01 GT bolt-ons to Vortech V-3 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #1 of 21 Old November 24th, 2018, 12:32 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up 01 GT bolt-ons to Vortech V-3

Hi folks, my Dad has always wanted to S/C his 2001 GT. 38,000 miles on it, headers, chipped, CAI, x-pipe and borla side exits. So I think we are going to get the Vortech V-3 Si-Trim Tuner Kit.

We have a local tuner so after I install it we'll load it up on the trailer and take it over there. stryker 340lph pump with 60# injectors on a v3 (10psi at 6k rpm) through a treadstone trv25o and I am at 90% FPDC without a BAP or a wiring upgrade.
  • I was wondering if there are any cons to not having a oil fed S/C?
  • Larger MAF housing necessary?
  • 42lb injectors? I'm thinking 60lb would like to not starve near 400hp range
  • Fuel pump? Looking at the DivisionX Stryker 340lph pump
  • SCT for a tuner??
  • I would like to slap a FMIC on it too I saw some guys using treadstone trv25 set up. Seems legit

I would love to hear what you guys think I know there are some serious builds around here.
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post #2 of 21 Old November 24th, 2018, 01:13 AM
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MY setup is a Prcharger D1SC, Slot style MAF, 60lb injectors, Walbro 255, boost a pump, Comp Cams, longtubes....I'm at 440whp at 6300RPM making almost 12lbs of boost, my duty cyle on the pump is 70%.

For your setup, 42lb injectors will be fine. The 340 pump will be fine. You will want a 90mm Lighting MAF or a Diablo MAFia. Most people will recommend converting to a slot style MAF like I did but not necessary for your power goals.

Having a self contained supercharger is fine. Mine is. Just change the oil every 5-6k miles.

If your local tuner uses SCT, which most likely he does, then yes get an SCT X4 or X3.

A lot of people run the CX racing intercooler kit. It's good enough for your power goals. Treadstone is a good intercooler, a Procharger 3 core is a good intercooler too. To keep cost down just get the CX Racing intercooler kit.

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post #3 of 21 Old November 24th, 2018, 09:47 AM
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If the car is actually chipped, instead of just flash tuned, you'll probably need to remove the chip before getting it tuned. I recommend an sct X4, the display is nice and the gauges are useful. As for fuel, 42lb and a 340lph pump with bap will get you to 400hp pretty comfortably.

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post #4 of 21 Old November 24th, 2018, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblock_stang View Post
Hi folks, my Dad has always wanted to S/C his 2001 GT. 38,000 miles on it, headers, chipped, CAI, x-pipe and borla side exits. So I think we are going to get the Vortech V-3 Si-Trim Tuner Kit.

We have a local tuner so after I install it we'll load it up on the trailer and take it over there. stryker 340lph pump with 60# injectors on a v3 (10psi at 6k rpm) through a treadstone trv25o and I am at 90% FPDC without a BAP or a wiring upgrade.
  • I was wondering if there are any cons to not having a oil fed S/C?
  • Larger MAF housing necessary?
  • 42lb injectors? I'm thinking 60lb would like to not starve near 400hp range
  • Fuel pump? Looking at the DivisionX Stryker 340lph pump
  • SCT for a tuner??
  • I would like to slap a FMIC on it too I saw some guys using treadstone trv25 set up. Seems legit

I would love to hear what you guys think I know there are some serious builds around here.

oil feed from the engine ensures you get a fresh supply of filter oil.
you could use either injector 60 will give you more room to grow in the future.
I like mishimoto R series intercoolers over any other that i have ran to date.


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post #5 of 21 Old November 24th, 2018, 12:19 PM
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I have run the 340 divisionX pump, it can handle the power, but i am not a big fan of it.
For the extra couple bucks i would just get the 60# injectors, i started with 47#'s with my blower and now im at 60's with my turbo.

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post #6 of 21 Old November 24th, 2018, 12:23 PM
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As for feed vs. Reservoir, apples to apples, one has a more difficult install, but you only change motor oil.

The reservoir is easier to install but you change the blower oil every other motor oil change.

