03 Mustang Drag Racing-Need help - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #1 of 20 Old May 1st, 2017, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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03 Mustang Drag Racing-Need help

Hey guys, Im a bit frustrated with my car right now. Went to a local test and tune and came away disappointed. Info on the car: Bullitt intake manifold swap, with jlt ram air, long tube heads with off road h pipe and lm2 cat back, sct 93 can tune (waiting on dyno tune appointment). Suspension: eibach springs, koni oranges all the way around, upr tubular k, upr solid lowers and adjust uppers, upr full length subframes and torque boxes. Drive-train: j-modded valve body, alum driveshaft, and 3.73s. I was running nitto nt05 street tires, but for what the car makes power wise they hooked great all night long. I have a pair of 315 nitto drag radials Ill be using from now on. I have a custom nitrous kit, with a plate and all the safety goodies with colder plugs. I ran NA all night and made 5 passes total hot lapping the car only once. Every run was 13.8 on the dot, with a 2.0 60ft, and 100-101 trap speed. I really thought with the work Ive done through the whole car it would be a 13.3 car or at least 13.5 all day long. I footbraked the car at the line to about 1500 rpm which is when my tires start spinning. Does anyone have some advice on things to try or why the car isnt running as well as I think it should with all that Ive done to it?
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post #2 of 20 Old May 1st, 2017, 08:51 PM
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Your 60 ft needs improvements. If you are hooking on the current stall footbreaking you need a higher stall. 1.7-1.8 60ft will get you to your 13.5 mark.

Your are trapping decent mph for your mods.

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post #3 of 20 Old May 1st, 2017, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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I have a 3500 stall circle d in my garage waiting to get installed. Just havent had the time. So basically 13.8 really is all this thing has got in it? Im just wondering if Im missing something or looking for a reason why lol

---------- Post added at 08:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

So basically 13.8 is all the car has got in it? The car hooked, has a better rear suspension and still only 60 foots 2.0. Im just wondering if Im doing something wrong or if that really all the car has in it
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post #4 of 20 Old May 1st, 2017, 09:11 PM
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Those are decent times to be honest. Remember a good rule of thumb is ever .1 off your 60' is .2 off your 1/4.

Working on the 60' with either better tires, track prep, rear suspension or a better way to launch it will make the most noticeable difference.
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post #5 of 20 Old May 1st, 2017, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Gotcha, I really thought the car was faster than 13.8's. Im working on getting my converter installed before a bracket race next weekend now lol
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post #6 of 20 Old May 1st, 2017, 09:48 PM
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I have almost the exact same mods and a stall with mt drags. Cant get lower than the 2.0 60 ft. I dont have gears though, which my tuner has been saying thats whats hurting me. I ran 8.85 in the 1/8th at 2 or 3k d/a.
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post #7 of 20 Old May 1st, 2017, 09:52 PM
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You should have someone custom tune it too i think. Might be 400$ and the price of a wideband but worth it. I havent run my custom tune yet. But i can tell sotp its faster
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post #8 of 20 Old May 1st, 2017, 11:02 PM
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Are your Eibach springs the drag springs or the prokit? Drag springs/shocks, disconnecting your sway bar will help out with your 60 ft some. I think you can cut .2 off your 60 ft
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post #9 of 20 Old May 2nd, 2017, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Snorky View Post
I think you can cut .2 off your 60 ft
No, that's not going to happen.

His problem isn't traction, which means tires and/or suspension won't make a hill of beans difference.

(And as a side note, my car has been 1.55 60's on 17" MT ET Streets with Eibach Pro Kit springs, Mach 1 shocks/struts, Bullitt sway bars front and rear, and stock everything else on the suspension. So there's really not a lot of reason to spend money on suspension parts unless you're going faster than that in the 60'.)

His problem is power. The car simply isn't making all that much anyway, and the stock tight converter is keeping it way down low in the powerband. The end result? Next to no torque going to the ground on the line, which results in slow 60's.

I fought this battle for a long time when I had the stock converter in my car. Many many many many moons ago, when I was still N/A, I was running the stock NPI heads, PI cams, PI intake, and pretty much every bolt-on available. The car ran 13.9s-14.1s @ ~99-100 every single pass it ever made like that, with about a 2.00-2.05 60' every time. I, also, was only able to swing about 1500 rpm on the footbrake before spinning. So the OP's 13.8 @ 101 sounds dead on accurate to me.

And to further illustrate the point, years later, when I had my SVO blower and really had it dialed in, I was running 11.9s @ 117-118, which is showing about 425 rwhp. Even with 425 rwhp and all the torque that a roots blower makes, with the stock converter, the car would still struggle to cut 1.80 60's. There was an occasional 1.77-1.79, but it almost always cut 1.82-1.84. You just aren't getting that much torque on the ground starting at 1500 rpm, no matter how much power the car is making. And that drastically hurts 60's, which drastically hurt 1/4 times.

To my knowledge, I've never seen a stock converter 4R70W go faster than the high 1.7s that my car cut. So I think it's safe to say that that's the absolute ceiling for a stock converter setup. And that's only with a lot of power, and a lot of low-end torque.

