'65 Coupe 351w - Page 8 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #141 of 885 Old June 20th, 2011, 03:39 PM
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Sorry about all of your troubles but I do appreciate you documenting them as I will be rebuilding an engine shortly once I find my new project.
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post #142 of 885 Old June 20th, 2011, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry about all of your troubles but I do appreciate you documenting them as I will be rebuilding an engine shortly once I find my new project.
Better to learn from someone else's mistakes than your own
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post #143 of 885 Old June 21st, 2011, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Gas Pedal

Last night was a total loss, spent the whole thing looking for a pilot bearing. I found a pilot bearing today, but I've decided to wait until the weekend to drop the motor in. I don't want to get in a hurry and screw something else up. Getting in a hurry is what got me in the position to start with. So I'm going to try and knock out some punch list items during the week, and get to the motor on Friday. Besides, I need to let the bearing chill in the freezer some to aid in the install.

I decided I would install my new gas pedal as a nice kickoff to my little things list. I had been using throttle cable and a pedal from a fox body mustang that was sitting in the car when I bought. While I was happy with the cable part of the setup, the fox pedal was in bad shape, and it didn't fit real well in the footwell. I ordered a complete V6 to V8 conversion kit from Mustangs Plus, which came with the foot pedal, the linkage that mounts to the firewall, and the adjustment linkage that connects to the pedal linkage to the carb.

It's a good thing I decided to do a practice assembly on the table, because if I had tried to figure this thing out standing on my head under the steering wheel, I might have gone of the reservation, I didn't think it was possible to be so complicated. The package I was mailed had 3 bags. The first included the linkage that mounts to the firewall. The second included the pedal with a funny looking bolt (more on that in a minute) and a spring. Third included the linkage from the carb to the pedal, along with a bushing, and cotter pin assembly.

The carb to pedal linkage/bushing/cotter pin was very simple, I set it all in place in under 2 minutes, then took it back apart until the motor is in place. The pedal on the other hand, had me scratching my head. The bolt that came with the pedal is stepped. If you think of it left to right, with left being 0% and right being 100%, the first 20% is very thin and smooth, 20% to 40% it is slightly larger and smooth, 40% - 80% section is bigger and threaded, and 80% to 100 % is even larger and smooth:



The pedal has a U-Shaped bracket on the back, with a hole on one side this is clearly for the first ten percent, and a hole on the other that is clearly for the last 10%, its what goes in the middle that kept confusing me. The linkage is not threaded, and the threaded section was to large to go into the linkage:



The only way it would fit together was like so:



But there was nothing holding it together, and the hole in the linkage was much larger than the section of the bolt it was sitting on. Even if I had managed to secure the bolt somehow, the pedal was going to wobble around without a bushing through it. I tried very hard to thread the bolt into the linkage, thinking maybe the threads were there and just hidden by a thick coat of paint, but there were definitely no threads there.

At this point I took to goole to search for images of a 1965 Mustang accelerator picture. There isn't much out there, but I did find two pictures that showed the underside of the pedal, and both of them pictured a nut on the threaded section. They also showed the linkage sitting on the last 10% of the bolt (the larges smooth section) which made perfect sense based on how I thought it should work.

All of this led me to a few possibilities:

A) I was shipped the wrong linkage
B) I was shipped the wrong pedal (which seemed to be missing a nut, whatever car it is supposed to go in)

There is really no way that I see to put the two parts I had together. If this part had been shipped out of Atlanta and I could have gotten a replacement in a day or two, I probably would have called them up and gotten an new on on the way. But since it shipped for Cali, and would take a whole week to replace, I decided it was time to re-engineer what I had. I mean why not? there isn't much else on this car I haven't had to hack up.

I took the linkage out into the garage and secured it in the vise, and went to town with my trusty Dewalt. Turns out, the linkage is made from some sturdy metal, and after killing a fresh battery on the Dewalt without getting even halfway through, I decided it was time for an upgrade. I broke out the corded 1/2" hammer craftsman (sorry guys, no pictures, I'm laying off the tool porn). With the hammer setting on high, I knocked through the last half in about two minutes:



I then ran up to ACE for a nut to fit my threads (1/4" 28 thread pitch):



I then spent the next hour looking up pictures of how to install the spring, and trying two dozen different positions. Finally on a fatal attempt, the spring flew off behind the desk somewhere and I couldn't find it. Since I didn't know of many people who ever got there's to stay in place anyway, I decided to punt for now and try to think of a better solution down the road.
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post #144 of 885 Old June 21st, 2011, 02:09 AM Thread Starter
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More Gas Pedal

With everything fitted together like I wanted it, I had to rip all back apart. You can't feed the linkage through firewall with the pedal on, so now that I knew how it went together, I had to go try it again while standing on my head under the steering wheel and changing ancient Aztec rain summons.