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post #7 of 21 Old November 24th, 2018, 12:41 PM
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Unless you are planning on tearing down the motor and rebuilding it with forged rods and pistons 42# injectors are more than enough. A 340 lph pump is also more than enough. 340s weren't available when I modded my car. The alternative is a 255 lph which is barely enough. I didn't need it but a lot of people had to resort to using a BAP with the 255s. 340 definitely do not need a BAP. You didn't mention spark plugs. You need to go to a colder plug. I have had great success with NGK TR6s gapped at .035.

You do not really want to go with a Lightning MAF. People use to max it out requiring the use of a Diablosport MAFia anyway. The MAF is not the problem. The computer is. It can receive only up to a 5v input. It can't understand anything higher and the stock MAF is capable of much higher output. What a Diablosport MAFia does is rescale the output so the computer can understand what its receiving. It is advertised to go up to 800 rwhp. A tuner in Tennessee once said he tuned a car to near 1000 rwhp with one. I'm running one and think its a great option to the slot style MAFs.

You do not need a larger housing. That can cause turbulence within the MAF which gives erroneous readings. Some were putting screens in the tubing to try to reduce turbulence. You will be relocating the MAF anyway just use the housing that comes with kit.

I'm a ProCharger fan so take some of what I say with a grain of salt. Vortech's are a good supercharger but you are patching it together to make it work the way you want. Their kits are designed with a draw-through MAF. That is not ideal and most of the Vortech driver change it. A draw-through MAF is mounted before the supercharger in the cold-air-intake. The by-pass (or blow-off in a different configuration) valve is located in the pipe just before the throttle-body. You cannot vent the air to atmosphere. People have tired to put the MAF on the same pipe as the by-pass valve converting it to a blow-through configuration but that causes massive turbulence through the MAF. Vortech's solution was an air-to-water aftercooler.

The configuration you are talking about with the Treadstone intercooler is one that many Vortech drivers have done. You need to move the blow-off valve to the pipe running from the head unit to the intercooler and move the MAF to the pipe coming off the intercooler. There are after market kits that you can buy to do this. (ProChargers are designed in that exact configuration from the factory.)

The self-contained versus tapping the oil pan is a discussion solely for Vortech drivers. All ProChargers are self-contained. I have 141,000 miles on mine. I like self-contained because engine contaminants do not get into the supercharger. And there has to be a reason why all of Vortech's newer designs are self-contained. At one time they didn't sell any self-contained units.

How much boost can a stock motor hold? It depend completely on the tune. Detonation is the killer. Still there are some general rules of thumb and it all depends upon how much risk to want to take. Originally supercharger manufacturers said 8 psi. That is still true of a non-intercooled Vortech. Yes, some have gone 10 psi using meth. Again, it depend upon how much risk you want to take.

ProCharger recommended 8 psi on the 01-04 Mustangs and 10 psi on 99-00. Why? 99-00 have Windsor motors. 01-04 have Romeos. Romeos have a higher compression ratio (9.4 instead of 9.0). Manufactures don't want the responsibility for blown motor so they low ball it a little. There used to be a lot of activity on this forum with people pushing the limit and in general 10 psi is reasonably safe. 12 psi is pushing it but is reasonably safe with cams. People were blowing up motors at 13-14 psi. Not all at once. They lasted a few months before going.

I'm still running a chip and I have a spare in a box. I'm running a Diablsport chip. I have SCT in a box. Why? My first tuner didn't have SCT software. Tuners can reprogram the chip. You don't need a handheld unless you want one. Once you supercharge and you have the correct tune you are not going to be changing it.

Good luck with your project. I am absolutely sure that your Dad will be happy with it.

P.S. This is really rare but it shows that you had a join date of 2006 and are a newby with only 2 posts. Where did you go?

