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post #241 of 652 Old August 28th, 2014, 08:25 PM
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My biggest concern is if, indeed, there was a scuffle and Brown grabbed at his gun. Also, the charging at the officer part. If these are true, I say, play stupid games...win stupid prizes.
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post #242 of 652 Old August 28th, 2014, 08:39 PM
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What would you do if somebody grabbed you by the throat T. Lee?


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But during those times, were you being robbed? Or was it a typical highschool brawl?

If its the former, I find it hard to believe you did not feel in imminent danger.

If its the latter, I think a lot of us guys have been there at one point in time and did not think our life was going to end over a cheating girlfriend or heated argument.



Wonder about what? What if your kids were playing on the street, and you heard screams, and you looked out the window and your kids were on fire from a Molotov?

Yeah, I bet you'd want to kill the SOB who threw it, and then some.






If he robbed someone, and/or put an innocents life in danger I would feel no sympathy for him. That's my take.

As far as race/color/ethnicity goes. I couldn't care.
A question was asked and I answered it.Even though I had fights in my teens and pre-teens quite a few of those fights were while I was in my late teens and some in my 20s between military guys so not just the typical Highschool brawl. In fact one incident Keith W. ended up hitting the floor when we were involved in an incident in the club and I ended up in the M.P. station that night and he ended up at the hospital on post for two days. We were not robbed but it was a 6 on 3 situation. another situation in Germany Lex got his tooth cracked that night we were outnumbered I was in my 20s then all of those were military guys on military guys and my examples don't stop there but I'm gonna stop there. Truth is a lot of guys haven't been there. Talking to some ppl I was surprised to hear they have never been in a fight in their life.

As far as my kids playing in the street and being hit by a cocktail. I mean come on. Hey kids I know there is a protest going on out there and a bit of rioting going on but you guys are fine to go down the street to play in that area just be careful. As a parent looking at the unrest and numerous clouds of teargas out there I don't think I would tell my kids to go out there and play. Even now my kids only play in the back yard so I see what you are saying but in the real world I say to you man please get real!!!!

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post #243 of 652 Old August 28th, 2014, 08:55 PM
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A question was asked and I answered it.Even though I had fights in my teens and pre-teens quite a few of those fights were while I was in my late teens and some in my 20s between military guys so not just the typical Highschool brawl. In fact one incident Keith W. ended up hitting the floor when we were involved in an incident in the club and I ended up in the M.P. station that night and he ended up at the hospital on post for two days. We were not robbed but it was a 6 on 3 situation. another situation in Germany Lex got his tooth cracked that night we were outnumbered I was in my 20s then all of those were military guys on military guys and my examples don't stop there but I'm gonna stop there. Truth is a lot of guys haven't been there. Talking to some ppl I was surprised to hear they have never been in a fight in their life.
Still sounds like a high school brawl. It's an analogy for immature skirmishes. And those sound like they fit the description regardless. You honestly can't compare a small shop owner to your military fights. If you think you can and its justified, then you really need to re-evaluate your thinking.

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As far as my kids playing in the street and being hit by a cocktail. I mean come on. Hey kids I know there is a protest going on out there and a bit of rioting going on but you guys are fine to go down the street to play in that area just be careful. As a parent looking at the unrest and numerous clouds of teargas out there I don't think I would tell my kids to go out there and play. Even now my kids only play in the back yard so I see what you are saying but in the real world I say to you man please get real!!!!
I'm not talking about playing near protests. I'm talking about kids playing out front and a guy doing crazy and stupid things in the vicinity with the kids being indirectly involved.

Come to think of it, I've been in a similar situation. I was young and playing in my grandma's yard one day. We heard sirens but didn't think nothing of it. We were tossing some nerf balls or something out front and a car came speeding down the road, literally feet from the sidewalk where we were at. Had my brother thrown the nerf in the street and had I chased it at that moment, I'd be dead. The car was going so fast that from our perspective, we didn't see it coming until it already passed with 3 cops behind him. It was a high speed chase through a residential neighborhood.

So yes, innocent lives are in danger when people who don't care about repercussions are running loose.

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post #244 of 652 Old August 28th, 2014, 09:02 PM
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I was actually comparing my personal experiences with the high school brawls vs the fights that I were involved with later in life as a grown man. Imo they were quite a bit different in various ways. I guess the question wasn't about being grabbed by the throat it was about being robbed. Anyway point taken.

