Need (SC) LEO advice-Reckless Driving Ticket - Page 3 - Forums at Modded Mustangs
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post #41 of 50 Old June 7th, 2013, 02:15 AM
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No offense but this is terrible advice. Its very surprising for an officer none the less.

Most lawyers provide free consultation and what you are paying for is who they know. 9 times out of 10 you won't even see a court room because they will set up a cheap plea deal. Even if you do you aren't going to sit in a court room for hours with a lawyer because cases with representation are moved up to the top of the docket. So you will be in there for 15 minutes tops... Yes, they do cost money but in this case any lawyer worthy hiring will reduce it to a simple misdemeanor speed which will take it from a $500 ticket to a $100 ticket not to mention will keep your rates from going up on your insurance.

As for the comparison to hiding behind a lawyer is downright retarded. Do you pay someone to do your taxes for you? Manage your investments? Cook your food at a restaurant? Pay doctors to do surgery?

Of course you do... Because these people are educated and trained to do that job better than you are capable of doing so in exchange for them doing a better job than you are capable you pay them. Tis is the whole reason people specialize in different fields. Otherwise we would all just do general labor and do everything ourselves. I mean would you expect police officers to fight fires? No because firefighters specialize in that field.
1FF it seems that you generally have some type of issue with the advice I give. Read through the thread and take a look at post #37. It seems like maybe my advice helped, I don't know, maybe I'm retarded though or offering bad advice. I'm not going to argue Attorney Costs/Courtroom Procedure/Police Procedure/Legal Defense with you. I do this shit for a living and have been doing it for a while. Unless you have some type of qualifications I don't know about, I don't see how your advice is valid in this case.

I will tell you straight up, if you are guilty of a traffic offense and you hide behind an Attorney, you are nothing more than a Little Pussy in my mind. Be accountable for your actions. I would have cut the OP a break, that is me. If the Officer is within the confines of the law to write the OP a ticket, then so be it. If you read my earlier advice asking the OP to speak with the Officer before blowing a bunch of money on a guy wearing a suit, carrying a briefcase, it looks like it is going to work out for the OP, which is what I wanted. I don't want to see a 17 year old kid get jammed up for spinning the tires.

Owning up to your mistakes or errors in judgement is the only way to live my man. This wasn't an involved case, and it would be very easy to prove. Lawyers have a place, one being if you are Not Guilty, or another being if the case is too complex for you to understand on your own. Spinning the tires is pretty simple dude, you either did it or you didn't.

In the post you jumped on I was talking to another MM member who also thought my advice was retarded. This member, "always" hired an Attorney to get him off his charges. It sounds like this member wasted a lot of money that could have been spent on mods.

DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE, NOT A RIGHT. There is a serious lack of accountability in this country. I'm not sure if you have kids, but I will pose a scenerion to you. You live on a quiet street and your young children ride there bikes out in front of your house. A young driver pulls up in a muscle car, bakes the tires, and proceeds to take off at a high rate of speed. You children are scared, crying etc. The driver gets pulled over and ticketed. You go to the trial as a witness. The driver hires an Attorney and sits at the defendant table silently. The Lawyer speaks for him trying to punch holes in a pretty cut and dried case. Maybe he gets him off, maybe he doesn't, you are going to be livid seeing him sit there. On the flip side the driver accepts responsibility on his own for his actions, comes over and apologizes to you and your family and takes his punishment like a man. You are more apt to respect that individual, and that individual is more likely to get the picture and not do it again.
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post #42 of 50 Old June 7th, 2013, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
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1FF it seems that you generally have some type of issue with the advice I give. Read through the post and take a look at post #37. I'm not going to argue Attorney Costs/Courtroom Procedure/Police Procedure/Legal Defense with you. I do this shit for a living and have been doing it for a while. Unless you have some type of qualifications I don't know about, I don't see how your advice is valid in this case.

