'65 Coupe 351w - Page 4 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #61 of 885 Old May 13th, 2011, 10:57 PM
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Since I'm ordering a new crank anyway, what are my options as far a stroker goes? I don't really want to bore anymore (I'm at 30 over) so I think the most I can go is 408 right?
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Also, can I get any significant gains in stroke without changing the rods and pistons, or am I at my length/stroke ratio limit already?
Stroking means you must change the con rods because if you don't it will spell disaster, if you think about it, your current rod/piston setup with the new stroked crank will drop lower and then on the way up smash into your combustion chamber... and we'll be talking about whole different types of knocking! LOL
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post #62 of 885 Old May 14th, 2011, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Eagle makes a crank designed to use stock rods and 302 pistions, which would come out to 393 cubes, sounds very enticing. But I'm going to pull everything apart and check the rods real good before I decided whether I need to keep them or not anyway.
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post #63 of 885 Old May 14th, 2011, 11:03 AM
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Eagle makes a crank designed to use stock rods and 302 pistions, which would come out to 393 cubes, sounds very enticing. But I'm going to pull everything apart and check the rods real good before I decided whether I need to keep them or not anyway.
Hmmm, something has to give, so maybe they mean stock rods with modified ie shorter 302 pistons, see otherwise the piston skirts would interfere with the bottom rotating assembly. I know you can't just swap the crank and keep everything else stock - as they say otherwise everyone would be doing it, LOL.
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post #64 of 885 Old May 14th, 2011, 01:04 PM Thread Starter
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Just a reminder, this is a 351w block, so a stock 302 piston should be the equivalent of a shortened 351w piston no? Looks like a 4.030 piston with a 1.619 compression height should work.
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post #65 of 885 Old May 15th, 2011, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quick question guys, should I continue this thread with the engine tear-down rebuild, or pop it out into a new thread, then resume the build thread after the motor is rebuilt?
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post #66 of 885 Old May 16th, 2011, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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Whooo-Hooo more cubes!!!

Since a 3.85" stroke crank is cheaper than a 3.5" stroke crank, I've decided to spend a little extra money on some pistons, and upgrade to a stroker kit.

If the rods are bad when I pull them out, I will order a pre-balanced Eagle 408 stroker kit.

If the rods look good when they come out, my plan is to pick up an Eagle pre-balance crank:

Eagle Specialty Products 103513850 - Eagle Cast Steel Crankshafts - Overview - SummitRacing.com

and some Keith Black 22cc dish pistons:

Keith Black/KB Pistons KB364-030 - Keith Black KB Performance Pistons - Overview - SummitRacing.com

That would make 393 cubics with a rod ratio of 1.55 and a compression ratio around 9.1 with my 69cc heads, and 9.5 later if I upgrade to 64cc aluminum heads.
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post #67 of 885 Old May 17th, 2011, 11:17 PM
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it will be a beast for sure! good update
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post #68 of 885 Old May 21st, 2011, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Not really many updates this weekend. I pulled the motor out last night, nothing real special so I didn't take any pictures. I plan on ripping it apart to inspect it next Sunday.

Now it's time to ask the most important questions I've ever asked on this forum:

What color should I paint the block/heads/oil-pan/water-pump?

currently the block is silver and the heads are blue, everything else is bare.

I'm flip-flopping between black and red for the block, and I also think (but not sure) I want to paint the heads and water pump to match the block. I think a black scheme would hide any oily smudges and blemishes, as well as making the satin and chrome pieces pop.

What do you guys think?
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post #69 of 885 Old May 21st, 2011, 11:52 PM
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post #70 of 885 Old May 22nd, 2011, 02:24 AM
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Black would be a classic way to go and will look good, but hold the chrome and go all satin (or if you have chrome pieces hit them up with a scotch brite pad and it'll make 'em look awesome).

Its red, long, and comes with an 8 foot bed attached. Wanna come play with it?
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post #71 of 885 Old May 24th, 2011, 12:00 AM Thread Starter
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Loose End

I didn't include the steering box removal with the rest of the steering-component gutting because I wanted to wait until the motor was out to do it. To be quiet honest, I'm not sure it could be done with the drivers side header attached. I cannot see how it would be possible to get the box out without cutting the shaft or removing the header. Since I was removing the motor anyway, it was not a big deal to me.

