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post #61 of 131 Old September 14th, 2016, 02:02 AM
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if it makes you feel any better i also blew a head gasket and got the heads bolted up and broke the tensioner guide bolt on the head fml 1 hour to go to store buy stud extractor only to find out my dads drill only goes forward lol got it out some how tho

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post #62 of 131 Old September 14th, 2016, 08:08 AM
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I'll see about getting a hone and some rings. What hone do you suggest? Also I tried acetone, didn't work to great. I was thinking about trying some muriatic acid but I know it can cause more rust if I don't use it right.
Yikes. Ok, take a deep breath. I think you're in a little over your head here.

With that amount of rust and crap on the cylinder walls, there's no way you're going to just clean it up and run it, not without a ton of blowby. If you do, your cylinder finish is going to be all off, who knows what kind of shape the rings will be in, and they won't seal well, meaning you'll have lower compression, lower power, and burn lots of oil.

Now to do things right, you need to remove the rods and pistons and clean up the bores, or just flat out throw in a new engine. Considering the unknown status of your cylinder heads, I think the most cost effective approach is going to be a junkyard engine. You're in the $150-300 neighborhood then. To do things right on this engine you're looking at that or more just in machine shop work.

If you're absolutely broke as fuck and have more time than money, your other option is a hone and go. Not guaranteed to be perfect, but it would probably work. Get a hone from the parts store ($40-100), hone the crap out of all the cylinders, and put new rings on all the pistons ($27-65 on rock auto.) That's got about a 75% chance of working.

But whatever you choose, dumping acid and trying to clean up the bore with rings isn't going to work. It's just going to be throwing time and money down the drain.
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post #63 of 131 Old September 14th, 2016, 08:17 AM
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Please tell me you didn't use anything whatsoever on the cylinder walls other then chemicals? if you did chances are you destroyed your ring sealing surface.


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post #64 of 131 Old September 14th, 2016, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Yikes. Ok, take a deep breath. I think you're in a little over your head here.

With that amount of rust and crap on the cylinder walls, there's no way you're going to just clean it up and run it, not without a ton of blowby. If you do, your cylinder finish is going to be all off, who knows what kind of shape the rings will be in, and they won't seal well, meaning you'll have lower compression, lower power, and burn lots of oil.

Now to do things right, you need to remove the rods and pistons and clean up the bores, or just flat out throw in a new engine. Considering the unknown status of your cylinder heads, I think the most cost effective approach is going to be a junkyard engine. You're in the $150-300 neighborhood then. To do things right on this engine you're looking at that or more just in machine shop work.

If you're absolutely broke as fuck and have more time than money, your other option is a hone and go. Not guaranteed to be perfect, but it would probably work. Get a hone from the parts store ($40-100), hone the crap out of all the cylinders, and put new rings on all the pistons ($27-65 on rock auto.) That's got about a 75% chance of working.

But whatever you choose, dumping acid and trying to clean up the bore with rings isn't going to work. It's just going to be throwing time and money down the drain.
Well I probably could afford to do everything right, but i'm trying to save what little money I have for other things and projects. I would like to at least try to get this engine back to decent working condition. I was thinking of using muriatic acid cause someone suggested I use it to get rust out of an old motorcycle gas tank, and it seemed to work pretty well. I have it lying around too. I'm thinking I'm just going to hone it now, cause your completely right. It wont take much at all at this point to just pull it out and do it. But what grit would you suggest for the hone? I'll look around for an engine for cheap, but If I can't find something soon i'll just hone it, get new rings and hope for the best.

---------- Post added at 01:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 AM ----------

Quote:
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if it makes you feel any better i also blew a head gasket and got the heads bolted up and broke the tensioner guide bolt on the head fml 1 hour to go to store buy stud extractor only to find out my dads drill only goes forward lol got it out some how tho
That does make me feel a bit better, lol.

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Please tell me you didn't use anything whatsoever on the cylinder walls other then chemicals? if you did chances are you destroyed your ring sealing surface.
Nothing but chemicals, the rough side of a sponge, and about a quarter revolution worth of ring cleaning.

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post #65 of 131 Old September 15th, 2016, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1C2 View Post
Well I probably could afford to do everything right, but i'm trying to save what little money I have for other things and projects. I would like to at least try to get this engine back to decent working condition. I was thinking of using muriatic acid cause someone suggested I use it to get rust out of an old motorcycle gas tank, and it seemed to work pretty well. I have it lying around too. I'm thinking I'm just going to hone it now, cause your completely right. It wont take much at all at this point to just pull it out and do it. But what grit would you suggest for the hone? I'll look around for an engine for cheap, but If I can't find something soon i'll just hone it, get new rings and hope for the best.
Muriatic acid is great for removing rust from gas tanks, but cylinder bores are a completely different matter. They're all about getting a uniform surface to seal with the rings. If you removed the rust you'd still have pitting which wouldn't seal well.

As for what grit you're going to need something fairly coarse to clean up the rust, not just your average glazebreaker. As for the final hone that will depend on the ring specification.
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post #66 of 131 Old September 21st, 2016, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, I've saved up about $100 to get a hone and some rings. I was looking at these rings: Ford 4 6 5 4 SOHC DOHC Perfect Circle Mahle Moly Piston Ring Set 1991 2010 Std | eBay

As for a hone, i'm not sure what bore to get. I was thinking a flex hone with like 180 grit seems fine? And then a second, finer grit hone. Not sure how fine though.

