'65 Coupe 351w - Page 12 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #221 of 885 Old August 23rd, 2011, 09:15 PM Thread Starter
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It has been a month since my last update, and just so you guys don't THINK I'm not working on it, I'll let you KNOW that I'm not working on it. Last week was my 5th straight 90+ hour week. I hope to get a few weekends off over the next few weeks, but I don't know that I'll have much time for the car. It might be mid to late October before I make any real progress.

The big hold up at the moment is that I have to get my wheel clearance issues fixed so that I can start working on the body gaps.

i still plan to fill all of my gaps with fiberglass body filler, and then sand them smooth and cut a razor thin groove for the seam, like here:

1968 Mustang Project Primering Filler Photo 28
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post #222 of 885 Old October 9th, 2011, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Small Update

I've been back in town for a few weeks now, and I've gotten some time to get back on the car. For the most part, I am chasing electrical demons, but I did take a break from that yesterday to roll my front fenders.

Unfortunately, there was a terrible smudge on my camera lens, and none of my pictures turned out well enough for posting.

The basic process was pretty simple though, use a jack to lift the car up off the suspension enough to wedge a baseball bat between the tire and the wheel well, then drop it back down tight, and wiggle the bat up and down, to get the fender lip to start to curl upwards. I started in the middle (top) of the fender lip, and worked my way forwards, then moved to the middle and worked my way back. Once I had gone all the way around, I dropped the jack a little more, to get the bat wedged in tighter, and worked my way around again.

I was never able to get the lip rolled back up under the fender well flat like I wanted using the bat. So I took a pair of channel locks, and used a healthy amount of electrical tape, fastened a large washer to both tips. This gave me a large flat smooth surface on each side of the pliers. I was able to take the modified channel locks and clamp down all the way around the lip, getting it to curl back up under flush.

The whole process to less than an hour for two front fenders.

Getting both fenders rolled solved my rubbing issues, so now I can make right turns without the cringe inducing groan.

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post #223 of 885 Old October 15th, 2011, 01:19 PM
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congrats on the "redneck" fender rolling. that is basically the same technique I used on my 65. I bought this expensive fender lip rolling tool from eastwood but I found the bat worked better.
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post #224 of 885 Old October 26th, 2011, 01:40 AM
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what the he11 did I miss? lemme catch up
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post #225 of 885 Old October 26th, 2011, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Small Updates

For the last three weeks I've been doing two main things

A) Chasing electrical demons
B) Looking for my cooling system gremlins

A)

I had a 4.5 AMP parasitic drain when the key was off. Turns out I was using the wrong alternator wiring pigtail. Turns out you should not buy the pig tail that matches your motor and options that are installed in the car. You should buy the pigtail that matches the original wiring harness of the car. Using the wrong pigtail, I managed to fry two alternators.

I have also determined that my turn signal switch is bad, which is what is causing my drivers side tail light to not work, along with neither blinker working. I will do a nice follow along for replacing the turn signal switch, as that looks lots of fun being inside the steering column.

I also stumbled across this little jewel today (It is a lot easier to see the problem with the video on full screen):




I've got two plug wires that are partially burned through. I thought plug wires were supposed to be able to handle resting on a header. Do I just have cheap wires, or is this an indication that my exhaust temps are too high (which could be part of the problem with my coolant)

B)

I have not made a lot of progress. The cars runs hot, and I don't think I am just being paranoid. I am using an mechanical gauge that I picked up at auto zone for about $25 to check temperature. It is inserted into the intake manifold near the #5 piston. Today I let it get all the way up to 240 before I shut it off, and it was still climbing. The problem is obviously worse when the car is idling in the garage where there is no airflow, but even if I put a huge a$$ box fan in front and blow a ton of air across the radiator, it doesn't have much effect. This seems to indicate to me that it is not an airflow issue. If I rev the engine up to about 2000 - 2500 rpm, then i get an instant 5-10 degree drop in temperature, but it will not continue to pull it any lower. When I am driving the car (35 - 50 mph range) if I keep it revved up over 2000 rpm, I can keep the temp under 210, but if I idle along around 1000 - 1500 rpm, then it starts climbing towards 230 - 240.

FYI I have tried base timing between 10 - 15 degrees, total timing is around 35 degrees.

Things I have tried:

A) New molded hoses, the previous hoses were flex hoses, and I was worried they were dragging down the coolant flow
B) New thermostat, the old one opened rather slow (started opening at 180, didn't fully open until 205)
C) Added a fan shroud (needed one anyway)

Things I'm thinking about trying:

A) Hi volume water pump. Currently I am just running an auto zone special water pump. And since more flow is never a bad thing, and my aluminum pulley is probably an under drive pulley. I can probably help things significantly this way.

B) Better radiator. I bought the mustang plus 302 swap radiator, because it fit into the stock opening, but had the proper lower left outlet to work with my 1978 water pump. However, that means I am trying to cool a 351 with a 302 radiator, which is probably not ideal. Any suggestions on a good radiator?

