My GT: Procharge, turbo? 2V, 4V, Coyote? - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #1 of 42 Old January 22nd, 2017, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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My GT: Procharge, turbo? 2V, 4V, Coyote?

Hello all!
My name is Jon, I have mostly been on the V6 forums for the last few years. I built a turbo V6 over the last few years and after countless let downs I am done with it. I purchased a 2JZ to throw into the car and began selling a bunch of parts off the V6 and planned one using the money to buy lots of parts for the 2JZ.

With the 2000 V6 from WI that I have I began to not want to stick much money into it due to all the rust it has on the underbody. I am in CA for a few months and within the first two weeks here I couldn't pass up a GT that a buddy of mine was selling. I not own a completely rust free 2000 Mustang GT, it has got the 03/04 Cobra front bumper mounted on it and the whole car has recently been painted to 66' Mustang color code "T". He used to have it procharged and I have the option to buy his procharger kit and run the tune that he was running with the kit but it's for the 2V so I wouldn't be able to run it if I build a 4V longblock.

Now I don't really know if it's worth throwing the 2JZ into the GT and selling the GT drivetrain or if I should just build up a V8 that I can have 800hp and maintain A/C and Power Steering and be happy with that.

I do not know much about the V8's as I mostly have a great knowledge about the V6ers. I know the basics, I read that if I build a teksid block with a kelogg crank and a set of forged pistons and rods people say is good for north of 1khp but I'm not sure if it's worth getting my 2V heads ported and polished and getting a set cams for either a procharger, turbo, or twin turbos. I know alot about the turbo's thus I am really leaning towards turbo, just don't know what engine setup would be the best.

What do you all suggest would be a good setup and how much boost to get 800-850hp? I like to get 100hp per cylinder as that's what I shot for with the V6. I'm mostly going to be street driving the car, never hit the track once in my turbo V6 but I'm sure I'll hit the track a few times throughout the year.


---------- Post added at 02:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------

I'd add pictures however the forums still have me on probation after all these years.

What to build
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post #2 of 42 Old January 22nd, 2017, 08:41 PM
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Well if you started with a 2000 GT with a 03 Cobra bumper you could stuff a twin turbo 4V in it exactly like I did.

Really you can get where you want to go either a 2V or 4V. The only difference is in the heads, you'll need the same shortblock (essentially) either way. It's up to you if you want to spend the money on aftermarket 2V heads and cams, or 4V heads. I think you can save a few bucks on the 4V, and they've got more potential, but they're physically larger and require a different intake.

What Procharger does he have? For that power range you're looking at something like an F1. It can be hard on cranks but it can work. Otherwise you're looking at something in the 76-88mm range for a single or twin 57s. Whichever one you want is up to you.

Realistically I would say a built 2V or 4V with a turbo (or two) is going to be much easier than a 2JZ or Coyote. It's pretty straightforward with off the shelf parts and minimal modification. The number of valves and snails is up to you; either will do the job.
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post #3 of 42 Old January 22nd, 2017, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks that is awesome, thanks for the reply! I was looking at mmr pistons and rods but they are only rated for 750hp, what do people run that have the 1khp 4V's?

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post #4 of 42 Old January 22nd, 2017, 08:58 PM
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1K HP 2V Short block.



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post #5 of 42 Old January 22nd, 2017, 09:12 PM
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I went with the Manley H-beams and Manley pistons. The H-beams are probably playing with fire at 1000+hp but are fine for 850hp. They're one of the more popular rods. Diamond, JE, and Gibtec pistons are all pretty well regarded.
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post #6 of 42 Old January 22nd, 2017, 11:13 PM Thread Starter
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Do you have any details regarding the parts used by chance? Block, pistons, rods, bearings, rings, crank, arp hardware ect?

---------- Post added at 09:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:11 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedSnake00 View Post
I went with the Manley H-beams and Manley pistons. The H-beams are probably playing with fire at 1000+hp but are fine for 850hp. They're one of the more popular rods. Diamond, JE, and Gibtec pistons are all pretty well regarded.
Thanks, I am going to look into them a bit more now!