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post #67 of 131 Old September 21st, 2016, 09:51 PM
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From this article:
High Performance Piston Rings and Cylinder Finishes - Engine Builder Magazine

Quote:
For moly faced rings in a street performance, drag or circle track motor, hone with a conventional #280 grit silicon carbide vitrified abrasive, then finish by briefly honing to final size with a #400 grit vitrified stone or #600 grit diamond stone (or higher), plateau honing tool, cork stones or a brush.

For stock and street performance engines with moly rings, an average surface finish of 15 to 20 Ra is typically recommended. For higher classes of racing, you can go a little smoother, provided you don’t glaze the cylinders.

For moly or nitrided rings in a performance motor, hone with #320 or #400 vitrified stones, and finish with #600 stones, cork stones, a plateau honing tool or brush.
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post #68 of 131 Old September 21st, 2016, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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Wow this seems much more complicated than honing my dirtbike haha. I'll read the whole thing tomorrow, and probably order everything then.

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post #69 of 131 Old September 22nd, 2016, 06:08 AM
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Id say you need pistons,borejob amd hone. I doubt honing is gonna fix what you have

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post #70 of 131 Old September 27th, 2016, 06:06 PM Thread Starter
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Welp, the other day the planets seemed to have aligned and I actually got everything done with the help of a few friends. Honed and new rings. I think my mustang will be fine now. There are no scores that can catch my fingernail and everything looked fine, which is all a huge relief. Now I'm getting off all the old head gasket to put the heads back on. I have a few questions now though. First, is timing. On my dirtbike that had dohc it was really simple. I just brought it to tdc and lined of some notches on the cams before putting the chain back on. So how do I do it on this? Should I just go pick up a Chilton or just ask all of you what the specs for the head bolts and stuff are haha.

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post #71 of 131 Old September 27th, 2016, 09:02 PM
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Use the dot to dot method. See the attached picture:


Set your gears as shown. Take your chains, mark the end links (if they're not already) and align them with the end links on the dots.

NOTE: Whatever you do, put both chains on at the same time. DO NOT ROTATE THE ENGINE WITH ONE CHAIN ON. Then you end up with one cam 180 deg out of phase, and well, that's bad.
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post #72 of 131 Old September 29th, 2016, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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Alright had to wait for a friend to help me get the cylinder heads on. And the freaking head bolts on. I've looked around for the head bolt torque and i'm confused haha. "Cylinder head bolts
4.6L-SOHC
Step 1................................................. .........28 to 31
Step 2................................................. .........Tighten an additional 90-degrees
Step 3................................................. .........Loosen one turn
Step 4................................................. .........28 to 31
Step 5................................................. .........Tighten an additional 90-degrees
Step 6................................................. .........Tighten an additional 90-degrees"

Isn't this if i'm re using the old ones? What do you guys suggest torquing them down to?

Oh and if you're wondering why I didn't put them on while the engine was out is because me and a friend took it to his college auto shop and didn't have much time to do everything. Anyways, thanks for all the help Wickedsnake!

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post #73 of 131 Old September 29th, 2016, 09:46 PM
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No. You dont use old ones...ever

---------- Post added at 09:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------

Quote:
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Use the dot to dot method. See the attached picture:


Set your gears as shown. Take your chains, mark the end links (if they're not already) and align them with the end links on the dots.

NOTE: Whatever you do, put both chains on at the same time. DO NOT ROTATE THE ENGINE WITH ONE CHAIN ON. Then you end up with one cam 180 deg out of phase, and well, that's bad.
If cam sprocket dot is up where its supposed to be,that cannot happen

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post #74 of 131 Old September 29th, 2016, 11:27 PM
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dont want to thread jack, but also didn't want to start a new thread either, but it'll benefit op if he's wondering same question. but is there a break in period after installation?

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post #75 of 131 Old September 29th, 2016, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
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dont want to thread jack, but also didn't want to start a new thread either, but it'll benefit op if he's wondering same question. but is there a break in period after installation?
If you just changed the head gaskets I believe no. But if you honed it and got new rings like me then yes.

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post #76 of 131 Old September 30th, 2016, 07:59 AM
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This is what alldata says to do and the torque sequence.
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post #77 of 131 Old September 30th, 2016, 08:05 AM
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If cam sprocket dot is up where its supposed to be,that cannot happen
I'm just mentioning it has happened to a few members here, and no one wants to have to blow apart half the motor to reset the timing after their engine sounds like a tractor running on one bank. Better safe than sorry, especially when it's someone's first go at things.
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post #78 of 131 Old September 30th, 2016, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, this evening I "torqued" down the heads exactly how that said to. I used the torque wrench to see roughly how many lbs they were at, and some were less than 75, while others were more than 90 ftlbs? They all seem to be around 80 lbs, which seems low to me. Anyways, hopefully day after tomorrow I'll be done with this. Finally.
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post #79 of 131 Old October 1st, 2016, 03:40 PM
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Okay, this evening I "torqued" down the heads exactly how that said to. I used the torque wrench to see roughly how many lbs they were at, and some were less than 75, while others were more than 90 ftlbs? They all seem to be around 80 lbs, which seems low to me. Anyways, hopefully day after tomorrow I'll be done with this. Finally.
If you followed the correct torque and then angle procedure, you should be fine. The TTY system's whole purpose is to provide a more consistent torque by taking the fastener to the yield region.
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post #80 of 131 Old October 1st, 2016, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Okay im confused on the timing now haha. How do I find the end links on my chain?

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