The linkage bolts to the firewall using 3 1/4 bolts:



After I had thread the linkage through and gotten the bolts in place, I put a little tape on them to hold them against the firewall while I started the nuts on the inside. Once I had gotten the nuts run down finger tight, I taped a wrench to the firewall (it doesn't take much) to hold the bolts still while I went back under the dash to tighten the nuts down:





Now for the fun part, installing the pedal and bolt under the dash. I knew it was going to be bad, but it was a little worse than I thought. I wasted the first few minutes trying to actually see what I was doing. I'll give you some advice, don't bother. By time you get your head in a position to see the bottom of the pedal, you're so close that you can't focus, it will really give you a headache. After I decided to just go by feel, it only took me three or four minutes to get it all finger tight, then another two or three to tighten it up with the wrenches. Don't get it too tight, or the pedal will be really stiff.



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post #145 of 885 Old June 21st, 2011, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
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Checking some clearances

I wanted to wait until I had the motor in to finish working on my rack and pinion. I feared that I might have to make some adapters and drop my steering linkage down an inch or so to clear my headers. Since it is going to be this weekend before I put the motor in, I didn't want to wait that long to work on the rack and pinion. I decided I could install the headers, measure where they will sit on the motor, and use some braces to hold them in place while I checked for stuff to clear.

In case you've never seen them, Headers go through a collector into a flange:



That flange sits around the corresponding flange on the exhaust pipe:



And for some reason I forgot to take a picture of them coupled, but it will be pretty clear once you get down there.

Next I measured the distance from my motor mount to my exhaust manifold bolt holes (10&1/4"):



Turned out a 2x4 and a quart of oil made for just the right height to brace the header in place:



As you can see in the picture, I've got almost 6 inches of clearance between the rack and my headers. The rack has a drastically smaller footprint than the old gearbox and control valve had.





Although I couldn't find anything to hold it in place while I took a picture for you guys, I also held the Z-bar approximately where I think it will sit, and it appears to clear the u-joints on the steering shaft.
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post #146 of 885 Old June 21st, 2011, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
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Rack and Pinion

I spent the rest of the night adjusting the rack and pinion to get things aligned as best as I could by eye. If you guys want to check it out, you can here:

https://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums...ck-pinion.html

Otherwise, here is the final result:



No worked planned for tomorrow, going to hang out with my little girl. Wednesday I plan to get back on the fender, try and get at least something painted this week.
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post #147 of 885 Old June 24th, 2011, 01:56 AM Thread Starter
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Paint paint paint

It's been a few weeks since I worked on any paint, but the last thing I tried was using a mixture of the rolled on paint, and spraying some on out of a rattle can. I made a quick comment to the effect that spraying didn't work out too well for me. After further inspection, I don't think the spray was the issue. I took the fender outside into the sunlight, and I think my problem has been that I wasn't sanding all of my orange peel out along the way. The lighting in the room I was working is wasn't so great, and I just flat out didn't sand it down far enough, for 6 coats. Basically my only option at this point was to sand it back down far enough to get the orange peel out. So I got the 400 grit back out, and attacked the fender with vigor, until I was back to primer in any spot that had a trace of orange peel on it:



Last Sunday while I was browsing through the paper, I saw something that caught my eye, Harbor Freight (my new favorite store) had an HVLP paint gun on sale for $9.99. I know what your thinking, I can't paint a car with a $10 paint gun. You're probably right. But you told me I couldn't roll paint on a mustang either, and I didn't listen to you then, so why would I listen to you know. To be fair, I still think you CAN roll paint on a mustang, I've just decided it is too much work for ME to do. So I'm going to try plan b... okay maybe c.

So here she is, my newest toy in all her LSU (bleeeeck) purple splendor:





The directions said to disassemble and wipe down with mineral spirits before first use. I'm glad I did, because this is what I wiped off:



While spraying the paint should create less orange peel than rolling, it is still necessary to thin the rust-oleum before applying it. My initial mix of mineral spirits to paint looked like this:



But that resulted in a mixture that was too thin for my taste (it was barely thicker than water)

So keeping the same amount of thinner, I kept adding paint until I got to something about the consistency of good cold orange juice:



Right before I applied the spray, I wiped the entire fender with a tack (I'm outside now)



And then went to town:



Once I figure out exactly how to get the gun tuned for spraying the enamel, I'll take some pictures and make some notes, right now it is all experimental.
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post #148 of 885 Old June 24th, 2011, 02:05 AM Thread Starter
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Paint paint paint

I've got to say, I was really blown away by the results of the paint. This HVLP gun is really really cool. The paint comes out almost like a fog, its nearly impossible to get too much and cause runs, and since the paint is thinned, the orange peel sorta self levels itself to being no-exisistent. Other than the bugs (which seem to be attracted to wet paint like a magnet), the fender would be ready to go on the car with a second coat of paint, it looked that good.

