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post #41 of 73 Old October 4th, 2017, 08:12 PM
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Come on guys. Occam's razor here. You've got multiple structures all around of varying shapes and materials along with pools, water, cement, etc along with a shooting position high above the lower structures which means sound is potentially bouncing off other buildings across the street, whatever. Echoes get really fucky - especially from acute noises like gunfire. Don't go diving too deep into conspiracy theory websites - you'll get fucking lost.

Or do. Whatever. We've already abandoned all hope of ever developing critical thinking in this country in its current climate.

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post #42 of 73 Old October 4th, 2017, 09:14 PM
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I just don't understand why he took so many guns with him. Considering overheating and failures, I would think that 4 to 6 rifles would've been more than enough to handle the shooting that he did.

Is it possible that other people were supposed to join him in the shooting, but they didn't show up, so he did it alone?

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post #43 of 73 Old October 4th, 2017, 09:55 PM
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Better to have too many and not need them than have too little and not finish what you started

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post #44 of 73 Old October 4th, 2017, 11:03 PM
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All this complaining about anti gun activists. You guys realize something NEEDS to change right? What are your proposals?
Why?

Looking at the numbers, far fewer people die due to actual gun violence (not counting suicide or legal defensive shootings) than pretty much any other activity. More people die annually due to DUI accidents, but no one is calling for ignition interlocks to be installed on every new car.

The problem isn't the crazy people with guns. The problem is the blaming of the gun. Whether they like to admit it or not, it's just as easy, if not easier, to kill a lot more people in a short amount of time with a moving van than with a gun. People who don't like or use guns are quick to vilify the gun, and fail to think twice when something they use often, such as a car or truck, is used to kill people.

There are millions of people who own guns who are responsible, law abiding, and sensible enough not to let their kids have access to them or use them for petty, worthless reasons. Having easy access to guns (concealed carry permits) has lowered crime in every single area that it's been implemented in effectively (Chicago, California, New York, and Washington DC not included because you have to be someone special or know someone to get a permit in those areas). More guns in the hands of responsible people lowers crime, period.

Stop looking at it emotionally with a heavy handed "We have to do SOMETHING!" attitude. That is ineffective and pointless.

The issue we have is one guy (supposedly) decided to shoot up a concert venue from an elevated vantage point with enough guns to keep a steady stream of fire, with bump fire stocks to get rapid fire, and apparently he got lucky. He didn't shoot 500+ people, he shot a few, and the panic led to most of the extra injuries, not necessarily the gunfire.

The emotional response is wrong. The facts are, guns aren't the issue. One more law making it just that much harder for law abiding citizens to get guns isn't going to stop crazy people from doing stupid, senseless things like this.

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 PM ----------

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I just don't understand why he took so many guns with him. Considering overheating and failures, I would think that 4 to 6 rifles would've been more than enough to handle the shooting that he did.

Is it possible that other people were supposed to join him in the shooting, but they didn't show up, so he did it alone?
Faster to pick up a loaded gun than to reload an empty one is my guess.

Shoot one dry, drop it, pick up the next.
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post #45 of 73 Old October 4th, 2017, 11:55 PM
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the way i view it is the introduction of guns to the world was the opening of pandora's box, plain and simple. mass shootings are a problem, but the only thing that would be more tragic than mass shootings is if civilians couldn't own guns. the whole reasoning behind civilians owning guns is to protect themselves from their own (or other) governments. throughout history, the leading cause of death is democide - the death of civilians at the hands of government. more than anything, it's a way to retain freedom. any measure of civilian gun control is a step closer to making it less likely the people of the world will ever be able to defend themselves against such a thing. as i've said before, look how much our own government tries to get away with. now imagine if they knew there was NO way the people could ever resist or fight back, if it came to that. they would take total control and the world wouldn't be anything close to what you see today. gun rights will be chipped away at slowly, so even minor regulation changes need to be fought against. i don't know how to solve the mass shooter problem, but what i do know is that gun control isn't the answer. i've been seeing a lot of people online mention australia's low gun crime rates since they confiscated guns, but their gun crime rates were already low and their homicide rates increased with other deadly weapons, like knives. this is clear evidence of guns not being the problem, but some other factor, be it societal or mental health related. it's extremely important in a historical context to retain the right to own guns, even very powerful ones as much as some people don't want to hear that. we need to be honest with ourselves and focus on what causes this shit to happen, and focusing on the tools used is a red herring that the government wants people to buy into because they would highly benefit from the citizens not owning guns, and again that's where it will end up - one slow step at a time through minor regulations