I will tell you straight up, if you are guilty of a traffic offense and you hide behind an Attorney, you are nothing more than a Little Pussy in my mind. Be accountable for your actions. I would have cut the OP a break, that is me. If the Officer is within the confines of the law to write the OP a ticket, then so be it. If you read my earlier advice asking the OP to speak with the Officer before blowing a bunch of money on a guy wearing a suit, carrying a briefcase, it looks like it is going to work out for the OP, which is what I wanted. I don't want to see a 17 year old kid get jammed up for spinning the tires.

Owning up to your mistakes or errors in judgement is the only way to live my man. This wasn't an involved case, and it would be very easy to prove. Lawyers have a place, one being if you are Not Guilty, or another being if the case is too complex for you to understand on your own. Spinning the tires is pretty simple dude, you either did it or you didn't.

In the post you jumped on I was talking to another MM member who also thought my advice was retarded. This member, "always" hired an Attorney to get him off his charges. It sounds like this member wasted a lot of money that could have been spent on mods.

DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE, NOT A RIGHT.
Yep, exactly. Thanks for your advice, it really worked out for the best. Even though unintentional, I DID spin the tires, and that IS still "illegal". It was actually pretty nice to talk to the officer for a bit. He was just doing his job.. He loves Stangs just like the rest of us, and even told me that he was just doing what he was obligated to do- there isn't much he can do to cut me a break on the side of the interstate. All-in-all, this was a good learning experience for me. I don't mind "donating" the $445, because it is STILL cheaper than an attorney, AND the cost of my insurance skyrocketing up. Hell, I might have even made a new friend that's on the police force.


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post #43 of 50 Old June 7th, 2013, 02:39 AM
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No problem man, I'm glad it is going to work out for you. I would bet if they asked for a donation it would be less than that. Hell you could offer to pick up some brass at the range, or wax some cruisers instead of a monetary payment, we do that stuff a lot to help guys out.
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post #44 of 50 Old June 7th, 2013, 08:57 AM
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My reckless driving ticket was $90.00 that was about 1.5 years ago.

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post #45 of 50 Old June 7th, 2013, 10:50 AM
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^ lol how old are you?
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post #46 of 50 Old June 7th, 2013, 12:34 PM
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1FF it seems that you generally have some type of issue with the advice I give. Read through the thread and take a look at post #37. It seems like maybe my advice helped, I don't know, maybe I'm retarded though or offering bad advice. I'm not going to argue Attorney Costs/Courtroom Procedure/Police Procedure/Legal Defense with you. I do this shit for a living and have been doing it for a while. Unless you have some type of qualifications I don't know about, I don't see how your advice is valid in this case.

I will tell you straight up, if you are guilty of a traffic offense and you hide behind an Attorney, you are nothing more than a Little Pussy in my mind. Be accountable for your actions. I would have cut the OP a break, that is me. If the Officer is within the confines of the law to write the OP a ticket, then so be it. If you read my earlier advice asking the OP to speak with the Officer before blowing a bunch of money on a guy wearing a suit, carrying a briefcase, it looks like it is going to work out for the OP, which is what I wanted. I don't want to see a 17 year old kid get jammed up for spinning the tires.

Owning up to your mistakes or errors in judgement is the only way to live my man. This wasn't an involved case, and it would be very easy to prove. Lawyers have a place, one being if you are Not Guilty, or another being if the case is too complex for you to understand on your own. Spinning the tires is pretty simple dude, you either did it or you didn't.

In the post you jumped on I was talking to another MM member who also thought my advice was retarded. This member, "always" hired an Attorney to get him off his charges. It sounds like this member wasted a lot of money that could have been spent on mods.

