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post #1 of 28 Old September 28th, 2011, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Rifle Guys! Need Help Please.

So first off, I don't know much of anything about guns. I know calibers and basic shooting and safety with handguns and rifles, but not much more.

My dad is looking into buying a few more guns. He's got a few shotguns (12s, 20s, 410) a .243 bolt action rifle, and a few handguns (.38s, 9mm, .22s.) He wants 3 guns. 1 is just a plain AK47, but he doesn't really need help with that. One of the others is a semi auto carbine type rifle. His requirements are 308 caliber, 500-600yds range, 20-30 round mag, can easily switch between optics, and somewhere slightly over or near $2,000. He found a SCAR 308 today that was $2400 that he's looking at and the guy at the gun store owns 2 308 SCARs personally and he swore they were the best bang for the buck in my dad's requirements (Except price.) Any recommendations on a rifle that meets his requirements would be great (Up to 2500, just to give him a range of options.) He's really looking for the best value and just a hunting gun that can be used for self defense as well if needed. (Also, optics don't need to be included in the price range. He's willing to spend whatever it takes to get the best optics separately from the gun itself.)

The 3rd gun is a .45 handgun. He looked at both the 1911s and the Glocks today but he liked both. He told me to just try and find a reliable, .45 handgun that doesn't weigh as much as the 50cal Desert Eagle that the gun store guy tried to sell him today. Not really a price range but the best value would be appreciated.

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post #2 of 28 Old September 28th, 2011, 08:02 PM
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For rifle, the SCAR is pretty good, the LMT 308 is an amazing rifle, but out of the price range unless he found a deal somewhere. Knights Armament also makes top notch weapons.

For the pistol, you really cant go wrong with a 1911 or Glock for reliabilty in a combat proven weapon. Im sure you'l;l have others come along telling you to get a XD or M&P but if it were me, Id get the Glock.



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post #3 of 28 Old September 28th, 2011, 08:12 PM
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Rifle: springfield armory m1a loaded with a leupold mark 4 optic

Handgun: springfield armory xd .45 tactical, or m&p 45 or glock 21.

Ill explain why when I get home and can type on a keyboard.



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post #4 of 28 Old September 28th, 2011, 10:21 PM
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If your dad is set on a .45 then tell him to get a 1911. He won't be sorry. I plan on getting my hands on a 1911 someday.

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post #5 of 28 Old September 28th, 2011, 10:29 PM
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Alright, here is why I would rock an M1A Loaded with Leupold scope over an AR in .308 configuration. The action is drop dead reliable. Unless you get gobs and gobs of mud or sand in the action it will always go boom. It also has one of the best triggers of any semi auto. It is accurate (the loaded's match barrel is a nice addition ) at range. Roughly 1.5 MOA with factory ammo, sub MOA with hand loads. Magazine size is 20, which is about all you will find in a .308 semi auto. I'm sure there are some 30 round magazines out for all of the .308 rifles, but 20 seems to be a great even number.

Of course it's not a carbine (and please don't buy the SOCOMII, it's not very accurate (3MOA with factory, 1.5MOA with handloads), and it's not even short at 44.5" but it's worth every last inch of that. I guess the M1A Scout's are accurate, but it's not "carbine" length by any stretch at 36" long it's the same size as a full M16 :O

.308 isn't a good self defense round, unless your area of defense includes perpetrators at 50+ yards, good luck defending yourself in court with that large of an area In the house, one of his shotguns will suffice better than his handguns or a rifle of any type, but for hunting it's a great round with plenty of accurate and efficient rounds for all sorts of game.

The handgun is pretty obvious, any of the modern polymer handguns are going to be lighter than a 1911, accurate and reliable to boot. You can't go wrong. I LOVE my XD45 Tactical, it's stupid accurate (even for a standard XD) but you can't go wrong with the M&P45 or the Glock 21. If he's a big 1911 fan, the M&P and the XD will be better fit for him as it is more like a 1911 than the Glock is in shape and function (grip angle and all that).


As for the FN, well, I'm not a huge fan of the SCARs (either caliber), neither in the looks or the functionality department. It's just too expensive for what it offers and not really offering much over other options. A .308 AR is going to a better investment than the SCAR will be and just as accurate if not more accurate. Cheaper too, more abundant help and support should something break. I dunno, it's just not my cup of tea.



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post #6 of 28 Old September 29th, 2011, 12:33 AM
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What's he going to be doing with the .308 the most? If it were me, I'd be going with an AR chambered in 5.56/.223 and another AR in .308. The have the same manual of arms, so it would be simple to switch between the two. The Larue OBR is a badass rifle.