Sorry, but all of the pictures of the procedure got deleted (My 2 year is getting more and more adept at using the iphone)

1. Remove the steering wheel.

A: Remove the horn ring (I don't know how to do this, mine has never been installed)
B: Remove the nut holding the steering wheel to the shaft (15/16)
C: Firmly grasp the steering wheel on both sides, pull with even firm pressure (Turn your head to the side while you do this, or you might wind up with a broken nose)

2. Remove the steering column

A: There are two 1/2" bolts under the instrument panel that hold the steering shaft in place, remove them
B: Disconnect the wires from the steering column.
C: Slide the steering column out over the drivers seat

3. Remove the box

A: There are three bolts inside the drivers side wheel well that hold the steering box in, remove them
C: slide the box and the shaft down toward the ground, rolling it towards the passenger side of the car.
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post #72 of 885 Old May 24th, 2011, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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My Achilles heel

Now for the part I SUCK AT!

I have to do a little body work. Hopefully not too much, because that was the main selling point of this car for me. But the front fenders were only primed and not painted, and although they have been kept garaged since being primed, 15 years of south alabama humidity have made for a little surface rust.

Oh, and just one more thing....

You have to promise not to laugh at my ghetto paint booth. I don't have much to work with during the week at my apartment. I really miss my garage, and there is not even a decent empty spot in the parking lot to work with here, so I converted my spare room.

I started by hitting the rusty areas with a medium grit sanding sponge:







I have a few deep scratches from being moved around three garages over fifteen years:



I'm hoping some high build primer will take care of these and I can avoid the bondo.

After sanding out what rust I could, I coated the affected areas with some rust-to-primer paint:





Tomorrow night I will sand it back out with the medium grit sponge, then add a layer of high build primer.
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post #73 of 885 Old May 24th, 2011, 12:21 AM
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Looking good.

Its red, long, and comes with an 8 foot bed attached. Wanna come play with it?
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post #74 of 885 Old May 24th, 2011, 12:34 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks
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post #75 of 885 Old May 24th, 2011, 04:19 AM
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Nice read so far man. keep up the good work.


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post #76 of 885 Old May 25th, 2011, 12:57 AM Thread Starter
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Today I took off most of the rust converter using the medium grit sanding sponge again:



And that is when I noticed that I had a bubble appearing right in the middle of the top portion of the fender, the most noticeable spot on the whole dang thing:



I was unable to sand it away with the medium grit sponge, so I elected to flake it away:



I feathered the edges slightly with the sanding sponge, and hoped that the high build primer would fill in the low spot:



I applied three coats of high build primer:


Then wet-sanded with 400 grit paper:



My low-spot on the top caused by the bubble was looking pretty good:



Another two coats of high-build should take care of it, but the deep scratch on the side was going to need some filler:



I picked up some bondo finishing glaze to fill in the scratch:



Then applied another two coats of high-build.

Unfortunately after my second round of wet-sanding, another bubble popped up right beside where the first one had been, once again I had to flake it away:



So at this point I've resorted to putting some finishing glaze over the larger bubble-flaked area. If it continues to bubble on the next sanding, I may have to strip the entire top of the fender.

By the way, wet-sanding indoors is very very messy:

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post #77 of 885 Old May 25th, 2011, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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The finishing glaze worked well on the flaking area, I sanded it out with some 120 grit, then applied one more thin coat of high-build primer.

After the last coat of high-build, I wet sanded with some 400 grit to get ready for final priming:



I went very light on the first coat of grey:



Then filled it in on the second coat:



After the second coat, I could still see a few deep scratches from the 120 grit I used to sand off the finishing glaze:



Luckily it sanded out pretty well with a 400 grit wet-sand.

I applied a third and final coat of grey primer and then wet-sanded with 400 grit again:



Nice and smooth and shinny!! Heck I'm so proud of that I could drive it around like that. This is by far the best looking body work I have ever done. I think the main difference is the pace. When I have a whole car to work on, I tend to rush which leads to sanding to fast, using too heavy of a grit, or getting sloppy with the feathering. Since I only brought one fender on the road with me, I had all week to do just one fender, so I didn't get in a rush.

So to any others out there reading this, the key to body work is patience, patience, patience, and pace. (I think, I'm not done yet)
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post #78 of 885 Old May 25th, 2011, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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Coloring the car

I've known for a while now, that I was going to have a budget crunch when it came time to paint the car. And that was before I found out I have to rip the motor back apart and change the crank. Now I know that some of the things I'm gong to talk about below are going to be blasphemy to some of you guys. Your going to have heart attacks, dizzy spells, and tell me how nuts I am. And the thing is, I agree with you. I've put so much blood, sweat, and money into my car, I feel like it deserves a mirror smooth glossy paint job with kick ass stripes thats makes lesser cars cry as it rolls by.