Now, that Circle D converter you're going to be putting in it, that's going to make a world of difference, though I'll bet when it's all said and done, you'll wish you would have gone bigger. I put a 3600 rpm converter (4c) in mine, and the 60's went from those high 1.7s I mentioned earlier to mid-high 1.5s, and the car went from running 11.9s to 11.5s. Looking back on it, wish I would have gone with a 5c.

-Will


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post #10 of 20 Old May 2nd, 2017, 08:47 AM
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Do you need steeper gears to match that converter? Cuz i have the sameish setup with a converter but no gears and i cant beat 1.96ish 60ft. Circle d 4c.
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post #11 of 20 Old May 2nd, 2017, 12:21 PM
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Do you need steeper gears to match that converter? Cuz i have the sameish setup with a converter but no gears and i cant beat 1.96ish 60ft. Circle d 4c.
Assuming you can hook it up (which at NA, 3600 rpm converter, and a decent set of drag radials, should be pretty easy), then yes, steeper gears will help. My 1.5 and 1.6 60's came with 3.73s out back.

What's the rest of your setup? How much power are you making? What's the DA? What's the car trapping?

-Will


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post #12 of 20 Old May 2nd, 2017, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gogone3 View Post
Do you need steeper gears to match that converter? Cuz i have the sameish setup with a converter but no gears and i cant beat 1.96ish 60ft. Circle d 4c.
Assuming you can hook it up (which at NA, 3600 rpm converter, and a decent set of drag radials, should be pretty easy), then yes, steeper gears will help. My 1.5 and 1.6 60's came with 3.73s out back.

What's the rest of your setup? How much power are you making? What's the DA? What's the car trapping?
I made a post about it that has my setup. Since that post i put on relocated uppers and had tuning done. I think i just need some gears. Didnt mean to thread jack.
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post #13 of 20 Old May 2nd, 2017, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaky98gt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by gogone3 View Post
Do you need steeper gears to match that converter? Cuz i have the sameish setup with a converter but no gears and i cant beat 1.96ish 60ft. Circle d 4c.
Assuming you can hook it up (which at NA, 3600 rpm converter, and a decent set of drag radials, should be pretty easy), then yes, steeper gears will help. My 1.5 and 1.6 60's came with 3.73s out back.

What's the rest of your setup? How much power are you making? What's the DA? What's the car trapping?
I made a post about it that has my setup. Since that post i put on relocated uppers and had tuning done. I think i just need some gears. Didnt mean to thread jack.
Bumped my other thread. This threads op has almost the same stuff as mine besides some obvious differences.
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post #14 of 20 Old May 2nd, 2017, 04:46 PM
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4.10s and a 4000 stall that thing will get out the hole pretty well. Wish I had an auto and a 4000 stall....Anyone want to trade ?

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post #15 of 20 Old May 2nd, 2017, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys! Sorry for not getting back to ya'll very quickly. Ive got the pro kit springs, I put the car together to really just improve what Ford did. I want to still be able to have the creature comforts, have a quality ride, and then rip and tear when I please. So far I think Im on the right track. I made an appointment to get the converter installed because I just dont have the time to do it. Ive got an event coming up this weekend (ford nationals at maple grove) so Im gonna make a few more passes and put my sticky tires on to see if I can get to that 1500 on the line. With my nt05s I was only getting about 1100. I wish I would have got 4.10s and I may throw them in next winter, but I got a hell of a deal on my 3.73s. Im having the car dyno'd next week, with the new converter installed and were gonna tune the car for the plate kit too. So in a few weeks Ill be able to report some much better numbers lol.
@sneaky98gt Was your awesome 60ft of 1.5 on a big and little set up? I currently have 315 nt05r on 10.5 bullitts. Ive been itching to get a set of bigs and littles, but I just spent $400 on the bullitt/dr setup. So maybe theyll be in the cards for next year. Im eyeing the new dark stainless ones from lmr. Also...when you had your car tuned with your higher stall converter, did you have your tuner adjust your shift points? The guy Ive chose the dyno tune the car is a prety good nitrous tuner, but Im not sure how familiar he is with the 4r trans. So any advice on how to set them up my self or any info I can pass on to him for setting the shift points up would be awesome. Additionally, with the converter should I keep my shift pressure the same or bump it down? Im running 15% on the first two shifts and 10% on the od shift just to be sure Im not tearing up the od clutches too much.