DRIVING IS A PRIVILEGE, NOT A RIGHT. There is a serious lack of accountability in this country. I'm not sure if you have kids, but I will pose a scenerion to you. You live on a quiet street and your young children ride there bikes out in front of your house. A young driver pulls up in a muscle car, bakes the tires, and proceeds to take off at a high rate of speed. You children are scared, crying etc. The driver gets pulled over and ticketed. You go to the trial as a witness. The driver hires an Attorney and sits at the defendant table silently. The Lawyer speaks for him trying to punch holes in a pretty cut and dried case. Maybe he gets him off, maybe he doesn't, you are going to be livid seeing him sit there. On the flip side the driver accepts responsibility on his own for his actions, comes over and apologizes to you and your family and takes his punishment like a man. You are more apt to respect that individual, and that individual is more likely to get the picture and not do it again.
In this particular case I do have an issue with your advice. Advising anyone facing more than a minor traffic violation ( reckless driving. 6pts, $500fine, and sky rocking insurance rates is not minor ) to not pursue expert advice from a lawyer is just wrong. Sure, he did luck out in this case and had an officer willing to accept a bribe in exchange for wiping but that is awfully crooked. You can attempt to defend that action any way you want but if the officer feels he might have over exaggerated the ticket then it should be wiped and if he feels it wasn't than it should stand. This should never be decided based upon how much someone donate to the precinct. In fact, if it were me I would go to court with that info and have the ticket dismissed without paying a penny ( with the help of a lawyer ).

My advice comes from personal experience. I deal with lawyers on a monthly basis working for in investment firm, I have gotten in my fair share of trouble growing up, and have dated multiple lawyers. By no means am I an expert but I'm educated beyond the average American because of my experiences.

I do agree with you that if you lawyer up over minor traffic offenses (ie speeding, passing in a double yellow, running a stop sign/red light) it is less than honorable and you should just pay your fine, take your slap on the wrist, and learn your lesson but that isn't the case for this particular example.

Is this case that simple? Was he driving recklessly? Was it intentional? It was bad enough for the officer to track him down miles from the scene but minor enough that he was let go and willing to dismiss it later. That hardly seem plain or simple. There are plenty of argument to be made from that and those who are unfamiliar with the law might not know their options, which is why you hire a professional to represent you.

I 100% agree with your last paragraph. Driving is a privilege and there is a serious lack of accountability by people on the streets. I bitch all the time about this and joke around with my friends asking if there is even a driving test anymore because it seems at least half the drivers on the road aren't familiar with the proper procedure for operating a motor vehicle (which I notice even more so being in a motorcycle). On top of that you have the tens of millions of people who feel they don't need to be insured because they can't afford it and my response is just what you said, driving is a privilege and if you can't meet the requirements the you don't deserve to drive.

As for your scenario, if you are caught speeding through a residential zone you deserve the fine and should accept the consequences of your actions. I already stated above that I agree with that.
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post #47 of 50 Old June 7th, 2013, 01:38 PM
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So your background is dealing with Attorney's on a monthy basis at a financial firm, and that you have dated a few Attorney's? I work the road 50+ hours per week, stop cars, complete criminal investigations, make arrests, prepare reports that will be closely scrutanized by Attorney's, and have been doing so for many years......I feel I'm pretty qualified to help this member out.

Another question I have for you is have you ever prepared a motor vehicle or criminal case? Have you ever sat on a witness stand while being questioned by a defense Attorney? Have you ever won or lost a motor vehicle or criminal case to a defense Attorney? I have done all of the above for years. Another reason I am qualified to give advice. When I prepare a case and sit on the stand, I 99% of the time know what the Attorney is going to ask before he asks it. I run through the case in my mind as I prepare.

The top DWI Attorney in the area has come to our Police Department on two occasions to speak on how we should write a good DWI report and what he looks at to punch holes in our cases. Pretty cool in my mind.

