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post #1 of 9 Old June 15th, 2018, 10:08 AM Thread Starter
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Switching between E85 and 93

You guys running E85, do you also have a 93 tune? How are you switching between the fuels? Running it to empty? Draining from the fuel rail/line? Anybody weld a bung in the bottom of the tank?

I just did a Fore dual returnless setup with - 8 feed and 80lb injectors. My current tuner is no longer tuning Mustangs so I have to go to a new tuner. He's another respected good local tuner, but I trusted my guy for so many years. Anyway, I need to get a new tune and pretty much have to pay $600 for a 93 tune that will get me to the exact some place I am right now, and another $600 for an E85 tune.

There are only 2 E85 stations within 4 miles of my house. How many miles are you guys getting to a tank on E85? I don't think I'll even make it to the track and back (130 mile round trip) with some racing in between on one tank. That's really the furthest that I take the car. Everything else is local. If I ever want to do a longer cruise, I think the only option is to take E85 with me or run the tank low, switch tunes, and fill up on 93. I'd really like to not have to pay for a 93 tune, but I don't think there is another option?

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post #2 of 9 Old June 15th, 2018, 10:53 AM
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E85 will give you terrible fuel mileage, you will get 50% at most %70 of what you will get on 93. the benefits for power have their drawbacks.

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post #3 of 9 Old June 15th, 2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by blownstang View Post
You guys running E85, do you also have a 93 tune? How are you switching between the fuels? Running it to empty? Draining from the fuel rail/line? Anybody weld a bung in the bottom of the tank?

I just did a Fore dual returnless setup with - 8 feed and 80lb injectors. My current tuner is no longer tuning Mustangs so I have to go to a new tuner. He's another respected good local tuner, but I trusted my guy for so many years. Anyway, I need to get a new tune and pretty much have to pay $600 for a 93 tune that will get me to the exact some place I am right now, and another $600 for an E85 tune.

There are only 2 E85 stations within 4 miles of my house. How many miles are you guys getting to a tank on E85? I don't think I'll even make it to the track and back (130 mile round trip) with some racing in between on one tank. That's really the furthest that I take the car. Everything else is local. If I ever want to do a longer cruise, I think the only option is to take E85 with me or run the tank low, switch tunes, and fill up on 93. I'd really like to not have to pay for a 93 tune, but I don't think there is another option?
I have always wondered what the procedure for switching a tune would be. I would assume you could get away with filling the tank when low and just switching the tune. This is why Meth injection has always seemed like a more flexible option to me.
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post #4 of 9 Old June 15th, 2018, 11:05 AM
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If going from an E85 tune to a 93 tune, you could just swap IMO. Stoich would be off, and you'd run a bit leaner if you went WOT, but if you had say 3-4 gal of E85 left in a tank, and topped of with 93 youd be at ~E30-E40, and SHOULD be able to run like that as long as you aren't hammering it real hard. Granted, our cars don't have widebands in line for lambda correction via feedback the way newer cars (ecoboost, etc.) do. so the ECM/tune wont compensate as much...but in essence youd just have a higher octane ratio and denser fuel for a tad. I would think you'd be fine under those conditions.

Going the other way...well, that would depend how aggressive your tune is set. If you're on the ragged edge of E85 then I would say go as low as possible on 93, then swap. If you have a decent bit of headroom, then I think the same would apply. Again, without the O2's for compensation, and knock sensors for spark modification, could be a bit more of a pain than a newer vehicle.

For reference, my SHO got ~15 mpg on E30 at 16 lbs of boost, and 25 degrees spark advance. So I could get about 200 miles out of a tank like that. Straight E85 would drop that down, but you could always bring 5 gallons with you just in case...

Also, are there no E85 stations/sources near the track you go to?

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post #5 of 9 Old June 15th, 2018, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derfdog15 View Post
If going from an E85 tune to a 93 tune, you could just swap IMO. Stoich would be off, and you'd run a bit leaner if you went WOT, but if you had say 3-4 gal of E85 left in a tank, and topped of with 93 youd be at ~E30-E40, and SHOULD be able to run like that as long as you aren't hammering it real hard. Granted, our cars don't have widebands in line for lambda correction via feedback the way newer cars (ecoboost, etc.) do. so the ECM/tune wont compensate as much...but in essence youd just have a higher octane ratio and denser fuel for a tad. I would think you'd be fine under those conditions.