Unfortunately I don't think I could squeeze out more than $800 - $1200 for a paint job in the next two years. And I think everyone here would agree with me that I would not be happy with $800 paint job. So to that end, I've decided that if I'm going to have a paint job that I'm unhappy with and that I can't wait to get upgraded, then I should do something myself and save as much cash as possible. I've been looking at different ways of doing this for a few months now. Currently the car is painted some shade of milky-white from the windshield back. The paint was meant to have a clear coat on it, but does not yet, so it is not very shinny. To that end, my current plan has been to use some flat white vinyl to wrap my fenders, hood, and front pieces, so that the whole car will at least semi-match until I can afford a real paint job.

Initially I purchases a 60" x 60" piece of the best vinyl 3M makes:

3M US: Graphic Solutions: 3M? Scotchprint® Wrap Film Series 1080

I used that piece to cover the head-light buckets and the rear valence (when I swapped out mine for the one with exhaust knock-outs). The flat-white matches the color of my car fairly well. In bright sunlight, something looks off a little, but it doesn't scream at you, and in lower light conditions, you can hardly tell the difference. From a fitment stand-point, I have done the vinyl before on a friends car, and it you heat it slowly and wrap properly, you cannot tell the pieces are not painted, it fits very well, and the flat color is awesome.

So after the test fitting, I purchased a 60" x 10y roll, which should be enough to cover the fenders, hood and front apron.

Now that I have the body work on the fender complete, it's time to get it ready for the vinyl. You see the vinyl is not supposed to be applied primer, it needs a slicker coating to stick to. So I have to get some sort of paint on the fenders so that the vinyl can stick. Now this is when I really start brain storming. Because that 60" x 10y roll of vinyl was almost $500, so since I have to paint my fender anyway, if I can manage to paint it myself at a low enough cost, I can sell the vinyl, and use that $500 for my crank and pistons

Enter the $98 paint job, and thats $98 for a whole car, not just a front clip

A 1962 Ford Falcon Recieve A Budget Paint Job - Hot Rod Magazine

The cliff notes for those of you who don't want to have to read the whole article, is that you can use an enamel based paint, thinned with mineral spirits, and rolled on with a high density roller, to paint your car. The job is cheap, because it is labor intensive, taking 6 - 8 coats with a wet sanding every two coats, and then a buffing at the end.

Well, that is not really a problem for me, when I'm on the road, I don't have anything to do in the evenings anyway.

Okay, so I know what your thinking.. AJ, your not really going to roll your car are you?!?

Well, no, I'm not. I'm going to roll one fender of my car to see how it comes out

If it looks good, I might consider doing the whole car this way, if not, then I just slap the vinyl on top of it. At any rate, this should be interesting....
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post #79 of 885 Old May 25th, 2011, 11:31 PM Thread Starter
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First Coat

Well, I've got this beautiful shinny fender, and now I'm going to scuff it up. Because the Rust-Oleum enamel I'm using needs something to stick too. Now you are supposed to scuff it up with 320 grit, but I didn't have any 320 grit, so I used some dry 400 grit, and just added a little elbow. We'll see how well that works out.



I mixed the paint:



and Mineral spirits:



together in the roller pan:



As a note, I don't think that was a good idea, it was hard to mix up, and I don't think I got my paint thin enough. It is supposed to be about the consistency of Vitamin D milk, and mine was too thick. It is hard to judge the consistency when it is spread out so thin in the roll pan. Next time I will mix in a paper cup, then pour into the pan

I rolled on the first coat, and I knew it was too thick. There was already a visible orange peel, and I didn't have any bubbles or runs, which I should have had if the mixture was thin enough. Not that it is the end of the world, it just means I'll have to spend more time with my first round of wet-sanding.



Kinda scary looking isn't it. I'm told that this is normal. It should take 2 - 3 coats before you start to see what looks like full coverage.

This is going to be a big change now. Because primer dries to re-coat in 10 minutes and dries to sand in 30 minutes. Enamel dries to re-coat or sand in 24 hours, which means it will be tomorrow night before I can re-coat (which will only take 10 minutes) and then Friday night before I can wet sand. And since I'm going home friday, it might be next Monday before I get around to sanding it (or I might take it back home with me )
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post #80 of 885 Old May 27th, 2011, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ajzride View Post
Nice and smooth and shinny!! Heck I'm so proud of that I could drive it around like that. This is by far the best looking body work I have ever done. I think the main difference is the pace. When I have a whole car to work on, I tend to rush which leads to sanding to fast, using too heavy of a grit, or getting sloppy with the feathering. Since I only brought one fender on the road with me, I had all week to do just one fender, so I didn't get in a rush.

So to any others out there reading this, the key to body work is patience, patience, patience, and pace. (I think, I'm not done yet)
Fantastic job, and I couldn't agree more with your advice, divide and conquer!
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