out of the millions of gun owners in america alone, how many mass shootings have we had? with the amount of division in this country, it's pretty incredible that it's less than a million. my guess would be that it's somewhere in the low triple digits, but that's extremely low in the grand scheme of things. i hate to say it, but it might be just an unfortunate side effect of the world we live in and the availability of guns. the world will never be a safe place. you'll never be completely out of some form of danger whether you're at a concert or in your own bed at home, gun related or not. i do think this is a problem worth trying to solve, but guns are obviously not the REASON these things happen, and there's too much on the line for the entire human population to let an entity take the right of ownership or even chip away at it
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post #46 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 01:26 AM
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All this complaining about anti gun activists. You guys realize something NEEDS to change right? What are your proposals?
The only change that would prevent this is to just... ban mankind. Face it, violence has existed since the beginning of time. It's just a reality of life. It fucking sucks but you can't legislate evil. Even if you could manage to find some way prevent the guns that were used (the black market would always provide a supply), what's to prevent the guy from hauling ass into the crowd with a box truck full of explosives and leaving a crater in the stadium that kills thousands? Look at the bombings in Paris and Manchester for recent events. The Oklahoma City bombing killed 3x as many as this Vegas shooting and was done with basic items you can purchase at your local Tractor supply. Evil will always find a way.

If someone is hell bent on slaughtering dozens of people, why would they give a shit about a measly class D felony gun charge?

EDIT: Events like this give an illusion of a major issue with guns but it's really not. Despite these mass shootings, your chances of getting killed by a gun are still extremely low. Last I checked, there's around 33,600 gun deaths each year in the US on average. That's 10.6 per 100,000 people or about .0001%. Of these deaths, the vast majority (around 65%) are suicides that are no threat to anyone but the person committing the act and is something that's going to happen anyway. Another 15% are by officers in the line of duty or in self-defense cases. About 17% are due to criminal activity, gang violence, murders, mass shootings, etc... acts that actually are a threat to the public. The last 3% is due to accidental discharge. So the 17% or about 5,100 deaths annually by guns in criminal acts is a more realistic number. Even more realistically, many of those 5,100 are one-on-one personal matters in drug deals gone bad, criminals taking out other criminals, etc... but lets roll with the 5,100 number for now. That 5,100 is just 1.8 out of 100,000 or .00000.... *calc error* ... fuck it, it's really really insignificant is the point.

You know what you are more likely to be killed by in the US? Let's make a list, shall we...

Heart disease - 633,800 deaths annually (124x more likely)
Cancer - 595,000 deaths annually (116x more likely)
Chronic respiratory diseases - 155,000 deaths annually (30x more likely)
Accidents in general (all included unintentional falls, wrecks, etc...) - 146,500 deaths annually (28x more likely)
Stroke - 140,300 deaths annually (27x more likely)
Influenza - 57,000 deaths annually (11x more likely)
Drug overdoses - 41,000 deaths annually (8x more likely, includes alcohol related)
Motor vehicle accidents - 34,000 deaths annually (7% more likely)

...gun deaths that are actually a threat to innocent people are way way down the list. Yet, look at that list above. Heart disease and cancer from such as obesity and smoking are perfectly legal. Alcohol kills way more people every year and yet it's legal. The left wants to end the drug war and legalize all drugs even though they kill more people every year than all gun related deaths put together. Hell, you're 7x more likely to die on your way to work tomorrow morning than you are to get killed by a gun.

Going back to the 5,100 number, 29% of those occur in the big 4 crime cities of Chicago, Baltimore, Washington DC, and Detroit. What do all of those cities have in common? Really strict gun control laws. It's proof that gun control legislation does not work. All it did was disarm people who had no intent of ever committing a crime or turned everyday non-criminal citizens into criminals with the stroke of a pen. The criminals certainly don't care about legislation, especially when they have half the city PD on their payroll.

When you really stop to think about the issue at hand and think about it logically, you can see the big picture. When you make uninformed knee-jerk emotional reactions like gun control legislation, you end up with piss poor legislation that solves nothing except to disarm innocent people who never committed a crime.
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Last edited by RDY4WAR; October 5th, 2017 at 02:30 AM.
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post #47 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 07:47 AM
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^^^ That just about covers it.

I would also like to add that none, absolutely none of the gun control measures pushed in the past would have stopped this shooting.

P.S. I don't mind people advocating Australian-style gun control as long as they intend to implement it the correct way through a Constitutional amendment. But the likelihood of getting 2/3 of both houses and 3/4 of the states to agree is pretty much non-existent. That is why gun control advocates want activists judges who will interpret our Constitutional rights away.
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post #48 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 11:37 AM
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Well since we're going to politics regardless of whether this thread moves to that section or not, why not show some standard retarded Fox News statements:

Better preempt some other-side propaganda speculative bullshit to get your dumb-ass base to dissociate themselves with the shooter - because being a sadistic psychopath alone just isn't enough...

