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post #21 of 81 Old December 9th, 2015, 11:02 PM
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Yes, but I don't believe you have to sit in church every Sunday to have a relationship with him.
+1

I think basing someone's devotion to their religion on their ability to wake up early on a sunday morning to be ridiculous.

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post #22 of 81 Old December 9th, 2015, 11:03 PM
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Yes, but I don't believe you have to sit in church every Sunday to have a relationship with him.
Same here, I haven't been to church in about 6 years, but I do believe. A lot of people that go to church every Sunday, go for the wrong reason and that's why I don't go.

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post #23 of 81 Old December 9th, 2015, 11:32 PM
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Yes I do. I was raised Roman Catholic and fell out of the faith for several years and just returned a few years ago. I had my doubts of faith through those years and came to the realization through my own experiences that there is no way that God is not real. I returned more devout than ever and my life has changed in ways I couldn't imagine. Where I would be without God I'm not sure honestly.....



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post #24 of 81 Old December 9th, 2015, 11:48 PM
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Not at all. I was raised Christian but started to have doubts around the time I was a teen. By the time I graduated high school, I didn't believe at all. I just can't understand how there could be an all powerful invisible man in the sky yet we don't live in a utopia. If he can make everything ever in six days, surely he could take a couple of minutes to get rid of cancer and make sure people don't starve to death.
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post #25 of 81 Old December 9th, 2015, 11:54 PM
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we all got our time bro. this place, if u believe in the faith, is kinda like a mini hell. deal with the bullshit here and make it out believing, you good to go




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post #26 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 12:16 AM
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Not at all. I was raised Christian but started to have doubts around the time I was a teen. By the time I graduated high school, I didn't believe at all. I just can't understand how there could be an all powerful invisible man in the sky yet we don't live in a utopia. If he can make everything ever in six days, surely he could take a couple of minutes to get rid of cancer and make sure people don't starve to death.
If you understood the concept of life on Earth from a Christian standpoint, that it's all just a test of our faith and the struggles we face are the challenges in said test, you can see why it isn't a utopia. The utopia is heaven.

Worth noting that I'm not trying to argue with your belief (mainly because I try not to argue over religion or politics), just making a statement.
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post #27 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 12:52 AM
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If you understood the concept of life on Earth from a Christian standpoint, that it's all just a test of our faith and the struggles we face are the challenges in said test, you can see why it isn't a utopia. The utopia is heaven.

Worth noting that I'm not trying to argue with your belief (mainly because I try not to argue over religion or politics), just making a statement.
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post #28 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 01:41 AM
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I'm with xkape on this. Someone had to exist before the big bang. Now, how so or why so is a question none of us will never be able to answer or comprehend until we meet our maker at the end of the line. I go by my life acknowledging the possibility of a greater being, but not worshipping a single group of beliefs. What if all are wrong and it's literally a giant spaghetti monster out there with his noodles of creation spraying his creations.


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post #29 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 01:50 AM
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Not one bit, not do I really care about religion. We went to church when I was young but stopped going. I've never really believed any of it. I just see religion as something people use to feel comforted when they don't have anywhere to turn. I believe too much in science to believe anything else. Obviously there are questions that can't be answered by anyone, so I just find it pointless to worry about the things we will never know. I'd rather live my life trying to do what I think is best without conforming to any particular group. I'm not afraid of what may happen when I die because I don't know, so why worry? I don't think it's likely that I'll turn into some lost soul, or that I'll go to heaven or hell or be reborn or just disappear, I don't think any of those things because I don't know. Therefore I don't worry.

I also hate when people who don't believe in god are annoying, but I also don't like when someone's faith is shoved in my face. I also don't particularly like living in a place where everyone kind of assumes someone believes in god because i feel like if I were to say I don't believe in god i would be judged.

I've taken two philosophy courses, one on a bunch of different religions, and I just haven't found any reason to believe. But people should believe what makes them happy..just don't shove it in my face because I'll get mad

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post #30 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 02:49 AM
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post #31 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 10:38 AM
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One thing I'd like to mention that has always bothered me is people on both sides of the spectrum, the ones who go "Its science, therefore not God!" AND the ones who go "It is God! Therefore it CAN NOT BE science!"

And I'm just over here like "Why not both?", because I'm pretty sure nowhere in the bible does it say "And God then created the earth with MAGIC PIXIE DUST".
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post #32 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 11:18 AM
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I do but holy shit it's hard to sometimes. I went to Catholic school from pre-k through high school. My mom is a Principal of a Catholic school. Seems like everything is forced on me whenever religion is talked about at our house.. I wish I could say I was a practicing Catholic but I have no idea when the last time I went to church was. I'll go back eventually, but it's something I have to do for myself and not for my mom to be happy.


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post #33 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 11:30 AM
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I believe in God.

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post #34 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 11:35 AM
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I thought Master Chief Billy Sunday was god? I mean he cleaned up Chicago from all the....oh never mind.
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post #35 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 12:19 PM
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I've seen and personally lived things that makes me judge God's decisions, but also absolutely made me believe a higher power exists.