DISCLAIMER: I'm working with flat paint, because I think it looks cool, I imagine this would be much trickier and less forgiving with a gloss paint.









The spots that got sanded back to red primer definitely need another coat, but I think that would do the trick.

So looking back, I was going to need 8 coats of rolled on paint, with 30 minutes of sanding between every other coat, thats a total of 2 hours of sanding an about an hour of painting spread out over 9 days, just for one fender. An entire car would take about 10x that many hours, although you could cram it all into 9 days still.

Using an HVLP gun, looks like 1 fender could be done in 2 coats, with about 15 minutes of sanding, over 2 days. I like that math alot better.
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post #149 of 885 Old June 24th, 2011, 02:15 AM Thread Starter
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Coat 2

Today I had to sand the bugs out, only one spot was really visible after I got done sanding. A flying ant had gotten buried pretty deep right in the crease between the wheel flare and shoulder line:





Last night I had sprayed in the driveway, and had a major issue with bugs, although only one had to be sanded all the way out, there were probably two dozen stuck in the paint. Tonight I decided to spray in the garage, and use a box fan blowing air across the paint to try and keep the bugs out. Since I didn't have an SCBA with me today, I had to leave the garage door open, and it was mostly a wasted effort. The second coat of paint covered up my thin spots, but I got just as many bugs tonight as I did yesterday.

Other than the bugs, the only other issue I had tonight was with some splatter of some kind coming through the gun and onto the fender edge:



This was probably caused by not straining my paint before pouring it into the gun.

I've decided that pictures don't really do the paint job justice (or disservice if they are bad), but I'm going to keep posting them for posterity sake. The paint looks really great, it is exactly what I imagined when I started thinking about a flat white color scheme:



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post #150 of 885 Old June 24th, 2011, 02:19 AM Thread Starter
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Paint paint paint

So far I have less than 1 hour invested in the HVLP paint, and I've already seen enough satisfactory results to promote the idea form the experimental stage, to the preliminary stage. Tomorrow I plan to make a trip to the paint store to pick up some strainers (for the paint) and air dryers (for the compressor). I will rig up a temporary paint booth in the shed using some plastic sheeting, and grab a SCBA from work, so that I can paint in a bug free area, and see what kind of results I can get. I will also spend a little more time fine tuning the gun to get the right air pressure/paint volume ratio for the best finish. I'll try to document the actual paint process in a little more detail after that.
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post #151 of 885 Old June 24th, 2011, 02:35 AM Thread Starter
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pontius pilate bearing

I spent 3 days looking for a pilot bearing, then when I finally found it, I just threw it in the freezer and forgot about it for two days. The good news is that when I took it out of the freezer, it was nice and cold, you could even see the frost on it:



Being good and cold, it was shrunk up pretty well, and it tapped right it with very minimal effort:



With the pilot bearing installed, it was time to put on the flywheel. First I wedged a socket onto the crank pulley to keep the motor from rotating while I was trying to tighten the bolts:



And I also checked my timing marks just for good measure:



There are six crank to flywheel bolts, but they are not spaced evenly around the crank, they are in two groups of 3. You have to rotate the flywheel around the crank until you get all six bolt holes to line up. This can be rather difficult with only one person, because the flywheel weighs over 30 pounds. Once you do get the bolt holes lined up, start two of them by finger to hold the flywheel in place, then apply loc-tite to the other four and finger tighten them. Remove the first two, apply loc-tite, and then torque all six bolts. I torqued them in two sets, first to 50 lbs, then to 95 lbs. Use the same torque sequence you would use for a six lug wheel.

After the flywheel comes the clutch disc, which you need to hold in place using a clutch alignment tool. If your clutch didn't come with one, they are about $3 at the local parts store:



While the little black stick holds the clutch disc in, put the pressure plate in place and bolt it up. Like the flywheel it is orientation specific, you will have to rotate it to get all of the bolt holes to line up. Apply some loc-tite and torque to 35 lbs.



After the pressure plate, you can stick on the bell housing. It is probably easier to get the motor in the car without the bell housing on, but since I've never had a bell housing (i've only done two btw) that I didn't have to hammer on, I would rather install it on the bench. I couldn't find torque settings for bell housing bolts, so I just got on them like a gorilla and hoped they didn't break... or maybe just torque them to 75 lbs.