Thanks for all the input guys, and @gogone3 dont fear the gear! Get yourself some gears and rip up your old times! After putting 3.73s in my car I completely wish I would have gone 4.10s and if I wouldnt be running spray soon, I would be putting 4.30s in right now for sure
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post #16 of 20 Old May 3rd, 2017, 09:14 AM
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@sneaky98gt Was your awesome 60ft of 1.5 on a big and little set up? I currently have 315 nt05r on 10.5 bullitts. Ive been itching to get a set of bigs and littles, but I just spent $400 on the bullitt/dr setup. So maybe theyll be in the cards for next year. Im eyeing the new dark stainless ones from lmr. Also...when you had your car tuned with your higher stall converter, did you have your tuner adjust your shift points? The guy Ive chose the dyno tune the car is a prety good nitrous tuner, but Im not sure how familiar he is with the 4r trans. So any advice on how to set them up my self or any info I can pass on to him for setting the shift points up would be awesome. Additionally, with the converter should I keep my shift pressure the same or bump it down? Im running 15% on the first two shifts and 10% on the od shift just to be sure Im not tearing up the od clutches too much.
Nope, it was on 275/40-17 tires on 17x9 OEM '03 Cobra wheels all the way around. Running BFG tires on the front, and MT ET Street Radials on the back.

Just FYI, those 1.5 60's came with around 450 rwhp. So don't get the impression that you're going to go that fast making 250 rwhp, even though you have the same converter and gears. Your car just isn't making enough power to get it out of the hole that fast. At your power level, I'd be pretty happy with a low 1.8 or high 1.7 60'. I may be wrong, but I don't think it's going to go any faster than that.

I've done all my own tuning, constantly tweaking things as I've gone along. So that said, I don't know that I remember if I specifically had to change the shift points after the converter. You might, you might not. Get your tuner to leave the adjustability in the programmer, so you can tweak it yourself at the track.

Same with the shift pressure. Mine is quite a bit higher at WOT, but I also have a built transmission. Even with a stock transmission, though, I'd still say the shift pressure needs to go up a bit.

That reminds me: if you haven't already done the J-mod and added a transmission cooler, you need to do that ASAP. Especially with a converter in the car.

-Will


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post #17 of 20 Old May 3rd, 2017, 09:20 AM
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What day are you running at MG? Headed over there Sunday but not running.

I run the LMR big and littles and have no complaints. I do wish I saved up a little more and got welds but that's just me being vain, the wheels have been great. I run Hoosier QTP out back and MT sportsmans up front.

I'm supercharged and run 4:10's and could only hit 2.0's on the stock converter, car wouldn't hold past 1300. I installed a 3800 stall at the end of last season so only got one time out with it. Sort of babied it a bit but was already down to 1.6's by the end of the day.

My tuner did have to change the shift points around once the converter was installed. I'd be lying if I said I knew what he did to the pressure. Seemed pretty straight forward though, he asked the stall speed, changed a couple things in the tune and away I went.
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post #18 of 20 Old May 3rd, 2017, 09:30 AM
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The 10.5" wheels and 315 tires out back are slowing you down too. There was a night and day difference with different rear wheel setups on my GT. With longtubes, induction, rear control arms, and 255 BFG Street tires it went 13.68. Added 4.10s and 315 BFG Drag radials and couldn't go quicker than 13.8 even with a better 60'. Too much rotating mass. Got rid of the 315s and went with Weld 15x8 and a BFG Drag radial. Car went 13.44. This is with a stick and lifting every shift.

Now with the Mach, bone stock auto, on 15x8 Welds and BFG Drag radials the car wouldn't 60' better than a 2.0 and ran 13.8's. Slapped on a 12psi Vortech, valve body, Circle D 3600 stall and the car went 11.37 @ 121.
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post #19 of 20 Old May 3rd, 2017, 09:56 AM
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The 10.5" wheels and 315 tires out back are slowing you down too. There was a night and day difference with different rear wheel setups on my GT. With longtubes, induction, rear control arms, and 255 BFG Street tires it went 13.68. Added 4.10s and 315 BFG Drag radials and couldn't go quicker than 13.8 even with a better 60'. Too much rotating mass. Got rid of the 315s and went with Weld 15x8 and a BFG Drag radial. Car went 13.44. This is with a stick and lifting every shift.

Now with the Mach, bone stock auto, on 15x8 Welds and BFG Drag radials the car wouldn't 60' better than a 2.0 and ran 13.8's. Slapped on a 12psi Vortech, valve body, Circle D 3600 stall and the car went 11.37 @ 121.
I can vouch for the rotating mass of 10.5 rims. I'm running the same I was before cams and tune and 17x8 factory wheels than I am now with cams, tune, 10.5in rims. They are very heavy and are not good for racing.

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post #20 of 20 Old May 3rd, 2017, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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@sneaky98gt Trust me I know I wont be cutting 1.5s any time soon! lol. Thanks for the info on the shift points though, I guess trial and error will be the best way to get them right. I have done the jmod already and a big ass B&M trans cooler waiting to get installed. Just haven't had the time to pull the bumper. In order for my cooler to fit Im gonna have to clearance my hood latch support.

@Miserable I am planning on running the car on Sunday, as long as the weather holds out. If you see me give me a shout. The car is a black 03 gt, shaved spoiler and mach 1 chin spoiler. If youre in the pits Ive got an open trailer and grey/gold chevy truck. I like the look of the lmr wheels. As long as theyre functional I could care less who makes em lol. I just love the look of these cars with 17 in front skinnies, and lmr has a reasonable price on them.

-Looks like Im gonna be in the market for a set of bigs and littles sooner than I thought lol
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