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post #245 of 652 Old August 28th, 2014, 10:00 PM
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As far as my kids playing in the street and being hit by a cocktail. I mean come on. Hey kids I know there is a protest going on out there and a bit of rioting going on but you guys are fine to go down the street to play in that area just be careful.
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post #246 of 652 Old August 29th, 2014, 11:06 PM
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What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Oh yeah, thats because the media has now become the judge, jury, and executioner.

From what I read through forums, social media, and news outlets it astounds me the level of hypocrisy. All the Brown supporters yell, scream, and chant about giving him (Brown) the benefit of the doubt but where is that courtesy for the officer?

People scream that Brown was a saint yet the internet is littered with pictures of him being (or acting like) a thug smoking doobs, flashing firearms, blah blah blah. Now for the officer, people scream that he is a cold blooded murderer yet I cant find a single iota of evidence that he has really ever done anything wrong.

People are just so fucked these days that it really makes me glad Im at the age I am now that I will only have to watch this world spiral out of control for another 5 decades or so.

Case and point:

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post #247 of 652 Old August 29th, 2014, 11:20 PM Thread Starter
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post #248 of 652 Old August 30th, 2014, 12:31 AM
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Saw some rioters in Ferguson wearing shirts that said they would rather be stopped by ISIS than Ferguson PD.
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post #249 of 652 Old August 30th, 2014, 02:15 AM
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Just a shot in the dark here but hey I may be wrong but I would assume that teenagers in general male and female would be more prone to post up some more character damaging photos and videos online and on pc's vs grown men and women let alone someone like police officers. I know I have a couple in my family one that's more so out on the streets on patrol and the other a narcotics officer and neither of them hardly post up any personal pics.

Sitting talking to them about their professional lives they do talk about quite a bit of the crap that goes on. Those guys do cover eachothers asses just as soldiers do one of them is a vet so quite a bit that goes on is never heard about and you don't see incriminating pictures or read about it. There are those select few that get caught up and there is no protecting them and they do post up this and that and they get caught doing this and that. We would all sit around and compare some of those stories. Just bc you can't find a record of anything being done wrong that doesn't mean it's not there. I'm speaking from personal experience on that one that I don't have to go into details on. Former direct leadership would know but if YOU looked it up you wouldn't find a thing.

So I suppose that young men and women in their teens early and late who usually are known for posting up some dumb shit is the automatic smoking gun for guilt. Teens smoking doobs, and holding guns omg that's unheard of or is it. But it is a dumb move to take pictures of it. Bc pictures like that will be used in various ways even in death. So whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? I think people realize Mike Brown was no saint and on the flip side was the officer in question a peaceful bishop? "get the fuck on the sidewalk"! Hopefully they get to the bottom of this eventually!

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post #250 of 652 Old August 30th, 2014, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Saw some rioters in Ferguson wearing shirts that said they would rather be stopped by ISIS than Ferguson PD.
Wow. They just reached a new level of stupid.

---------- Post added at 09:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 AM ----------

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Just a shot in the dark here but hey I may be wrong but I would assume that teenagers in general male and female would be more prone to post up some more character damaging photos and videos online and on pc's vs grown men and women let alone someone like police officers. I know I have a couple in my family one that's more so out on the streets on patrol and the other a narcotics officer and neither of them hardly post up any personal pics.

Sitting talking to them about their professional lives they do talk about quite a bit of the crap that goes on. Those guys do cover eachothers asses just as soldiers do one of them is a vet so quite a bit that goes on is never heard about and you don't see incriminating pictures or read about it. There are those select few that get caught up and there is no protecting them and they do post up this and that and they get caught doing this and that. We would all sit around and compare some of those stories. Just bc you can't find a record of anything being done wrong that doesn't mean it's not there. I'm speaking from personal experience on that one that I don't have to go into details on. Former direct leadership would know but if YOU looked it up you wouldn't find a thing.

So I suppose that young men and women in their teens early and late who usually are known for posting up some dumb shit is the automatic smoking gun for guilt. Teens smoking doobs, and holding guns omg that's unheard of or is it. But it is a dumb move to take pictures of it. Bc pictures like that will be used in various ways even in death. So whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? I think people realize Mike Brown was no saint and on the flip side was the officer in question a peaceful bishop? "get the fuck on the sidewalk"! Hopefully they get to the bottom of this eventually!
He's not just holding a gun....he's pointing it in an unsafe manner and has a wad of cash in his mouth. He's trying to look gangster. Teens do post up stupid photos. But I've ever met y one teen who posts photos like THAT, who is not a thug. No normal teenage kid posts pictures of themselves smoking doobs, holding firearms in that way and tries to look gangster. I'm with 1FF on this. A picture of Brown skinning a cat in his back yard could surface and people would still be tripping over themselves trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. The officer on the other hand, those people already have their mind made up on him.