As for the pistol, any of the big polymers are good. HK45 and USP, M&P45, XDM45, FNP45, gen4 G21. If he wants a 1911, I would go with a high end production, or lower end semi-custom gun. That's at least $1300.

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post #7 of 28 Old September 29th, 2011, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Matt86 View Post
For rifle, the SCAR is pretty good, the LMT 308 is an amazing rifle, but out of the price range unless he found a deal somewhere. Knights Armament also makes top notch weapons.

For the pistol, you really cant go wrong with a 1911 or Glock for reliabilty in a combat proven weapon. Im sure you'l;l have others come along telling you to get a XD or M&P but if it were me, Id get the Glock.
Looked at the Knights Armament, but they're about 4 grand for a gun. He's not looking to spend that much on one gun unless it has Leupold optics included. My dad and I are going to the range to fire both the 1911 and a glock or two tomorrow to see which he likes better, as well as a few different caliber rifles to get a basic feel for them all.

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If your dad is set on a .45 then tell him to get a 1911. He won't be sorry. I plan on getting my hands on a 1911 someday.
I called my uncle last night, (He's a huge gun collector) and he said the same thing. "Glock is the ugliest damn gun you'll ever hold and has a shitty trigger pull but its the most reliable .45 on the market with the barrel rifling design. Nothing like a simple Colt .45 though, smooth, simple, and beautiful." He then said just go shoot them both and see which feels better. He recommended a Nighthawk 1911 .45 though. The gun store has one so we'll see about it tomorrow.

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Alright, here is why I would rock an M1A Loaded with Leupold scope over an AR in .308 configuration. The action is drop dead reliable. Unless you get gobs and gobs of mud or sand in the action it will always go boom. It also has one of the best triggers of any semi auto. It is accurate (the loaded's match barrel is a nice addition ) at range. Roughly 1.5 MOA with factory ammo, sub MOA with hand loads. Magazine size is 20, which is about all you will find in a .308 semi auto. I'm sure there are some 30 round magazines out for all of the .308 rifles, but 20 seems to be a great even number.

Of course it's not a carbine (and please don't buy the SOCOMII, it's not very accurate (3MOA with factory, 1.5MOA with handloads), and it's not even short at 44.5" but it's worth every last inch of that. I guess the M1A Scout's are accurate, but it's not "carbine" length by any stretch at 36" long it's the same size as a full M16 :O

.308 isn't a good self defense round, unless your area of defense includes perpetrators at 50+ yards, good luck defending yourself in court with that large of an area In the house, one of his shotguns will suffice better than his handguns or a rifle of any type, but for hunting it's a great round with plenty of accurate and efficient rounds for all sorts of game.

The handgun is pretty obvious, any of the modern polymer handguns are going to be lighter than a 1911, accurate and reliable to boot. You can't go wrong. I LOVE my XD45 Tactical, it's stupid accurate (even for a standard XD) but you can't go wrong with the M&P45 or the Glock 21. If he's a big 1911 fan, the M&P and the XD will be better fit for him as it is more like a 1911 than the Glock is in shape and function (grip angle and all that).

As for the FN, well, I'm not a huge fan of the SCARs (either caliber), neither in the looks or the functionality department. It's just too expensive for what it offers and not really offering much over other options. A .308 AR is going to a better investment than the SCAR will be and just as accurate if not more accurate. Cheaper too, more abundant help and support should something break. I dunno, it's just not my cup of tea.
I emailed the M1A and your post to my dad and he's definitely interested in it. Leupold optics were already planned to be purchased with whatever rifle he ends up with. I don't honestly know what the MOA is though. I agree that a 30 round mag is a bit overkill for hunting, which is all he really planned to use it for. The self defense thing was if it absolutely had to be used, could it be considered a decent weapon for defense.

How heavy is a M1A though? That's another consideration because my dad's got back and left shoulder issues so toting around a big heavy full sized rifle could be a slight problem, as well as the fact that my mom wants to shoot She was raised with 2 gun fanatic brothers and she wants back into it now. She doesn't want a little pink .22 or any BS like that though. She'd be just fine with a .308 assault rifle but again with the weight consideration. I'd be the only one who could carry a real heavy, full sized rifle for them.

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What's he going to be doing with the .308 the most? If it were me, I'd be going with an AR chambered in 5.56/.223 and another AR in .308. The have the same manual of arms, so it would be simple to switch between the two. The Larue OBR is a badass rifle.

