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post #21 of 67 Old May 16th, 2018, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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Thats what i said. Didn't seem right.

Mods: Procharger D1sc, 4'pulley, 3 core IC, DW300, 60lb inj, vmp 5000 MAF, Tial BOV, Accufab plenum/75 tb, Catted X Pipe, Magnapack CB, 3.73 Gears, Exedy Clutch, Nittos nt555g2. [email protected]

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post #22 of 67 Old May 16th, 2018, 03:42 PM
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Hopefully this works. I do remember my tuner mention that i was running out of fuel. Can you tell from the graph?

Fuel looks good I would say the timing is overly conservative.
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post #23 of 67 Old May 16th, 2018, 03:46 PM
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It is SAE corrected. No information of temperature, barometric pressure, humidity or correction factor so we do not know if the correction was up or down. It is possible that the tuner just put on a very safe tune. Running 10 psi I would have expected SAE to be in the mid-390s.

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post #24 of 67 Old May 16th, 2018, 03:51 PM
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Wonder what the total timing was...AFR looks good according to the sheet.

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post #25 of 67 Old May 16th, 2018, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Should I ask my tuner for the info?

Mods: Procharger D1sc, 4'pulley, 3 core IC, DW300, 60lb inj, vmp 5000 MAF, Tial BOV, Accufab plenum/75 tb, Catted X Pipe, Magnapack CB, 3.73 Gears, Exedy Clutch, Nittos nt555g2. [email protected]

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post #26 of 67 Old May 16th, 2018, 08:24 PM
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Hopefully this works. I do remember my tuner mention that i was running out of fuel. Can you tell from the graph?
What MAF are you running? The stock MAF puts out too much voltage for the ECU around 360-370 rwhp. The stock MAF is capable of 0-9 volts output but the ECU is only capable of 0-5 volts input. Once the MAF hits 5 volts the ECU stops adding more fuel. When that happens we generally say the MAF has pegged even though it still has plenty of room to go.

When I first installed my supercharger the motor hit 385 rwhp. In order to make it run safe the tuner made the tune rich mid range so that it didn't lean out quite so much at the top. He set the AFR at 9.9 around 4000 rpm and it still hit 12.4 at 6000 rpm. A few months later I had a MAFia installed which rescales the output of the stock MAF. It has various setting and at the highest setting it rescales an MAF output of 9 volts down to 5 volts. That is somewhere between 800-1000 rwhp.

I'm just throwing out ideas but if your MAF pegged it is possible that your tuner made the tune conservative to protect the motor.

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post #27 of 67 Old May 16th, 2018, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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Funny that you mentioned that, the car was tuned without the IAT Sensor wired into the vmp 5000 MAF. Would that have caused any problems?

Another possibility, would having a vacuum leak cause any problems during the dyno tune?

Mods: Procharger D1sc, 4'pulley, 3 core IC, DW300, 60lb inj, vmp 5000 MAF, Tial BOV, Accufab plenum/75 tb, Catted X Pipe, Magnapack CB, 3.73 Gears, Exedy Clutch, Nittos nt555g2. [email protected]

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post #28 of 67 Old May 16th, 2018, 11:16 PM
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A vac leak will make it run poorly. It willl be a boost leak but you are still making 10lbs which about right with the 4in pulley.

I think it’s just super conservative. Every degree added is about 10hp I think...if your total timing is 10-11 you are missing about 30 solid safe rwhp. I could be off on the HP per degree. He might have done that because if your IAT issues. Maybe he pulled timing to account for a high IATs. Which is a good thing.

Is your IAT wired in now?

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post #29 of 67 Old May 16th, 2018, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, the IAT is now wired in and the vacuum leak has been fixed.
I bought a boost gauge that i'm going to install so i can monitor if i'm getting 10psi.

My dilemma, should i retune it? I don't really feel like paying for another tune though; haha.
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Mods: Procharger D1sc, 4'pulley, 3 core IC, DW300, 60lb inj, vmp 5000 MAF, Tial BOV, Accufab plenum/75 tb, Catted X Pipe, Magnapack CB, 3.73 Gears, Exedy Clutch, Nittos nt555g2. [email protected]

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post #30 of 67 Old May 17th, 2018, 12:45 AM
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Surely you can send some logs to him to look at and see if a retune is needed. I would say, though, if the IAT is now working and you know you have a vacuum leak then I would say a retune should be done. I'm surprised he even tuned it without an IAT sensor...I personally would not let my car be dyno tuned with an IAT sensor.

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post #31 of 67 Old May 17th, 2018, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
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I actually didn't even know. We found out later that it wasn't .

Mods: Procharger D1sc, 4'pulley, 3 core IC, DW300, 60lb inj, vmp 5000 MAF, Tial BOV, Accufab plenum/75 tb, Catted X Pipe, Magnapack CB, 3.73 Gears, Exedy Clutch, Nittos nt555g2. [email protected]

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post #32 of 67 Old May 17th, 2018, 10:51 AM
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You should be able to hit between 700rwhp and 800rwhp with that maf in a 3" pipe. I would get a retune with all the sensors and vac leak sorted. Shouldn't have any issues after that.


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post #33 of 67 Old May 17th, 2018, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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I have a power pipe sitting at home, should I install it? How does that work, do I gain or loose psi?
Should I also change pulley and add a bap?

My goal is 440rwhp

Mods: Procharger D1sc, 4'pulley, 3 core IC, DW300, 60lb inj, vmp 5000 MAF, Tial BOV, Accufab plenum/75 tb, Catted X Pipe, Magnapack CB, 3.73 Gears, Exedy Clutch, Nittos nt555g2. [email protected]

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post #34 of 67 Old May 17th, 2018, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang562 View Post
I have a power pipe sitting at home, should I install it? How does that work, do I gain or loose psi?
Should I also change pulley and add a bap?