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post #8 of 21 Old November 25th, 2018, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you everyone for the feedback and great advice. I appreciate it. I've got my build sheet I'm been working on over the past few months. I think I'm going to go ahead and order the Vortech V-3 Si-Trim Supercharger tuner kit for his GT. We do like the benefits to ProCharger's set ups but the cost is too high for us right now. $3700 kit vs $5300 kit

To answer your last question I have been around ModdedMustangs since 2006 that is correct, but MY mustang project has been on hold for 12yrs...1964.5 that I bought for $900 was to get my donor 460 but after tear down and magnaflux I found cracks in the block. Long story and 3 kids later I've been fabricating some parts and off-roading a bunch with my Dad. We left the race scene for awhile and then I beat his 01GT in my wife's Explorer Sport 3.5LTT at the track 3 times. He was not happen (I cut solid light and he was going up in smoke from 0-60') so I bought him some slicks on cobra rims and told him he should be low 13's atleast. Then I bought a 2.7LTT AWD and cut a 13.5 @99.91 bone stock and next season I'll be tuned and pulling 12's with it. So he want's that S/C LOL long story sorry dude.

I run a 2 step colder NGK TR6 for my little cougar when I spray on it so I'm familar. But thank you for bringing it up. By the way thank you I did not know they could reprogram the chip it's a diablo sport I believe. I have only worked with old school piggy back systems and my current SCTX3 for my truck.
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post #9 of 21 Old November 25th, 2018, 10:58 AM
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Heres what I learned from messing with my supercharger

do yourself a favor and get this pump, https://www.amazon.com/Walbro-TU229H...albaro+TU229HP, its good for 520whp
it was previously thought drilling holes in the basket was the way to go but thats just not true it makes things worse, i had a very lengthy conversation with the guys from Fore fuel and he lead me to this pump, its actually the same one americanmuscle sells but with a BBK sticker on it. 100% plug and play, not cutting splicing etc it just drops in and it just works. Here's my experience with the stryker didnt last very long https://www.reddit.com/r/NewedgeMust...fuel_pressure/

Get a mishimoto R inter cooler, its worth the extra 100 bucks. If you have an efficient air to air intercooler its really not going to matter whats going on the hotside

Don't bother with a powerpipe on the head unit, its more trouble than its worth, sucks up water and causes the MAF to go ape shit and then water accumulates in the intercooler, just a filter on the head unit is just fine and i picked up 1 psi without the power

if you decided on going with a boost a pump i highly recommend the JMS unit over the kenn bell

my FPDC is currently at 80% with only 20% over voltage and it only comes on with the supplied hobbs switch.

I am at 480whp and I autocross, circle track race, and am just a straight up hooligan and the cars been very reliable, ive raced with just a 1/4 of tank of fuel and no hiccups or fuel cuts like i was getting with the modified basket and stryker pump.

IMHO the V3 headunit is nicer because you dont have to modify the oilpan but either way its not that bad.

42lb injectors or more than adequate, your going to need a beefed up engine before you runt out of fuel with those injectors
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post #10 of 21 Old November 25th, 2018, 02:30 PM
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I run the same pump^^^.

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post #11 of 21 Old November 25th, 2018, 07:44 PM
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Find procharger kit used on craigslist, i bought mine used, workes great! Just check for shaft play and that it spins freely
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post #12 of 21 Old November 26th, 2018, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snorky View Post
Find procharger kit used on craigslist, i bought mine used, workes great! Just check for shaft play and that it spins freely
I might add that it would be best if you found one with a 3-core intercooler instead of a 2-core intercooler. The ProCharger 3-core intercooler one of the more efficient superchargers on the market. It has a lot better flow meaning less pressure drop across the intercooler. An intercooler with a 1 1/2 pound pressure drop versus one with a 3 pound pressure drop means that you can either run a larger pulley for the same boost (less belt slippage) or else get more boost to the motor with the same pulley (again less belt slippage).

So whether ProCharger or another brand you want to get an efficient intercooler not just a cheap intercooler.

Note: A ProCharger 3-core intercooler is not the same thing as a single core 3" intercooler. They have a horizontal flow and are more restrictive. ProCharger's intercoolers get their name for the number of vertical flow cores they have. A 2-core is 3" thick and has two 9" vertical cores. A 3-core is also 3" thick but it has three 9" vertical flow cores. There are a ton of people who misunderstand this. They want to call all 3" intercoolers 3-core. They are not. Almost all of the others are single core.
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post #13 of 21 Old November 26th, 2018, 02:47 PM
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My 2 Core is good for now with my D1. IATs are always consistent and low but I'm only at 440w. When I build the bottom end I'll need a better intercooler for sure.