As for the pistol, any of the big polymers are good. HK45 and USP, M&P45, XDM45, FNP45, gen4 G21. If he wants a 1911, I would go with a high end production, or lower end semi-custom gun. That's at least $1300.

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He's really just planning on hunting with it honestly. He's set on the .308 for some reason though. I get that another caliber would probably be better for his uses but he says he wants a .308. That Larue is badass but its more than he would like to spend, considering he's planning on putting an EOTech and a Leupold optics on top of the actual rifle cost. If it was 3k inclusive, he'd be all over it.




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post #8 of 28 Old September 29th, 2011, 08:25 PM
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I have to agree on the AR10 variants as a great .308 platform. The LaRue OBR is an awesome rifle.

I'd also have to agree with the XD/XDm 45 or the HK45. I have all three and love them all. I also have an Armalite AR10 with Leupold Mark IV and love. Shoot great and handle good too.


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post #9 of 28 Old September 29th, 2011, 08:28 PM
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Before we go all throwing weapons out at ya... Heres the main question;


What are you needing them for? Hunting? Shoot to have fun? Home Defense (pistol)?


Id LOVE to pick up an M1A/M14. I nicely set up one can cost around your price and are very nice weapons. But, they do not have a 30 round mag.

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post #10 of 28 Old September 29th, 2011, 08:33 PM
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post #11 of 28 Old September 29th, 2011, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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Before we go all throwing weapons out at ya... Heres the main question;


What are you needing them for? Hunting? Shoot to have fun? Home Defense (pistol)?


Id LOVE to pick up an M1A/M14. I nicely set up one can cost around your price and are very nice weapons. But, they do not have a 30 round mag.
See above, the weapons aren't for me, I'm just trying to get some advise on what my dad should get. He's the one looking to pick up a few guns. Hunting/Range fun gun are really what they'll be used for. And the 30 round mag isn't particularly important, my dad just got a little bit excited with being able to unload 30 .308s before having to reload.




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post #12 of 28 Old September 29th, 2011, 10:12 PM
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Also check out 6.8 SPC unless hes dead set on the 308. The M1 isnt too heavy, but Im used to carrying rifles a good bit so his back issues could interfere, an AR variant would be a good choice here I think

As stated, Glock doesnt have the smoothest trigger pull, nor does most guns, but I love mine that has a little love put into it. That said, a 1911 can give you butter smooth pull and clean crisp breaks that will spoil you.



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post #13 of 28 Old September 29th, 2011, 10:19 PM
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If your dad is set on a .45 then tell him to get a 1911. He won't be sorry. I plan on getting my hands on a 1911 someday.
This, I love my Kimber 45 1911, by far my favorite pistol!


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post #14 of 28 Old September 30th, 2011, 06:00 PM
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.338 :d
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post #15 of 28 Old September 30th, 2011, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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.338 :d
That round is twice the size of a .308 lol. Effective up to 1500 yds? Don't you think thats a hair overkill for a hunting/range rifle?




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post #16 of 28 Old September 30th, 2011, 06:30 PM Thread Starter
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post #17 of 28 Old September 30th, 2011, 06:52 PM
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So is 530 rwhp but that didn't stop me!

Besides mounting a deer head with a 4" hole in it would be way cooler than one without one!
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post #18 of 28 Old September 30th, 2011, 07:40 PM
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.338 is a waste if you aren't shooting over 1500yds. a 300 win mag is just as flat and powerful up to that range. If you are looking for a decent semi auto .308 carbine style rifle the 2 best really for accuracy and reliability are the Larue OBR and the LMT MWS which i think is in his price range. SCARS are nice just a little overpriced, cool yes just not as accurate as the other 2.
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post #19 of 28 Old September 30th, 2011, 07:42 PM
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It was a joke White.... Hence all of the laughing smilies.. Like a few said I really think the Larue OBR is the best rifle for this category.
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post #20 of 28 Old September 30th, 2011, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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So is 530 rwhp but that didn't stop me!

Besides mounting a deer head with a 4" hole in it would be way cooler than one without one!
That's true lol. How about you buy me a Roush TVS2300 and I'll buy the .338 rifle.

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.338 is a waste if you aren't shooting over 1500yds. a 300 win mag is just as flat and powerful up to that range. If you are looking for a decent semi auto .308 carbine style rifle the 2 best really for accuracy and reliability are the Larue OBR and the LMT MWS which i think is in his price range. SCARS are nice just a little overpriced, cool yes just not as accurate as the other 2.
Yeah both of those rifles are out of his range. He's now looking at the Bushmaster .308ORC and the Armalite AR-10A4 with the match trigger. Opinions?

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