With that said, I've tried to attend church, non-denominational Christian, but never got into it. I do truly believe he exists, and will release you if you allow him to, but there is something inside that still has me not ready even though he has done a ton for me.

It's hard to describe without typing a story and getting emotional, but long story short - I do.

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post #36 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 12:38 PM
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Yes, but I would not really consider myself religious and I make for a pretty poor Christian.

I was raised in a strict evangelist Nazarene church. Everything was a sin: dancing, loud music, women's makeup, etc. Around the age of 13 my cousin and I got caught goofing off at church. The lay minister went crazy. We were marched to the front of the church and to chorus of Amens he screamed at us about how we were going to hell. I suppose his purpose was to shame us into compliance but the opposite actually happened. We both stopped going to church. I knew in my heart that he was wrong. God would not send us to hell over such a trivial matter. By that time I had read about 70% of the bible. I never finished it. I became an atheist, or agnostic, and actually made it my mission in life to argue with every self-righteous, born-again Christian I ran into.

I married a Catholic who was religious. We had kids. She taught Sunday school and called me her heathen. I went with her to church occasionally and years passed. I noticed that no one was ripping their hair out and talking in tongues. That the message was more of faith, hope and forgiveness not of hell and damnation. Drinking a beer, music and women wearing make-up were not sins. While it is totally misunderstood by the other Christian denominations I realized it was a religion I could live. To the great relief of my wife I was baptized and became Catholic. I still don't go to church very often and since I do not wish to be excommunicated I do not argue against doctrine I disagree with. I have mellowed with old age.

While I believe in God (whether it be a sentient being or a natural force) I also realize that religions are created by man to explain the unexplainable. I was discussing a similar topic with a priest a long time ago and he said there is God's law and church law. What an eye opening comment. Unlike the Nazarene lay minister who thought his word was God's, the priest knew the difference.

There is an old saying, "Small minds talk about people, medium minds talk about objects, great minds talk about ideas." The problem is how do you explain great ideas to people with small minds. You have to make it small ideas and as concrete as possible. Jesus taught using parables. Ideas that people could understand at the time. This that they could relate to. This is also why many people think that God is a giant man who sits on a golden throne in heaven. It is something tangible enough to understand.

God exists outside of time and space. We do not. The same priest told me the Bible contains religious truths not literal truths. An example is the genealogy of Jesus. Biblical scholars know that the authors wanted symmetry between Abraham and David, David and Jesus so they left out a couple of generations. Yet some evangelist adds up the number of generations then multiplies that times a fictitious average age to determine that the earth is only 6000 years old. While totally discredited people believe this nonsense. Worse yet non-Christians think all Christians believe it.

In my mind I think it is pretty amazing that a traveling band of illiterate nomadic sheep herders could come up with a creation theory that actually parallels evolution in Genesis. The earth coalescing, atmosphere and oceans forming, plant life forming, animal life forming in the oceans and moving to land, the emergence of mammals, and then man. Man evolving from Australopithecus to homo sapiens gaining self-awareness and knowledge. It's all there.

You could nit-pic the inaccuracies but coming from a bunch of illiterate sheep herders its not bad. In the fifth grade I was scolded by a teacher because I thought South America and Africa fit together. We didn't know about tectonic plate activity and the mid-Atlantic rift back then. When discussing things that happen in history it is important to put them in their proper context.

Do I believe in heaven? I don't know. I'm fairly sure that it is not a land of milk and honey with streets paved in gold. At the urging of Constantine, the Christian Bible was assembled 400 years after the death of Jesus. Of the many gospels floating around four were chosen to be included. None written during Jesus’ lifetime. It is a matter of discussion as to whether any of the authors had even met Jesus. Some of the gospels not chosen talked Jesus arising from the dead in spirit not in body. I doubt that that could be sold to small minds.

There is a parable about a woman marrying several brothers in sequence after they died (a custom at the time). The question poised to Jesus was whose wife will she be in heaven. His reply was none. In heaven people will not be married. They will be like the Angels in heaven. Christian teaching is that Jesus is both the son of man and the son of God. I take this to mean that his physical body is the son of man and his spirit was the son of God. If heaven exists it will be a place where our spirits join together.

Just a few thought and I can prove none of it. Oh, by the way I still dislike evangelist fundamentalist Christians who believe that they have a personal relationship with God and can literally see God's word in the Bible. Some are OK but others are some of the most opinionated, intolerant and ignorant people I have ever met
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post #37 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 12:54 PM
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Absolutely not. You also have to specify which god too. Throughout history there have been thousands of gods and deities mankind has worshiped. So the real question should be which one do you believe in and why you think yours, out of all of the ones ever worshiped, is the only one that is real.