Agreed, if you can find one with a 3 core do it...just know, the 2 core is perfectly fine for the power a stock bottom end will handle.

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post #14 of 21 Old November 26th, 2018, 03:59 PM
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This is awesome thread I'm in the same boat as the OP i think.

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post #15 of 21 Old November 26th, 2018, 09:19 PM
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Don't bother with a powerpipe on the head unit, its more trouble than its worth, sucks up water and causes the MAF to go ape shit and then water accumulates in the intercooler, just a filter on the head unit is just fine and i picked up 1 psi without the power
I can verify that water will make the MAF go ape shit. I don't have a power pipe but I went through a very deep puddle that splashed tons of water over the windshield. Water also went through my air filter, cold air intake, head unit, intercooler and fouled the MAF. The engine wouldn't run much higher than idle. Opening the throttle only let more air in, no fuel. I had to have the MAF cleaned to get the car running right again.

In a way I was lucky I had the intercooler and additional piping. Too much water will fill the cylinder with water hydrolocking the motor. Since water doesn't compress it bends and breaks connecting rods. That happened to a member in southern Indiana several years ago.

Note: You can only run an air filter on the head unit if you change from Vortech's draw-through system to an intercooled blow-through system. A draw-through MAF is located in the cold air intake.
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post #16 of 21 Old November 27th, 2018, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Eagle2000GT View Post
Note: You can only run an air filter on the head unit if you change from Vortech's draw-through system to an intercooled blow-through system. A draw-through MAF is located in the cold air intake.
This, I made the assumption that he was going blow through, dont know many people who go draw through these days

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post #17 of 21 Old November 27th, 2018, 09:16 AM
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You can also use a dual pump setup out of a cobra. I have a low mileage factory 04 cobra fuel hat with pumps and harness for sale if you'd be interested.

I've ran an oil fed Vortech V1 S on my GT and Mach for 8 years. Started non intercooled at 9psi, then intercooled at 9psi, then 12psi. The GT made 411rwhp. The same blower setup is currently on my Mach 1 making 509rwhp through an auto. At 452rwhp, about 475rwhp with a stick, my 255lph svt focus pump and KB bap were at 100% duty cycle.

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post #18 of 21 Old November 28th, 2018, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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MineralGray thank you for that detailed break down. And guys I would like to get a ProCharger set up for him but I have had no luck finding a used one and this V3 is fairly affordable and seems reliable. By the way I don't think I mentioned it is an automatic GT. so 9psi or so pulling 400+ to the wheels will be great for Dad. We always want more power but I'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Eagle2000GT great info and this has helped me add to my build sheet quite a bit I'm really cautious about walbro pumps because I have had bad experiences in the past but that plug and play set up sounds nice.

I'm not necessarily worried about water considering we have a trailer and this car never sees any weather but sun. I mean hell it's almost 18yrs old and has 38,000 miles LOL

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post #19 of 21 Old November 29th, 2018, 09:24 AM
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You'll need a little more than 9psi to make 400rwhp through an auto. On 9psi you'll probably be around 370 with the Si. Pulley it for 11psi and you should be good.
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post #20 of 21 Old November 29th, 2018, 03:56 PM
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I agree. I'm running 8.9 psi and make 383 rwhp SAE at the wheels. There at two standards: SAE and STD. They report different results. On the very same pull I made 396 rwhp STD. Uncorrected it was 388 rwhp. I've never run without an intercooler. One of the Vortech drivers can tell you this better than I but 11 psi without cooling is pushing your block. In general, parasitic loss through a manual transmission is 15% (I think its closer to 13% but 15% is close.) and parasitic loss through an automatic is around 20%. 400 at the wheels would convert to 500 at the block. At 11 psi you may have problems with detonation if you don't use an intercooler. I have read where people pushing that could also use meth.

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