And I know no one is ever going to see my bell housing, but I painted it black anyway:

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post #152 of 885 Old June 24th, 2011, 02:50 AM Thread Starter
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Remember that pesky shifter

Having invested close to 40 hours in trying to fix my shifter (doesn't like to come out of reverse) I decided to cave in and just buy a new one:



I left on as much plastic wrap as possible, just in case it didn't fix my problem and I wanted to send it back:



The shifter I bought is supposed to be the exact same model as the one that came with the transmission, all of the linkage and mounting holes are supposed to line up. As you can see in the picture above, it mounted just fine. The reverse and 1-2 linkage hooked up with no issues:



However hooking up the 3-4 linkage was a little more problematic:



The linkage was sitting wide of the shifter due to rubbing back up near the reverse linkage arm:



There was also some binding of all three linkage rots between the 1-2 arm and the shifter:



At this point I removed the new shifter and installed the old one to see if it had a similar problem. While the linkage was tight on the old one, it didn't bind like the new one.

I put the new shift back on and marked where the rubbing was taking place:



And was debating whether I wanted to try and grind a little bit off of the rod, or off of the reverse arm tip to create some clearance. The problem was that grinding a little off was only going to fix my rubbing at the reverse arm, it was not going to fix my linkage binding closer to the shifter. I realized what I needed to do was adjust the angle of the 3-4 shift linkage. Looking at it closely, I decided it had probably been damaged in a wreck or engine remove incident at one time. I looked at several ways of trying to bed the linkage, but it was very very sturdy, and I was looking at bending on a small angle. Short of a vice, a torch, and some channel locks (two of which I did not have) I couldn't figure out how to bend it. I came to the realization, that I could get away without bending the bar, if I could create a small angle on it, by placing a washer between the arm and transmission. I began to plunder around the garage for a while looking for a suitable washer, but anything I found that was large enough in diameter to work, was too thick to allow the arm to grab lever. In the end, I wound up using some old sheet metal to make a washer:



Actually, one sheet metal washer was too thin, so I made two. After adding two layers of sheet metal, I got an acceptable amount of clearance on the shift linkage:



Since you can't install the transmission with the shifter on, I used some zip ties to lock the linkage in place so that the lengths wouldn't get out of adjustment when I removed the shifter:

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post #153 of 885 Old June 25th, 2011, 03:08 AM
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Wow, very nicely laid out, I love it, subscribing... have a friend who just inherited a 65 mustang and he is wanting to rip out the stock motor and put in a stroked 351... this thread will be invaluable... thank you sir!
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post #154 of 885 Old June 25th, 2011, 04:06 AM Thread Starter
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Long Long Day

It's late, and I'm exhausted. I put in 17 hours on the car today. The first twelve were on body work. The front fenders, headlight buckets, and apron will all get finished tomorrow. The last 5 hours were on the motor. i got in in the car tonight, and I did get it to run for a few moments, but the results were non-satisfactory enough to allow me to have my victory cigar. I know I have a massive exhaust leak to track down, and I have either fuel or timing issues. I will do a nice walk through of everything later this weekend, but for now here are a few pics of the motor in the car, and a few videos of the test fires for your amusement. WARNING THE VIDEOS MAY GET LOUD





I think the problem in the first video is the lifters not being pumped up.


I think I had too much gas in it once the lifters finally pumped up.


You can really hear the exhaust leak, once I get it fixed, maybe I can hear well enough to figure out what the other problems are.

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post #155 of 885 Old June 25th, 2011, 04:07 AM Thread Starter
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Wow, very nicely laid out, I love it, subscribing... have a friend who just inherited a 65 mustang and he is wanting to rip out the stock motor and put in a stroked 351... this thread will be invaluable... thank you sir!
Thank You!!
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post #156 of 885 Old June 26th, 2011, 12:22 AM
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dang you been busy great to see all the progress, now time to go back and read up on it
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post #157 of 885 Old June 26th, 2011, 01:30 AM Thread Starter
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dang you been busy great to see all the progress, now time to go back and read up on it
I told you I shipped my wife to Asia so I could get something done on the car. Do you have any idea how expensive that is?!? No way I'm going to waste it. I still have 25 hours of work to document, hopefully that will happen tomorrow.
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post #158 of 885 Old June 26th, 2011, 01:39 AM
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Well shoot, this pic explains the 17 hour days and how much you got done, you move at the speed of light, too fast for the camera, lol
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post #159 of 885 Old June 26th, 2011, 01:45 AM
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Last Sunday while I was browsing through the paper, I saw something that caught my eye, Harbor Freight (my new favorite store) had an HVLP paint gun on sale for $9.99.
Harbor Freight Purple Spray Gun, standard issue for every shade tree mechanic [yes got one]. And yes you can paint a car with it, many have done it. Get one for primer (use the bigger nozzle) get one for paint (smaller nozzle) and go to town. Have you discovered HF's 20% off coupons in every car and cycle magazine out there, yes it could have been 20% off of the $9.99 how insane is that.
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post #160 of 885 Old June 26th, 2011, 01:51 AM
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...I turned it on low and let it sit for 15 minutes, my meat thermometer said 208F, which is close enough to 200 for government work:
damn it man, you made my soda go shootin out of my nose with that comment
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