Return Fuel Sytem Routing Question - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #1 of 15 Old May 21st, 2019, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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Return Fuel Sytem Routing Question

Hey guys,
Since my engine is out and being rebuilt and after talking to my tuner, I think I'm going to make the dive and go with a return fuel system. I was hoping some of you with experience can help me out with my choices and best places to route my fuel hose and regulator. It starts with my older fore fuel hat with (2) Super Car pumps > -8 An PTFE hose to 88mm Fore fuel filter down the passenger side of the car > rear driver side fuel rail > crossover from driver side front rail to passenger side front rail. Rear Passenger rail > - 6an ptfe hose to Fore F1i regulator (mounted on passenger side of car)> return -6an ptfe hose back down passenger side of car to fuel hat.

So that is what I'm thinking. What do you guys think? Is there a better why to route it? A cleaner why with less fittings needed? Thank you in advance for your help.



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post #2 of 15 Old May 21st, 2019, 08:39 AM
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Just my two cents, I was keeping an eye on SVTP and they seem to be seeing good results with a deadhead setup, with cooler return temperatures and no pressure issues.

I would go up to the engine bay, regulator on the passenger side, to a Y-fitting, send it to the rails. Return line back down the passenger side, similar routing to the supply line.
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post #3 of 15 Old May 21st, 2019, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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I have read so much on SVTP on that deadhead set up too. I have read so many forums in the last couple days on this topic my head hurts.lol Funny thing is the original guy that started all that on SVTP last posted that he has switched back to a traditional set up just with a cooler in the return line. I was always curious on if the Cobra guys had more of an issue with this due to the Eaton. I've never owned one but was under the impression that they got pretty hot.

If I keep to the traditional set up do you see any flaws in my parts or routing? Obviously if you have a way to reduce the cost of fitting or extra hose I'm all ears. I also hope my 2 supercar pumps are enough. I really don't want to run a Boost a Pump. I should only be around 550-600 horse power.
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post #4 of 15 Old May 21st, 2019, 12:45 PM
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It's tough to reject as much heat from the fuel rails as you put in, especially if parts and space are at a premium.

If you're primarily concerned about reducing parts, then yes your configuration will work. With a non-deadhead configuration I prefer splitting to both rails in parallel rather than in series, but that's me. For most applications series will be sufficient.

Two GT pumps will definitely flow enough for that much power without a BAP. I don't know about their capability as return style 100% duty cycle pumps though.
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post #5 of 15 Old May 21st, 2019, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, I will do a little more research on how the GT pumps work in a return system. I have plenty of fuel in the returnless set up but I'm switching at the strong recommendation of my tuner. Since my tune cost me my last engine I'm trying to make it as easy as possible to get the tune right this time.
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post #6 of 15 Old May 21st, 2019, 08:04 PM
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There was some concern about their longevity running at 100% duty cycle in a return style system, but I can't seem to find any information one way or the other out there.

What was your tuner's input? Really under 600hp on a returnless system isn't a big deal. It isn't until the 750+ point that it becomes more practical to go return style.

Also keep in mind you'll want a wiring upgrade to run bigger pumps like that. If you stay returnless you'll want to go dual FPDM as well.
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post #7 of 15 Old May 22nd, 2019, 09:32 AM
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I ran a traditional return setup -10an split before the rails to dual -8an, then both go to a regulator that i mounted by the hydroboost, and then it runs back to the tank. I did experience what i think was overheating of the pumps on a blazing hot day, i am turbod with all of my pipes wrapped snf blanketed at the time. Car would shut off, i would way 20 min. It would start up again and drive. For 5 min. Shut off. Repeat until i made it home. After dropping thr tankbi also found my connections over the tank had deteriorated somehow. Whether this incident was a cause of the connectors or hot water heater style over heating of fuel and pumps is beyond me.

I am now running a dead head setup regulator in front of my passenger tire. We will see how tuning goes soon.

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post #8 of 15 Old May 23rd, 2019, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WickedSnake00 View Post
There was some concern about their longevity running at 100% duty cycle in a return style system, but I can't seem to find any information one way or the other out there.

What was your tuner's input? Really under 600hp on a returnless system isn't a big deal. It isn't until the 750+ point that it becomes more practical to go return style.