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post #7 of 42 Old January 23rd, 2017, 01:21 AM
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Look at Molnar rods and Wiseco pistons.
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post #8 of 42 Old January 23rd, 2017, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedSnake00 View Post
I went with the Manley H-beams and Manley pistons. The H-beams are probably playing with fire at 1000+hp but are fine for 850hp. They're one of the more popular rods. Diamond, JE, and Gibtec pistons are all pretty well regarded.
The H beams are underrated at 1000RWHP. And there are plenty of them out there to prove it. Im pretty sure once you et to the 1000RWHP mark if your tune has a hiccup that might lead to issues but it could lead to issues with any rod and a bad tune.


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post #9 of 42 Old January 23rd, 2017, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by SSG Pate View Post
The H beams are underrated at 1000RWHP. And there are plenty of them out there to prove it. Im pretty sure once you et to the 1000RWHP mark if your tune has a hiccup that might lead to issues but it could lead to issues with any rod and a bad tune.
Better to be on the conservative side. I realize there's quite a few out there running beyond 1000hp (and fingers crossed I might.) I saw a guy on SVTP that was making in the 1100-1200 range through a TH400 with the factory SVT Manley rods and his let go after several seasons. Looked like straight up overloading failure too, no damage to the piston or bearings, just demolished it in the center of the rod.
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post #10 of 42 Old January 24th, 2017, 07:50 PM
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Build the 2v and put a turbo or a set of twins on it
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post #11 of 42 Old January 24th, 2017, 10:02 PM
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I'm curious. What is it you wish to do with 800 hp. Are you building your car for a specific purpose?

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post #12 of 42 Old January 27th, 2017, 03:49 PM
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I'm curious. What is it you wish to do with 800 hp. Are you building your car for a specific purpose?
Good question for the OP... and another question is are you looking for peak numbers or power under the curves? That could make a big difference in setup.
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post #13 of 42 Old February 1st, 2017, 04:10 AM Thread Starter
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99% of the time just going to be a street car. Want lots of low end torque for quick acceleration, been playing with 600 and want more to make having stick worth while. Don't want auto the least bit and don't really care to have a drag car, just a real fun fair weather car to cruise around in.

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post #14 of 42 Old February 3rd, 2017, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbang_6 View Post
99% of the time just going to be a street car. Want lots of low end torque for quick acceleration, been playing with 600 and want more to make having stick worth while. Don't want auto the least bit and don't really care to have a drag car, just a real fun fair weather car to cruise around in.
Perhaps a twin setup with 51mm bb turbos. Would spool quickly. Or a single 67mm bb turbo.. that would develop a lot of power under the curve
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post #15 of 42 Old February 3rd, 2017, 07:57 AM
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The bad part is people rate regular h beams with power. Give Tom molnar a call or do aome research and you'll realize he makes the best rods hands down. Even though I hate to say it, manleys usually are iffy around the 1000 hp mark. Now I have a good buddy that was running mid 1100 hp last year and made probably 100+ passes and his manley's held up.

As for 2v or 4v, stay 2v. It'll be cheaper to hit 800 and you have more options for intakes and such. Not only that you have less moving parts so some consider them a little more reliable because of that. But as far as power adder, the only thing that will be reliable that high would be turbo. There have been 800 hp blower cars but they are definitely max effort and with blowers it takes power to make power.

Cheap, reliable, fast......you can only pick 2

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post #16 of 42 Old February 3rd, 2017, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbang_6 View Post
99% of the time just going to be a street car. Want lots of low end torque for quick acceleration, been playing with 600 and want more to make having stick worth while. Don't want auto the least bit and don't really care to have a drag car, just a real fun fair weather car to cruise around in.
My two cents- if you want a fun ~800hp stick street car, I would go the PD blower route. Can't beat it for fun. Turbos are fun, but are best with an auto. (Sidenote: granted I'm trying to compensate for that by keeping the blower for the low end/stick, but if I was going straight turbo I'd have a TH400 in it at the same time.)