Other tidbits...

Way back in April I tried to get the car aligned, but couldn't get it done because most of the steering system was shot. Now that I have put in the R&P, I took it in for an alignment, but once again they turned me away. Looks like I need new lower control arms before an alignment. So when I get back around Thanksgiving, I will hoist this thing back up in the air, and replace the upper and lower control arms. What else should I replace while I am in there?

Last edited by ajzride; October 26th, 2011 at 10:36 PM.
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post #226 of 885 Old October 27th, 2011, 12:13 AM
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Awesome progress so far. Looking forward to seeing more of your project, as it is motivation for me to push hard on my 67. I also appreciate your guidance on the 351w on both your post and mine. Keep it up.

1967 mustang coupe with nothing special yet.
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post #227 of 885 Old October 27th, 2011, 01:28 AM
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if you are able to keep the engine temp down when you are driving, it does indicate an airflow problem. you may have a marginally adequate radiator as well, but the main thing changing when you drive is airflow. what kind of fan do you have? what about a coolant recovery system? an electric fan may help some but if that does not help and your timing is correct then the next step would probably be a larger aluminum radiator. I would start with the fan though. as far as radiators are concerned. I personally love my Griffin aluminum radiator in my 65. when I bought it however there weren't many options and they are pricey. I bought a champion radiator for my daughters car and they are supposed to be pretty good quality. certainly a lot cheaper than the griffin although they don't look as nice.
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post #228 of 885 Old October 27th, 2011, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustanggarage View Post
if you are able to keep the engine temp down when you are driving, it does indicate an airflow problem. you may have a marginally adequate radiator as well, but the main thing changing when you drive is airflow. what kind of fan do you have? what about a coolant recovery system? an electric fan may help some but if that does not help and your timing is correct then the next step would probably be a larger aluminum radiator. I would start with the fan though. as far as radiators are concerned. I personally love my Griffin aluminum radiator in my 65. when I bought it however there weren't many options and they are pricey. I bought a champion radiator for my daughters car and they are supposed to be pretty good quality. certainly a lot cheaper than the griffin although they don't look as nice.
Are you sure about this? The fact that I have to keep the RPMS up over 2000 regardless of speed to maintain temperature tells me that I have a water flow problem. If it was an airflow problem, then the forced air from my speed and not RPMS would fix the problem correct?

The fan is a plastic 7 blade with a wicked angle on it. The thing moves so much air it will suck a 4"x4" piece of paper into the radiator from 24 inches away at idle.
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post #229 of 885 Old October 27th, 2011, 12:36 PM
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well that does sound different than I thought. usually driving increases airflow but if it is dependent on rpm and not speed than you are right it does sound more like coolant flow. did you have all the coolant passages in the block and heads brushed or boiled out? the other question is if you are running an underdrive pully on the waterpump like you questioned because a stock waterpump ought to provide adequate flow under normal circumstances. it does sound though like your fan is doing the job. naturally I assume the head gaskets were installed correctly. just trying to think through possible things that might be contributing.

when the car is idling can you see water flowing in the radiator with the cap off? and I guess a probably stupid question but one to confirm, is the waterpump a reverse flow pump?

I don't have an answer but hopefully helping you think of things to check will help you find it.
chad
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post #230 of 885 Old October 27th, 2011, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure the head gaskets are installed correctly. If you look at the front you can see the corner sticking out on the bottom. Also, if they were installed incorrectly I would think it would overheat pretty fast (it takes 30 minutes to get really hot now) and I don't there would be much I could do to cool it.

The block has been boiled twice in the last six months, so the passages had better be good and clean.

I've not pulled the water pump yet, but looking back at some of my build pictures, I'm 99% certain that I do not have a clockwise/counterclockwise mismatch between the pump and the timing cover.

When the radiator cap off, and the car idling, you can just barely see a ripple in the surface of the water, so not really much flow at all. As soon as you rev it up, you can really see the water starting to flow. I guess I'll go crawl youtube to see if I can find some video of how much flow I should see at idle.

Thanks MustangGarage
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post #231 of 885 Old October 28th, 2011, 10:06 AM
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I think I'm going to drop a '76, 351 Ford motor from a boat in mine. Low hours, I'm going to create a new post for the job.