And another thing. Just because you're a teen does not mean you do shit like that. I would have NEVER held a firearm in such an unsafe manner, let alone doing it with a wad of cash. So while teens may be more prone to do things like that, it is no excuse. If it walks like a duck and quake like a duck, then it probably a duck. All these pictures surfacing of him acting thug like. Its not like it's just that one. He robbed a store, then assaulted the owner when confronted (which seems to be something Brown supporters like to forget). How is he not a thug? And what has he done to earn the benefit of the doubt? In my opinion, the only person that has earned the benefit of the doubt is the officer. NOTHING has surfaced in him about his past. And don't you think those people would be quick to throw him under the bus if any of them had dealing with him in the past were he used excessive force? I'd think so. But not one person has stepped up and said so. He has nothing on him, yet people are crucifying him. Brown has done everything a young thug can do, including assault, and people are acting like he deserves the benefit of the doubt. They even dubbed him the name "Gental Giant". Even after assaulting a man two times smaller than him......
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post #251 of 652 Old August 30th, 2014, 05:11 PM
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Wow. They just reached a new level of stupid.

---------- Post added at 09:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 AM ----------


He's not just holding a gun....he's pointing it in an unsafe manner and has a wad of cash in his mouth. He's trying to look gangster. Teens do post up stupid photos. But I've ever met y one teen who posts photos like THAT, who is not a thug. No normal teenage kid posts pictures of themselves smoking doobs, holding firearms in that way and tries to look gangster. I'm with 1FF on this. A picture of Brown skinning a cat in his back yard could surface and people would still be tripping over themselves trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. The officer on the other hand, those people already have their mind made up on him.

And another thing. Just because you're a teen does not mean you do shit like that. I would have NEVER held a firearm in such an unsafe manner, let alone doing it with a wad of cash. So while teens may be more prone to do things like that, it is no excuse. If it walks like a duck and quake like a duck, then it probably a duck. All these pictures surfacing of him acting thug like. Its not like it's just that one. He robbed a store, then assaulted the owner when confronted (which seems to be something Brown supporters like to forget). How is he not a thug? And what has he done to earn the benefit of the doubt? In my opinion, the only person that has earned the benefit of the doubt is the officer. NOTHING has surfaced in him about his past. And don't you think those people would be quick to throw him under the bus if any of them had dealing with him in the past were he used excessive force? I'd think so. But not one person has stepped up and said so. He has nothing on him, yet people are crucifying him. Brown has done everything a young thug can do, including assault, and people are acting like he deserves the benefit of the doubt. They even dubbed him the name "Gental Giant". Even after assaulting a man two times smaller than him......
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post #252 of 652 Old September 11th, 2014, 10:01 PM
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Back to some statements about the direct incident in the street. Looks like some new witnesses have come forward about what they seen out there. Two workers who were in that neighborhood at the time that were like 50ft away from it.

New Michael Brown witnesses: ‘He had his hands up!’ (VIDEO) | Q13 FOX News

New Michael Brown shooting witnesses describe scene - CNN.com

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post #253 of 652 Old September 11th, 2014, 10:22 PM
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Those videos show nothing.

Seems like people are really trying to drag this out. They just now come forward....

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post #254 of 652 Old September 11th, 2014, 10:46 PM
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A lot of times people don't wanna get involved with investigations for various reasons, but end up changing their minds along the line. Did I miss when they closed this case or something?! Did this incident happen like half a year ago or something. Usually the legal system will try to drag a high profile case out to let the dust settle a bit then get things going but I don't think it's uncommon for witnesses to trickle in along the line to finally tell what they seen bc some people are hesitant about doing that.

On a smaller level when something happened in a classroom people would be hesitant to let the teachers or principal know what happened besides one or two people but over time.... So that thing of people slowly coming forward even happened in troughout grade school and we clearly know it happens in adult hood so should it be a surprise? I think not!

And even if you think the video shows nothing they also made statements that kinda fall in line with quite a few other witness statements. And they don't say this guy was charging the officer. It's like multiple witness accounts saying almost the same damn thing.