Going the other way...well, that would depend how aggressive your tune is set. If you're on the ragged edge of E85 then I would say go as low as possible on 93, then swap. If you have a decent bit of headroom, then I think the same would apply. Again, without the O2's for compensation, and knock sensors for spark modification, could be a bit more of a pain than a newer vehicle.

For reference, my SHO got ~15 mpg on E30 at 16 lbs of boost, and 25 degrees spark advance. So I could get about 200 miles out of a tank like that. Straight E85 would drop that down, but you could always bring 5 gallons with you just in case...

Also, are there no E85 stations/sources near the track you go to?
I haven't looked into that nor do I know if any data i find is valid. I'm sure on a full tank I'd have enough to get to the track and race, but coming back I'd need that 5 gallon jug with me or run it real low and look for a station to pump 93.

There will only be about 18 degrees of timing in it. Stock motor limited. Running 11 degrees right now on 93.

2004 DSG Mustang Mach 1 4r75w - 508/436 on E85. 460/396 on 93. Intercooled Vortech V1 S trim, Circle D 4c converter, BCA valve body, VRS o/r x pipe. 11.37 @ 120.8 mph 1.63 60'
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post #6 of 9 Old June 15th, 2018, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Snorky View Post
E85 will give you terrible fuel mileage, you will get 50% at most %70 of what you will get on 93. the benefits for power have their drawbacks.
Considering i only put 400 miles on the car last summer and 800 miles on it 2 years ago I wasn't too concerned with gas mileage. Usually all my driving is done within a 10 mile radius. Most would probably be 40 miles one way. I hit the track once or twice a year so that 130mile round trip is about the furthest the car has ever seen. I chose E85 for the reason that I don't do much driving, it's one less thing to fail vs going with meth, and I was pretty much very close maxing out my current single pump with bap so I was due for a new fuel system if I bump the power up, which I would need a built motor anyway. The E85 will put me deep into the limits of the stock Mach motor at 500rwhp through an unlocked auto. If it becomes a hassle with the E85 and street driving i will add the meth in the future if I do the motor. Atleast the fuel system will be more than I'll need on pump gas if I decide to do pump gas plus meth down the road.

2004 DSG Mustang Mach 1 4r75w - 508/436 on E85. 460/396 on 93. Intercooled Vortech V1 S trim, Circle D 4c converter, BCA valve body, VRS o/r x pipe. 11.37 @ 120.8 mph 1.63 60'
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post #7 of 9 Old June 15th, 2018, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Derfdog15 View Post

Also, are there no E85 stations/sources near the track you go to?
I just checked the map on E85prices.com and there is a station right off the highway one exit before the track. So like 10 miles from the track.

And looking within a 10 mile radius of my house there are about 20 stations that sell E85 according to the map.

2004 DSG Mustang Mach 1 4r75w - 508/436 on E85. 460/396 on 93. Intercooled Vortech V1 S trim, Circle D 4c converter, BCA valve body, VRS o/r x pipe. 11.37 @ 120.8 mph 1.63 60'
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post #8 of 9 Old June 15th, 2018, 11:44 PM
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All i ever done was drain out the fuel from my fuel rail line.. then install E-85 Fuel then upload the tune and drive it a few miles before romping on it to give the fuel a good chance to get in the system and work out what little 93 was left.


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post #9 of 9 Old June 19th, 2018, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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We're putting a fitting with a nipple between the fuel rail adapter and hose fitting. I'll just have to unscrew the cap, hook up a hose, and load a tune that keeps the pumps running.

2004 DSG Mustang Mach 1 4r75w - 508/436 on E85. 460/396 on 93. Intercooled Vortech V1 S trim, Circle D 4c converter, BCA valve body, VRS o/r x pipe. 11.37 @ 120.8 mph 1.63 60'
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