping it at idle. I've checked for vacuum leaks, I've checked the IAC, 7 ohms of resistance, and the harness is getting 12V with the key on.

Here are some quick data logs. First picture was on its own, last two are from the same log. Looks like the car literally shuts off when I'm at an idle.

Any ideas on whats going on? I can't get my blower on till I get this figured out.

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post #24 of 38 Old May 20th, 2016, 11:46 PM
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ALL of that list is already in my basket on AM to be ordered!! Pardon my inexperience BUT what does the frame connectors do for the car??
Our cars' body flexes real bad. FLSFCs stiffens up the chassis, making the car more solid and lets the suspension do their job better.

Why should subframe connectors be the first upgrade to my Mustang?
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post #25 of 38 Old May 21st, 2016, 04:15 AM Thread Starter
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Our cars' body flexes real bad. FLSFCs stiffens up the chassis, making the car more solid and lets the suspension do their job better.

Why should subframe connectors be the first upgrade to my Mustang?
Added to my list!!
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post #26 of 38 Old May 21st, 2016, 08:38 AM
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Thanks Eagle. I have re adjusted mine. I set it so that there was 0.010" of an inch away from the throttle and the adjustment screw. Then turned it one full turn.

I've always played with it just to experiment and nothing changes.

I've been through 3 IAC's, and I'm using a brand new motorcraft one currently and I'm still having trouble with keeping it at idle. I've checked for vacuum leaks, I've checked the IAC, 7 ohms of resistance, and the harness is getting 12V with the key on.

Here are some quick data logs. First picture was on its own, last two are from the same log. Looks like the car literally shuts off when I'm at an idle.

Any ideas on whats going on? I can't get my blower on till I get this figured out.

Sorry, I can't read data logs. I'm more of a shade tree mechanic. If I had done all of that I would then intentionalyl open the stop screw enough to change the idle taking the IAC totally out of the picture. If it still surges at idle then its not related to the IAC. If it stops then I would back it off until it started again then turn the screw 1/16" clockwise to stop it.

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post #27 of 38 Old May 21st, 2016, 10:51 AM
Still slow.
 
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Originally Posted by Eagle2000GT View Post
Sorry, I can't read data logs. I'm more of a shade tree mechanic. If I had done all of that I would then intentionalyl open the stop screw enough to change the idle taking the IAC totally out of the picture. If it still surges at idle then its not related to the IAC. If it stops then I would back it off until it started again then turn the screw 1/16" clockwise to stop it.
I've actually had the IAC unplugged and opened the throttle body up with the screw once the engine was warm and it ran amazing. So I guess I just had back luck and got a third bad IAC in a row?
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post #28 of 38 Old May 21st, 2016, 08:08 PM
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I've actually had the IAC unplugged and opened the throttle body up with the screw once the engine was warm and it ran amazing. So I guess I just had back luck and got a third bad IAC in a row?
Or else you are adjusting the butterfly valve too tight. Cliff was an engineer. He believed in precise measurements. I'm a shade tree mechanic. I believe in what works.

P.S. I had a truck break down out of town. I took it to a dealership. They changed a lot of thing and charged me over $1,000 but didn't fix it. Their computer couldn't tell them what was wrong. My hometown mechanic fixed it in a day for a couple of hundred. He could trouble shoot without computers.

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post #29 of 38 Old May 23rd, 2016, 09:57 AM
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How does it not make it faster? Gears are a torque multiplier. From a dig a 4.10 car will outrun a 3.27 car but the 4.10 car will not be able to reach the same top speed as the 3.27 car. Its a tradeoff. Youll run through the gears quicker with the 4.10s, putting the power to the ground faster. Plus you cant compare a coyote to a 2v there are too many variables to consider.

If you take 2 identical mustangs with the same mods, same driver, same everything but different gears, one will win top end the other will win the 60 ft. Its not cut and dry.
I'll just leave this link here, where I thoroughly explain how gears work, and why they don't make a car faster except [maybe] in 1st gear. If there's still any questions, I'll be happy to clarify.

https://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...-trans-am.html

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post #30 of 38 Old May 23rd, 2016, 09:59 AM
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If gears don't make a car faster then why switch? ?? Exactly because they do make you faster Lol


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post #31 of 38 Old May 23rd, 2016, 10:04 AM
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If gears don't make a car faster then why switch? ?? Exactly because they do make you faster Lol
Did you read what I said? Because I don't think you read what I said.

I laid it out clearly in that other thread. With the same 60', gears DO NOT make you faster. PERIOD.

People switch because they're ignorant and don't know any better.

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post #32 of 38 Old May 23rd, 2016, 10:08 AM
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Yes I read it and I'm not convinced yet.


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post #33 of 38 Old May 23rd, 2016, 10:10 AM
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My real world experience with gears is with 3.27, the fastest I could manage was 14.1. I put 4.10s in, same tires, same everything and could manage 13.7. In my case, gears made me quicker in the 1/4 mile. I do not think the gears gained me .4 but probably a solid .2-.3 with the other gains being driver mod. I'm not the best drag racer, in general, but I am pretty good and consistent with my car specifically.

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post #34 of 38 Old May 23rd, 2016, 10:40 AM
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Yes I read it and I'm not convinced yet.
Which part are you not convinced of yet?