Also, a book isn't proof of existence. If you use said book (Bible) or any other religious literature as proof, you have to have a reason why you think your book is right, and everyone elses is wrong. I also pose the question on top of these: Do you think you'd believe in a different god if you lived in a geographical location such as UAE, Iraq, Iran, Turkey? If so, how do you reconcile that with which is the correct one?
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post #38 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 01:18 PM
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My issue with Christianity in general (I was raised Catholic, and attended a baptist church with my ex wife, attended a non denominational church (the Vineyard) for awhile) and part of my reasoning to it all being man made to "explain the unexplainable" is that most of the Churches I've been to say that God is forgiveness, and all you have to do is ask forgiveness for your sins, even on your deathbed, and poof,into heaven you go. Doesn't matter if you're a child murdering rapist, a welfare check stealing thief, or a heathen homosexual, being faced with the concept of eternal torture and saying "I'm sorry for my sins" to God is an automatic in.

It seems like such a cop out, especially since so many of the "sins" are things that just shouldn't matter. Contraception, masturbation, etc just seem so damn petty to suffer eternal damnation for. And then if you are a child murdering rapist, being granted access to Heaven just because you said "I'm sorry" as you're dying seems like a great "get out of jail free" card.

I also have trouble with the whole, "there had to be something before the Big Bang" line of thinking. It demonstrates a lack of knowledge of what the big bang is theorized to be. And finally, if there had to be "something" to create all of the universe out of "nothing" where did that "something" come from?

I'm ok with not having a full understanding of how we came to be. I believe that there may be a God, but I think about 99% of the rules to be a "good little Christian/Muslim/Bhuddist/whatever" are just people who were in power making shit up as they go along.

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post #39 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 01:36 PM
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Yes, I believe in God and I believe in a life after death as well. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and preach my beliefs on someone else. If someone doesn't believe in God or Jesus than so be it, just don't be a dick to me because you don't believe in them.

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+2.

I find it hard to not only to believe in a god but to believe in religious ideals.
It doesn't bother me if other people do though.
So you don't believe in kindness towards your fellow man for example? What do you mean by religious ideals?

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If you start to think about it. If you take the big bang theory as your way to go or you take God as your way to go, what was before him or it? How did they come to be? If there is nothing, not even space or darkness but, nothing... how did either of them come to be?

To completely think of nothingness is a thought that I cannot even grasp. It's like looking at your hand and then a person appears. Right out of nothing. But, it's not your hand we're talking about, it's existence. In my mind, the only way for us to exist in this universe is for someone from another universe to have created it. Does that mean there is a Heaven and Jesus is waiting for us? I have no idea. Maybe it's just a massively advanced society and it was a 6 year old kid making a playground for amusement and theres 100's of universes. Fuck if I know. All I can really say is that 1) we just can't come from nothing. Big bang can't come from nothing. It had to fucking come from somewhere. If something exploded to create the universe, how did the shit that got exploded get made or form? If there is nothing, there will always be nothing. For someoune outside of our universe though, outside of our ability to think of, it could be created as simply as a child taking out a blank sheet of paper and start drawing. Nothing becomes something in an instant.
The universe was created from a singularity or so is the thought in the theory so I mean you have that answer for you.

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My issue with Christianity in general (I was raised Catholic, and attended a baptist church with my ex wife, attended a non denominational church (the Vineyard) for awhile) and part of my reasoning to it all being man made to "explain the unexplainable" is that most of the Churches I've been to say that God is forgiveness, and all you have to do is ask forgiveness for your sins, even on your deathbed, and poof,into heaven you go. Doesn't matter if you're a child murdering rapist, a welfare check stealing thief, or a heathen homosexual, being faced with the concept of eternal torture and saying "I'm sorry for my sins" to God is an automatic in.

It seems like such a cop out, especially since so many of the "sins" are things that just shouldn't matter. Contraception, masturbation, etc just seem so damn petty to suffer eternal damnation for. And then if you are a child murdering rapist, being granted access to Heaven just because you said "I'm sorry" as you're dying seems like a great "get out of jail free" card.

I also have trouble with the whole, "there had to be something before the Big Bang" line of thinking. It demonstrates a lack of knowledge of what the big bang is theorized to be. And finally, if there had to be "something" to create all of the universe out of "nothing" where did that "something" come from?

I'm ok with not having a full understanding of how we came to be. I believe that there may be a God, but I think about 99% of the rules to be a "good little Christian/Muslim/Bhuddist/whatever" are just people who were in power making shit up as they go along.
From my understanding you can confess your sins all you want to that isn't going to get you into heaven. It is truly being remorseful for those sins you committed that will allow the absolving of sins.
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post #40 of 81 Old December 10th, 2015, 01:42 PM
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One thing I'd like to mention that has always bothered me is people on both sides of the spectrum, the ones who go "Its science, therefore not God!" AND the ones who go "It is God! Therefore it CAN NOT BE science!"

And I'm just over here like "Why not both?", because I'm pretty sure nowhere in the bible does it say "And God then created the earth with MAGIC PIXIE DUST".
Seriously this. Everyone seems to think religion and science can't coexist but they certainly can. I do it every day. I don't blindly believe everything anyone has ever said in Christianity either.

Side note, I always wonder how much has been lost to translation too.

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From my understanding you can confess your sins all you want to that isn't going to get you into heaven. It is truly being remorseful for those sins you committed that will allow the absolving of sins.
Exactly. It's not just saying "sorry, my bad", it's actually changing deep down. Repenting not because you want into the special club of heaven but because you hate you have sinned.
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