Ryan
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post #232 of 885 Old October 28th, 2011, 04:01 PM Thread Starter
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Good luck, somewhere in this long there are my thoughts on how to squeeze the 351 into the 65 engine bay. If you read it and still have questions, send me a PM. It is a pain, but if you do things in the right order, it can be done without banging your car or your hands up too much.
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post #233 of 885 Old October 29th, 2011, 09:08 AM
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Are you running the stock pulleys on the engine?..I am just wondering if the waterpump is being turned too slowly?..Using underdrive or mismatched pulleys can cause problems...Also getting back to your plug wires no they cannot rest against the headers..You need the boots with something like 135 degree angles so you can turn the wire until you get some clearance from the pipes..If its still really tight you might have to run some protective sleeves on the wires..
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post #234 of 885 Old October 29th, 2011, 01:19 PM Thread Starter
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Since I don't know if my pulley is under drive, I would like to measure it. However I can't find my stock pulley, does anyone know the diameter of a stock 351w water pump pulley?
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post #235 of 885 Old October 29th, 2011, 06:37 PM
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Go to autozone, bring a measuring tape and measure it.
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post #236 of 885 Old November 23rd, 2011, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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Boy has this project gotten sidetracked.

Way back in April I was totally stoked that I was ready to go get an alignment, which would enable me to cruise the car around the neighbor and up to the parts store. Thats when I found out my whole steering system was shot, and I made the decision to go with an R&P.

Of course I wound up having to rip the motor out and rebuild it for a second time in sixth months. While I waited I started working on body work and suspension, and most recently I have been chasing cooling and electrical. Throw in a heavy dose of real world/work, and it has been seven months since I thought I was ready to hit the road.

Well last week I finally got around to taking it in to get an alignment again, and once more, no joy. The technician told me he could align it, but that I wouldn't be happy with it, unless I replaced my upper and lower ball joints, along with strut rod and sway link bushings.

While most of this is probably pretty basic, I took some pics anyway, basically because it has been so long since I posted anything significant, that I'm starting to feel lazy.
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post #237 of 885 Old November 23rd, 2011, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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Ripping Apart the Front

Nothing unusual here, other than the Unisteer Tie Rods and the 620# 1" drop springs, the front suspension is completely stock.





First I separated the lower control arm from the spindles by removing the castle nut, and attacking it with a tie rod separator.



Next I disconnected the tie rod ends



Next I disconnected the sway bar links (Unfortunately this picture was too blurry to post) and broke the strut rods loose by removing the the nut and first set of bushings.

Now my spindle was hanging by the upper ball joint. Note to anyone doing this in the future, that was a very bad idea. As soon as I busted the upper ball joint loose, the whole spindle came crashing down. I would suggesting separating the upper ball joint first, and then separating the spindle form the lower control arm last.



I used some very large zip ties hang the spindle to the fender well.



The upper ball joints were in terrible shape,



One snag I ran into, is the the bolt for the lower control arms, is hidden behind my unisteer rack and pinion assembly



Although there is a large hole in the R&P, which looks like it was to allow access to this bolt, the hole does not line up with the bolt, doesn't line up with anything really



I was forced to drop the R&P assembly, one side at a time, to remove the lower control arms.

I have always hated working on suspension and steering stuff, but I have to admit, that this process was pretty simple, and it took less than 4 hours to rip it all apart, and put it back together. It helped that I ordered new lower control arms with the lower ball joints already installed.

Unfortunately, a a failure of the braking system, prevented me from getting it to the alignment shop today, but maybe this weekend.
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post #238 of 885 Old November 24th, 2011, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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One other thing I accomplished today was installing a new turn signal switch into the steering column. I though about doing a full write up, but the fine folks over at Mustang Monthly have already done it for me.

Installing A New Turn-Signal Switch On A 1965 Ford Mustang - Mustang Monthly Magazine

The only note I have to add to this, is that I could not get all of the wires to pull back through using my feeder, they kept snagging. When I got ready to pull the wires for the new switch down the column, I had to pull them two at a time. Once they reached the bottom, I could detach one of the wires, and use the second one to pull the feeder back up. This basically meant I was pulling one wire at a time.

Installing the new turn signal switch fixed the problem with only have one brake light, and it allowed the right turn signal to start working. However the left turn signal turns on solid, no flashing. I'm going to replace the flasher solenoid, and hopefully that will fix the problem.

I plan on adding a high volume water pump to try and solve my overheating issue. If I can get that done, then I'll be ready for the final stage.... body and paint.
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post #239 of 885 Old December 2nd, 2011, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Alignment is done!!! Glad to have that out of the way
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post #240 of 885 Old December 2nd, 2011, 05:53 PM Thread Starter
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Starting the Body Work

I had about six hours today, and I wanted to get my door to fender to cowl gaps all set.

I started at the bottom front of my drivers side door, this corner was not sitting flush with the rocker panel, and I figured I needed to be square with the non-adjustable parts of my car, before I started working on the adjustable parts (fenders and hood).



I opened the door up, to expose the hinge bolts, and used a jack and a block of wood to support it, since I was working by myself.



Next I marked where the hinges currently were positioned, using a sharpie (Cleans off with acetone fairly easiely).



I loosed all but one bolt on the top hinge, and all but one on the bottom hinge, then just barely cracked the last two, so that they would move if I pushed hard enough. I twisted on the door to get the bottom edge to swing in, and then tightened the two bolts while I held it all in place (I kind of had to hug the door to do all this at once)

The results were not bad:

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