You don't need an EXPERT to look at this case. This case is simple. There is not normally a culpable state of mind required in the prosecution of a Reckless Driving, and if it is a requirement in your area it is one of the lower culpable states of mind. The culpable states of mind are: Knowingly, Purposely, Recklessly, and Negligently. You don't have to knowingly, purposely, or "intentionally" operate your vehicle recklessly to get convicted, you just have to do it. If your defense is that the act was not intentional, and this was a valid defense, it would carry over to all offenses. It would go something like this, "the motorist didn't intentionally run the stop light, speed, pass on a double yellow" etc. That defense I would say by your own words is "retarded". And I will tell you from experience, crossing over the double yellow line is a lot more dangerous then spinning the tires. You say the Officer tracked him down miles from the scene. The OP didn't say it was miles, only that it was in another County. We have Town/City lines. If a motorist violates a traffic law in my Town then crosses over the City or Town line, I am authorized to stop them in the other City or Town and address the Violation. I highly doubt the Officer tracked the OP down miles into another County. The violation probably happened near the County line and the Officer wasn't able to get him stopped until he crossed over. Again a weak defense.

I suggested to the OP that he speak with the Officer or Prosecutor, PRIOR to seeking an Attorney. Now that he did and found out that the Officer is a decent guy willing to work with him, in your opinion the Officer offered him a BRIBE or is CROOKED. That is "retarded" also. Do you think the Officer is getting any portion of the donation? I doubt when the OP meets with the Chief he will be asking for any donation amount near the fine amount. Even if he does, is it more logical to give the amount of fine to a Lawyer so they can tool around in a BMW, or would you rather it go to the local Police Department for Drug programs etc?

You said that do to the crooked manner the deal went down that the Officer over exaggerated the stop. How was it over exaggerated? Did the Officer see the OP break the car loose? The OP admits to doing that whether or not it was do to the rain. Then you are going to go before a Judge and basically say that the Officer offered you a bribe by the willingness to cut you a break because you spoke with him, he spoke to your parents, you spoke to the Chief, and made a donation to the PD to avoid a fine. The Judge is going to think you are an idiot. Don't forget Judges see these Officers regularly in court and hear their cases. The Judge is going to know if the Officer is a hard ass or not, trust me. But of course you say you are not going to "pay a penny" but then right after say you would approach the Judge with this bribe (with the help of a lawyer). That doesn't make much sense unless you had one of the Lawyers you dated represent you for free, because all other Lawyers are going to cost money.

I have had people try to give me money for assisting them. I tell them I can't take money, and say they can make a donation to the Police Relief Association.

I have a Bachelor's degree in Business Management/Finance. You won't see me in here giving members financial advice. "By no means am I an expert but I'm educated beyond the average American because of my experiences."

See what I'm saying?
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post #48 of 50 Old June 7th, 2013, 01:57 PM
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Did you even read what I wrote? Lol

I said I am pretty much in agreement with everything you wrote except this particular case. You also need to go back and read the OPs original post because you are making a lot of assumptions that are wrong according to his original statement. I would also recommend rereading what you wrote in previous posts because you are contradicting what you have said a bit. You may have meant something different in previous posts but its not what was said.
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post #49 of 50 Old June 7th, 2013, 02:12 PM
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I feel bad for you. My little v6 did a complete 360 on a 25 mph turn in the rain one day. Granted, it was a "slick when wet" road... but still. I know it sounds like I was speeding, but, though I have before, this time I wasn't. It can happen to anyone in a Mustang and those penalties are far too harsh.


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post #50 of 50 Old June 7th, 2013, 02:27 PM
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Jeez, Lucky it is raining out and I'm stuck inside.

Give me a minute to formulate this response, I am going through the posts.

ORIGINAL POST BY OP

I'm hoping to get some input here. Earlier today, I was leaving a parking lot for a gas station and lost traction. There was a heavy downpour of rain, and the road in that area is sloped downward. When I shifted into second, the rear end lost traction and I got pretty sideways. I've had it happen before, so I stayed calm and kept it on the road and in my lane. I pulled onto an interstate on-ramp, and proceeded to head to my destination. A minute or two later(PROBABLY SEEMED LIKE THAT), he comes FLYING up on me with his lights on. By this time, I was out of town limits, and was in a different county all together. I pulled right over, and he walked up to me and says "Do you know why I pulled you over?". I responded "I have a pretty good idea why, sir".