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My real world experience with gears is with 3.27, the fastest I could manage was 14.1. I put 4.10s in, same tires, same everything and could manage 13.7. In my case, gears made me quicker in the 1/4 mile. I do not think the gears gained me .4 but probably a solid .2-.3 with the other gains being driver mod. I'm not the best drag racer, in general, but I am pretty good and consistent with my car specifically.
Yup, ET gains are VERY possible with a steeper gear, with reasons that I clearly laid out in that other thread. The main variable is traction. As long as you can still hook up all that extra torque in 1st gear and cut a better 60', they'll be faster. But that's something that most people / cars can't do, especially once you start talking a car that's actually making some power.

What were the trap speeds on those runs?

I have a great story relating to gears that I just remembered. Way back in the day, when my car was stock (and slooooow), my brother and I used to go to the drag strip almost every weekend. He had a 4x4 4.0 Ford Ranger. Automatic. The truck had 4.10s in it with 32" tires, which would be the almost exact equivalent of 3.27s in our cars with 25.68" tall tires. In 4x4 high range, he ran 11.0s-11.1s about as consistently as you could ask of at about 67 mph (1/8 mile obviously).

Then he got a brilliant idea: try it in 4x4 low range. Those trucks have a 2.48:1 low range, so he would have the equivalent of a 8.11 gear in our cars. That's some pretty serious short gearing! Anyways, he knocked a full second off of his 1/8 mile ET! Was running 10.0s-10.1s. That was pretty much entirely because he went from cutting 2.40 60's to 1.80 60's. And that half second+ off of the 60' was because he was fully able to take advantage of all the extra torque that low range was offering him via being able to hook up in 4 wheel drive. I think it's clear that a 2-valve with 8.11 rear gears would have a bit of a hard time hooking up.

But here's the really interesting part: his trap speed was still the exact same 67 mph. Didn't change one bit. I go over this in detail in the other thread I linked, but the reason why is because he was still sweeping the exact same horsepower band of the engine as he was in high range. He just swept it more frequently in low range (all 5 gears in low, versus only like 2 1/2 in high range). Steeper gears (generally speaking) don't increase the average horsepower that the engine is outputting, and therefore don't make it any faster except at the very beginning of a race.

Also, here's a video of one of his runs like that. We had a lot of fun destroying big V8 half-ton trucks, which were really getting pissed about it. LoL!


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post #35 of 38 Old May 23rd, 2016, 10:47 AM
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Which part are you not convinced of yet?



Yup, ET gains are VERY possible with a steeper gear, with reasons that I clearly laid out in that other thread. The main variable is traction. As long as you can still hook up all that extra torque in 1st gear and cut a better 60', they'll be faster. But that's something that most people / cars can't do, especially once you start talking a car that's actually making some power.

What were the trap speeds on those runs?

[/url]
The tires I had were stock size 245/45-17 Primwell PZ900s...basically a bolt on, full weight convertible. Traps were around 96-97 with 3.27s and 99 everytime with 4.10s.

My setup is nothing unique and pretty standard for most people who are asking gear questions which is why I also advocate 4.10s (especially with a manual car). For our cars and basically stock power and even all-season tires, steeper gears will almost always mean a faster car.

Your logic looks good on paper and is probably applicable to higher horsepower cars with traction issues, but for 95% of the New Edge/SN95s running around, ditching the 3.27s and going to 3.73/4.10 almost always means a faster car.

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post #36 of 38 Old May 23rd, 2016, 11:47 AM
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Y2k02 switched to 373 and lost 60' time which means swapping gears made him slower because it was the wrong gear. So switching to the right gear will make him faster. If you cross the 1/4 mile marker at 6k RPM vs 7K with the right gear you will be going faster just like GB packer mentioned. So if you can get higher into your powER band and RPM you will be faster because the gear helped you get there.


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post #37 of 38 Old May 23rd, 2016, 12:29 PM
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The thread you posted is a specific case, like pate said if your gears are matched to your powerband then you will go faster. I even said that earlier.

And youre contradicting yourself by saying you will gain nothing yet later you said if you can get the added torque to the ground in 1st you will gain something, which is what I said earlier. A gain is a gain and in drag racing, where 1st gear is crucial, gears will help alot. If you gain torque in 1st gear you cut your et. Since youre pretty much going to be in wot at the track, you cannot make up the difference that the first gear gives you with lower gears. Think of it this way, two guys drag identical bolt on 2v's, one has 3.27s the other 4.10s, since the 4.10 guy has more torque in 1st gear he will win the race because he got more torque to the ground. Like I said the 4.10 guy has more torque in 1st so he gets off the line quicker, and can accelerate quicker, but that advantage doesnt necessarily carry over the other gears.

Higher gears allow the car to rev quicker, get into the powerband quicker to get off the line quicker which helps you get down the track quicker.

And you asked about trap speed, that is determined by horsepower, so thats why it didnt change.

Its not cut and dry but for the most part with stock 2v's, which is the op has, gears will have a big effect.

YOU NEED TO MATCH YOUR GEARS TO YOUR POWERBAND/SETUP
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post #38 of 38 Old May 23rd, 2016, 01:02 PM
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Oh the my 4.10 gears felt like it got my ass going quickly and the car felt faster but it's all a placebo effect. I should of got an intake spacer instead!

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