Back to the heads. Cost wise it's pretty close either way. Might be able to save a few bucks by running worked over PIs vs. aftermarket ones or 4V. But 4V actually opens up more options with PD blowers compared to 2V.
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post #17 of 42 Old February 3rd, 2017, 11:28 AM
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How much $ are you willing to spend? IMO you're gna be spending a fair amount of money if you're going with a 4v swap. Same with building a 2v to reach 800hp. If you pick up a Teksid block I'd recommend getting it pressure tested and have the cylinders checked in case they're ovaled or anything being as it's aluminum.

---------- Post added at 10:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 AM ----------

It isn't as simple as throwing parts at a motor and expecting it to last.

But then again, that depends on your budget

---------- Post added at 10:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 AM ----------

I picked up a few Sean Hyland books and it probably wouldn't be a bad idea for anyone wanting to build their 4.6/5.4.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...e-PAFYQgTYIiAQ

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...HdPhDTgQh3AIFg
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post #18 of 42 Old February 3rd, 2017, 12:23 PM
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For low end torque a positive displacement blower is best. They produce maximum torque at the lowest rpm. You will never get the tires to stick with 800 rwhp on the street especially with a manual transmission. First, second and maybe even third will be useless. Every time you turn a corner and touch the throttle the car is going to want to go sideways because, unlike newer cars, traction control on these cars suck. It doesn't help plant the power. It only turns off the fuel.

I remember a post several years ago from a guy who was running around 450-460 rwhp with 4:10 gears. He reported that every time he turned a corner and every time he passed a someone the car went sideways. He was wanting a quick fix. There wasn't one except to learn throttle control. At 800 rwhp it will be a lot worse.

You said that the car is 99% street and that you had been playing with 600. I'm assuming you mean driving 600, not thinking about 600. If its the latter then be careful of what you wish for, you might get it.

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post #19 of 42 Old February 3rd, 2017, 12:56 PM
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If you don't have $25,000 sitting in the bank, this thread is a waste of time.

I can think of less than 10 2v's who have broken out of the 700rwhp range. That kind of power is more brutal than words on a page can describe. Until you feel a 9 second car hook up, you don't really appreciate it. Most of those cars are not driven on the street much, and the ones that do are stuck doing 60mph+ pulls on the interstate.

Do a search on here and a couple other big Mustang forums still alive. Lots of people have aspirations to shatter records with "the underdog 2v," but very few of those threads get off the ground. The ones that do normally end abruptly when the OP runs out of money.

However if you're like the vast majority of guys and just want a quick, enjoyable car: throw any off the shelf forged piston and rod combo in it, add boost and enjoy.


What does your dyno sheet trap?
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post #20 of 42 Old February 3rd, 2017, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04MCcobra View Post
It isn't as simple as throwing parts at a motor and expecting it to last.
I mean technically that's what an engine build is.

Quote:
I picked up a few Sean Hyland books and it probably wouldn't be a bad idea for anyone wanting to build their 4.6/5.4.
I will attest the SHM book is pretty nifty. I keep one in the garage. The torque spec section alone is really useful.

Quote:
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I remember a post several years ago from a guy who was running around 450-460 rwhp with 4:10 gears. He reported that every time he turned a corner and every time he passed a someone the car went sideways. He was wanting a quick fix. There wasn't one except to learn throttle control. At 800 rwhp it will be a lot worse.
I can say 500+hp with a blower and 3.55:1s was fun as hell. You had to be careful with the throttle but that was half the fun. It was a special mix of excitement and abject terror that's hard to beat.

Quote:
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If you don't have $25,000 sitting in the bank, this thread is a waste of time.
It can be done a lot cheaper if you're a tight bastard (like me.)

Quote:
Do a search on here and a couple other big Mustang forums still alive. Lots of people have aspirations to shatter records with "the underdog 2v," but very few of those threads get off the ground. The ones that do normally end abruptly when the OP runs out of money, or limp on for years and years with a worthless, garbage pile of a 4V swap.
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