FOXFIVE'S FIRST RESPONSE


The ticket seems a bit extreme for the circumstances. If you had a clean record I would have cut you a break and had a chat with your parents about the operation of the vehicle. I would suggest you try to speak with the officer or the prosecutor and see if they will reduce it. Believe it or not it shows a lot of balls and responsibility to come to a police department after a ticket to speak with the officer. I respect a person when they do that. The officer may have been short with you on the stop, but I'm sure his attitude will change if you show up to speak with him. I think that is your only choice here. As far as being stopped in another County, the violation happened in the officers jurisdiction so he is good to go to stop you in my opinion.

OP'S RESPONSE

UPDATE: (skip to second paragraph if you just want to know what we worked out)

I saw the officer posted up looking for traffic violations near the spot where this occurred. He didn't trip my radar detector, so I figured it would be a good time to talk to him. I ripped the detector off the windshield after I got gas, and parked the car. Walked over, shook his hand, and talked to him for a while. Turns out to be a cool guy, and be loves Mustangs as well.

Long story short, he's going to work with me on it. He wants to talk to my dad, and wants me to talk with the chief. If all goes well, the ticket will be dropped in exchange for a donation to the police department of a similar amount of the ticket.

Still gonna have to pay up, but it's cheaper than getting a lawyer, won't be on my record, and best of all, my insurance won't sky rocket.

Thanks for all the helpful advice guys!

ANOTHER RESPONSE FROM THE OP

Yep, exactly. Thanks for your advice, it really worked out for the best. Even though unintentional, I DID spin the tires, and that IS still "illegal". It was actually pretty nice to talk to the officer for a bit. He was just doing his job.. He loves Stangs just like the rest of us, and even told me that he was just doing what he was obligated to do- there isn't much he can do to cut me a break on the side of the interstate. All-in-all, this was a good learning experience for me. I don't mind "donating" the $445, because it is STILL cheaper than an attorney, AND the cost of my insurance skyrocketing up. Hell, I might have even made a new friend that's on the police force.

With the connection he made, the OP can do some ride-a-longs and maybe even take a career in Law Enforcement.

RESPONSE FROM 1FF

In this particular case I do have an issue with your advice. Advising anyone facing more than a minor traffic violation ( reckless driving. 6pts, $500fine, and sky rocking insurance rates is not minor ) to not pursue expert advice from a lawyer is just wrong. Sure, he did luck out in this case and had an officer willing to accept a bribe in exchange for wiping but that is awfully crooked. You can attempt to defend that action any way you want but if the officer feels he might have over exaggerated the ticket then it should be wiped and if he feels it wasn't than it should stand. This should never be decided based upon how much someone donate to the precinct. In fact, if it were me I would go to court with that info and have the ticket dismissed without paying a penny ( with the help of a lawyer ). .........There is not bigger contradiction then the last colored statement.

My advice was given to the OP for this specific case. If the circumstances were different, I may have suggested an Attorney. The fact of the matter, spinning the tires isn't a major motor vehicle offense in my mind. Nobody got hurt. In my state it is a violation, it could be bumped to a reckless depending on the circumstances. The State the OP lives in says it is a 6 point offense, that is why he was ticketed in the manner he was. It has nothing to do with the Officer. Wet road, powerful car, young driver, none of that stuff matters.

By suggesting that a young guy start a habit of using a Lawyer to fight battles for him, you are not helping him. You are in fact hurting him. This is normally a bad habit done by parents who think there kids do no wrong. "Johnny did this........let's get him an Attorney to get him off the charge". This begin a cycle. Johnny might get off one, two, three......times, but eventually Johnny is going to end up locked up or without a drivers license.

The OP seems like a good kid and I commend him for going about things the right way.





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