Also keep in mind you'll want a wiring upgrade to run bigger pumps like that. If you stay returnless you'll want to go dual FPDM as well.
I talked to Fore Innovations yesterday and he said as long as the pumps are healthy, I shouldn't have any issues with them running at 100% duty cycle. He also stated that a lot of the heat issues were due to having dual larger 400+LPH pumps, he said my smaller pumps shouldn't be an issue. I already had the duel FPDM and wire upgrade for the returnless system, only decide to switch to return at the recommendation of my tuner.

I did decide to go -8 AN for the Feed and Return instead of using the -6 AN for return. Less fittings and only added about 5 more dollars to the total bill.

---------- Post added at 11:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:52 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by Snorky View Post
I ran a traditional return setup -10an split before the rails to dual -8an, then both go to a regulator that i mounted by the hydroboost, and then it runs back to the tank. I did experience what i think was overheating of the pumps on a blazing hot day, i am turbod with all of my pipes wrapped snf blanketed at the time. Car would shut off, i would way 20 min. It would start up again and drive. For 5 min. Shut off. Repeat until i made it home. After dropping thr tankbi also found my connections over the tank had deteriorated somehow. Whether this incident was a cause of the connectors or hot water heater style over heating of fuel and pumps is beyond me.

I am now running a dead head setup regulator in front of my passenger tire. We will see how tuning goes soon.

Do you have any pictures of how you had it routed on the driver side? I only decided to try the passenger side because I thought I would be able to follow the stock lines and thought their would be more room for the regulator on the passenger side not having the hydro boost. I plan on running mine in a series just because its less fittings to buy.lol Fore said I should be good to 1200-1300 on the series set up. I will never even come close to those number.
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post #9 of 15 Old May 25th, 2019, 09:40 PM
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dead head is the way to go id you want to keep the heat out of the fuel. I made about 750RWHP with my dead head setup to date and thats what i have been running for several years now.

When i ran the traditional way i had way to much heat in the fuel but now its good to go.


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post #10 of 15 Old May 26th, 2019, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSG Pate View Post
dead head is the way to go id you want to keep the heat out of the fuel. I made about 750RWHP with my dead head setup to date and thats what i have been running for several years now.

When i ran the traditional way i had way to much heat in the fuel but now its good to go.
Thanks SSG, do you have any recommendations on hose routing or best way to secure the hose? Did you pull out all your stock lines?
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post #11 of 15 Old May 27th, 2019, 08:25 AM
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I ended up removing all of my stock lines and followed the stock routing eith both the feed and return for the deadhead setup. Y2k02gt suggested the deadhead to me so i said why not.



That critical bend. Thats Crimsom in the shot, we were installing my torque arm.



Underside shot you can see how i had to snake it through the ladder bars. I used the area to mount my fuel filter there too. Then it goes into the fender area. In the rear i looped it way up high over the axle and used straps and self tappers to hold it to the bottom of the car so the axle will never touch it. I ran it in a way that under full compression of the rear suspension the pumpkin will never touch it.



Up the fender, the rear port is where i have the line enter the engine bay, but first it loops to the front of the fender area where i have my regulator mounted.



Down in the front where that red and blue fitting is, that is about where i mounted my regulator. Dont mind the mess in there, that is from wire tucking the passenger side. So i have a 10an feed going over the fender to regulator, a 10 an feed from the regulator back over the fender to the opening lesding to the engine bay, and an 8 an return following the first -10 feed back to the tank.


Once in the engine bay i put my splitter block next to my ac. Canister. Which i have 2 8ans running to the back of the division X rails. Yes.. that is a 120 degree red and blue fitting at the back of my passenger rail. The drivers side uses a standard 90





At the front of the rails i bridged, them i am using a fuel rail pressure sensor and i have a little pressure gauge on my rail as you can see.

Mounted the hobbs switch to my secondary pump here... this is where i had my regulator mounted on my traditional return system.

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post #12 of 15 Old May 27th, 2019, 06:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the pictures, that helps alot. Did you just use zip ties? Or did you use adel cushion clamps?
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post #13 of 15 Old May 27th, 2019, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 01Bullitt82 View Post
Thanks for the pictures, that helps alot. Did you just use zip ties? Or did you use adel cushion clamps?
Both!!! Whatever i vould use at each location. Hope that helps some

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post #14 of 15 Old May 28th, 2019, 12:03 AM
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I've had traditional style with a Holley 12-1800 wired up for both pumps at 100% all the time and never had a problem

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post #15 of 15 Old May 31st, 2019, 07:50 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Froush, I'm going to stick to the traditional for now. Its what Fore recommend. If I ever go to some bigger double or triple pumps I might think about switching to a deadhead.
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