My goal is 440rwhp
If your goal is 440, you will def need a pulley. A BAP depends on where your FPDC is at now.

I personally don't think a Powerpipe is needed (I have the stock procharger intake and I'm making 440w with it). I believe you will gain boost becuase you will be moving more air PRE-Headunit so more air making it into the engine (with the same restrictions in place POST blower your boost will increase).

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post #35 of 67 Old May 17th, 2018, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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This is how she looks now

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Mods: Procharger D1sc, 4'pulley, 3 core IC, DW300, 60lb inj, vmp 5000 MAF, Tial BOV, Accufab plenum/75 tb, Catted X Pipe, Magnapack CB, 3.73 Gears, Exedy Clutch, Nittos nt555g2. [email protected]

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post #36 of 67 Old May 17th, 2018, 04:24 PM
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Pulley down and get a better tune you will hit 440 with about 13psi

Buy a BAP just in case or see if the tuner sells them.
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post #37 of 67 Old May 17th, 2018, 06:17 PM Thread Starter
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What's a safe psi on a stock engine?

What pulley should I go with? Maybe 3.85?

Mods: Procharger D1sc, 4'pulley, 3 core IC, DW300, 60lb inj, vmp 5000 MAF, Tial BOV, Accufab plenum/75 tb, Catted X Pipe, Magnapack CB, 3.73 Gears, Exedy Clutch, Nittos nt555g2. [email protected]

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post #38 of 67 Old May 17th, 2018, 08:03 PM
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What's a safe psi on a stock engine?
It depends. Years ago when I bought my supercharger tuners were saying 8 psi, or 380 rwhp. Top tuners were saying that in all the car magazines. ProCharger published a chart that said 8 psi on Romeo motors and 10 psi on Windsors. Why more on a Windsor? They have a lower compression ratio.

Back then a New Edge was still fairly new. They were just out of warranty and a lot of people were modifying them, installing superchargers, and pushing the envelope. The general rule of thumb became 10 psi or 400 rwhp on pump gas. But risk takers disagreed. They said they heard about 13 or 14 psi and some posted outrageous claims of 500+ rwhp. They did this without telling the entire story.

People were also blowing up their motors. The more boost you add the less margin of safety you have left. One guy bragged about 13 psi and 415-420 rwhp. His motor lasted 9 months. Another bragged about 14 psi and 430 rwhp. His motor lasted 6 months. Some guys built dyno queens. I remember one posting that he was running 13 psi when the car was tuned but he refused to run it past 5500 rpm when actually driving it for fear of blowing it up. Some built garage queens driving them only 1,000-2,500 miles per year.

The general consensus is that 10 psi or 400 rwhp is reasonably safe. If you are running 10 psi on a completely stock motor you should be near 400 rwhp. That is SAE corrected which is a more common standard than STD. 9 psi will make 400 rwhp using STD correction. (reference my signature).

Do some get away with more boost? Yes. Does everyone get away with more boost? No.

If you want more than that then you need to make the motor more efficient by installing supercharger cams. They typically add 30-40 rwhp without running higher boost. Want that near 500 number? You need to put in big injectors and run E85.

You need to decide how much risk you want to take. I never recommend something that I wouldn't run myself that is why I say 10 psi and 400 rwhp is reasonably safe on a stock 4.6 2V.

Quote:
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What pulley should I go with? Maybe 3.85?
You need to get your problems fixed and your tune right before you start adding smaller pulleys. What is your goal for your car? The old saying is "Plan the build, build to the plan." If you don't know your goal you are just throwing money at it.

There is another old saying, "fast, reliable, cheap." Pick two. Fast and reliable isn't cheap. Cheap and reliable isn't fast. Fast and cheap isn't reliable.

My goal for my car was that of a reasonably fast, fun daily driver. I consider 12.7/111 mph to be reasonably fast. My car was hardly a garage queen. Before I retired I drove 20,000 miles per year and I hit 6,000 rpm almost every time I drove it. It is fun to drive.

I still drive my car 7,000-8,000 miles per year. It has 210,000 miles and the last 130,000 were supercharged. I change oil twice per year. It using around 3/4 quart of oil between oil changes. I would say it has been reliable.

ProCharger P-1SC, 9 psi, STD 396/383; Uncorrected 388/375; SAE 383/370.
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post #39 of 67 Old May 17th, 2018, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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You said a lot of good info; i appreciate that. My goal is the same as yours, reasonably fast, fun daily driver, and that can keep up to the newer cars. I will fix all the problems it has first, then i will take it to the track to see how she does.

Mods: Procharger D1sc, 4'pulley, 3 core IC, DW300, 60lb inj, vmp 5000 MAF, Tial BOV, Accufab plenum/75 tb, Catted X Pipe, Magnapack CB, 3.73 Gears, Exedy Clutch, Nittos nt555g2. [email protected]


Last edited by mustang562; May 18th, 2018 at 01:50 AM.
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post #40 of 67 Old May 19th, 2018, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone on here experienced with bov's? I'm running a Tial 50mm and I believe I'm getting surge. Is this bad? How can I fix it? I believe I'm running a 6psi spring. Should I switch it?

Mods: Procharger D1sc, 4'pulley, 3 core IC, DW300, 60lb inj, vmp 5000 MAF, Tial BOV, Accufab plenum/75 tb, Catted X Pipe, Magnapack CB, 3.73 Gears, Exedy Clutch, Nittos nt555g2. [email protected]

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