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post #255 of 652 Old September 12th, 2014, 04:46 AM
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I don't know, the dude's reaction is more of a "What the fuck just happened?" arm raise than a representation of the supposed surrendering of Brown. If that is indeed what Brown was doing then how is it also not likely that he did the gangsta "What the fuck you gonna do 'bout it?" pose instead of a surrendering, because that is not what the surrendering pose is to me.

Frankly, I'm MORE suspicious of people who come forward at a significantly later date than those that come forward within a day or two of an event like this. Why? Because media is why. I have a hard time believing that the media coverage hasn't tainted their story in some way. Certainly requires investigating, but I would be cautious to take it at face value so long after the critical incident. Two days is the time frame when you remember the most clear details of a critical event like this, before that and you'll have a form of amnesia that helps you get over the trauma of the event, a week later and I have to rule out outside influence and I think we are seeing that here as you can't honestly tell me that dude was "replicating what Brown was doing and that is definitely surrendering" when the dude raises his hands like "What the fuck just happened?".



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post #256 of 652 Old September 12th, 2014, 11:28 AM
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point taken.

the reaction in the video is seen but the statements can also be read. Not from only these two but from various witnesses and it all seems to add up to the same shit that this guy was running away as this guy was chasing him down shooting at him. Not this kid was charging at him saying "shoot me or I bet you want shoot me". Like the story some have accepted. You know with him being a "G" and all.

"They were contractors doing construction work in Ferguson, Missouri, on the day Michael Brown was killed.

And the men, who asked not to be identified after CNN contacted them, said they were about 50 feet away from Officer Darren Wilson when he opened fire.

An exclusive video captures their reactions during the moments just after the shooting.
Intense clashes during Ferguson protest
Protests disrupt Ferguson town meeting
Photos: Ferguson council meeting Photos: Ferguson council meeting

"He had his f**n hands up," one of the men says in the video.

The man told CNN he heard one gunshot, then another shot about 30 seconds later.

"The cop didn't say get on the ground. He just kept shooting," the man said.

That same witness described the gruesome scene, saying he saw Brown's "brains come out of his head," again stating, "his hands were up."

The video shows the man raising his arms in the air -- just as, he says, Brown was doing when he was shot.

The other contractor told CNN he saw Brown running away from a police car.

Brown "put his hands up," the construction worker said, and "the officer was chasing him
."

The contractor says he saw Wilson fire a shot at Brown while his back was turned."


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post #257 of 652 Old September 12th, 2014, 11:42 AM
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The autopsy results disproved any claims that he had his hands up or his back turned when he was shot so these aren't credible accounts IMO.

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post #258 of 652 Old September 12th, 2014, 11:52 AM
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Im still struggling with this whole thing. Franky, I hate thugs and when you choose to partake in that lifestyle, eventually, it catches up with you. However, none of that means shit. Our sworn officers cant go around shooting people because they have a lapse in judgement, get frustrated or whatever. There is only one single fact that keeps bugging me and its the ONLY fact that matters....did an armed human being shoot another unarmed human being. I dont really care about old pictures, lifestyles or even past criminal history. An officer of the law is not judge and jury. I dont care about riots, race or anything. We need to know one simple fact..if the person was unarmed, why was he shot and killed? We cant live in a world where our police can shoot and just walk away. I dont like the idea of that world. It has nothing to do with race at all.

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post #259 of 652 Old September 12th, 2014, 11:56 AM
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Just because a person is unarmed does not mean they are not a deadly threat.

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post #260 of 652 Old September 12th, 2014, 12:04 PM
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Just because a person is unarmed does not mean they are not a deadly threat.
^^^^This

If we start saying only armed people can be shot by police or in self defense situations we are entering a slippery slope, espcially for the 120lb female officer who gets punched and attacked by a 220lb suspect. Should that female officer allow herself to be rendered unconscious and to die? I don't think so. If that female officer shot and killed the man the media and public would be calling a foul. If you haven't done the job opinions don't hold water in my eyes.

You can't always injure somebody and by all intensive purposes try to kill them, then just toss your hands in the air and surrender. You are still a credible threat. We are taught if anybody tries to disarm you that is a deadly threat situation and to address it as such. If a bad guy uses non lethal weapons such as your pepper spray against you, that is a deadly force situation. It isn't like Brown was shot and killed for no reason.
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