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post #49 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 12:06 PM
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We all acknowledge that the mass media is more worried about about their ratings and bottom dollar than telling the truth. Speculation makes them more money than waiting to find out the truth. We don't make legislation based on assumptions... or at least we're not supposed to.

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post #50 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 12:44 PM
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I read an article that said there were only 2 bump fire stocks in the room and neither were outfitted.
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post #51 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 01:37 PM
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was it ever confirmed how he died? most of the reports i read said he killed himself, but the police said they killed him when they gained entry

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post #52 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 01:51 PM
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Saw this on svtp
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post #53 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 01:52 PM
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was it ever confirmed how he died? most of the reports i read said he killed himself, but the police said they killed him when they gained entry
The report I read said that the police decided to clear the floor before going to the shooter's room because the shooting had stopped. When they finally entered they found him dead.

P.S. Any mention of gun control automatically throws the discussion into the political realm.

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post #54 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 02:21 PM
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Saw this on svtp
Notice the date was 9/11.

Wouldn't call that a valid warning.

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post #55 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 03:08 PM
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https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/la...ne-gun-n807576

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post #56 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 04:26 PM
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Saw this on svtp
jesus christ retarded

Look I know the government can be sketchy and conspiracies in the past have been true (MKULTRA, etc), but some autist on 4Chan doesn't know dick about shit. And I can easily see the 'tards on SVTP eating it up like a bunch of return-of-jesus-apocalypse-obama-antichrist-prepper morons.

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The report I read said that the police decided to clear the floor before going to the shooter's room because the shooting had stopped. When they finally entered they found him dead.

P.S. Any mention of gun control automatically throws the discussion into the political realm.
From the article my wife was reading, it said he shot himself when the hotel security guard came up and then it took another [however long] for the police to eventually take the door down.

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post #57 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 04:40 PM
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The one time that I fired a bump stock my thoughts were OK, fun but no accuracy. My second thought was I didn't care much for it. Of the reviews I have since seen most were calling it something fun for the rifle range but not practical. I don't think anyone (especially myself) ever thought that a lunatic would fire at a crowd of 22,000 from a 32 story window 500-600 yards away. There was no accuracy required because there was no specific target. He was pointing at a large mass of people and he didn't care who he hit.

The ATF has twice approved the sale of bump stocks. In the aftermath of the Vegas shooting people now realize what a lunatic can do. The National Rifle Association has called on the ATF to review the use of the bump stock device to see if they comply with federal law.
NRA calls for ATF review of bump stocks, new regulations after Las Vegas shooting | Fox News

This is one device I don't think I'd rush out an buy. Politicians on both sides of the isle are talking about making them illegal and I really doubt they will grandfather existing bump stocks. Instead of banning them outright they might make them a title 2 device. If you buy one be prepared to dig deep into your pocket to pay for the corresponding tax.

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post #58 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 04:42 PM
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jesus christ retarded

Look I know the government can be sketchy and conspiracies in the past have been true (MKULTRA, etc), but some autist on 4Chan doesn't know dick about shit. And I can easily see the 'tards on SVTP eating it up like a bunch of return-of-jesus-apocalypse-obama-antichrist-prepper morons.



From the article my wife was reading, it said he shot himself when the hotel security guard came up and then it took another [however long] for the police to eventually take the door down.
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy but it is weird that someone pointed it out 3 weeks before saying something big was going to happen in a crowded area in Vegas.

This dude had been planning this for over a year they estimate. There is a chance someone else knew about it or was part of making it happen.

Media said there was a bunch of tannerite in his car too, guy meant business. Even had a back up plan it appears.
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post #59 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 04:43 PM
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The one time that I fired a bump stock my thoughts were OK, fun but no accuracy. My second thought was I didn't care much for it. Of the reviews I have since seen most were calling it something fun for the rifle range but not practical. I don't think anyone (especially myself) ever thought that a lunatic would fire at a crowd of 22,000 from a 32 story window 500-600 yards away. There was no accuracy required because there was no specific target. He was pointing at a large mass of people and he didn't care who he hit.

The ATF has twice approved the use of a bump stock. In the aftermath of the Vegas shooting people now realize what a lunatic can do. The National Rifle Association has called on the ATF to review the use of the bump stock device.
NRA calls for ATF review of bump stocks, new regulations after Las Vegas shooting | Fox News
Ah shit, the deep state has infiltrated the NRA!!! *installs tinfoil brain*


Hey! I found JohnC's Fox News commenting account:



Just kidding JohnC

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post #60 of 73 Old October 5th, 2017, 07:27 PM
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The thing that gets me is there is no indication of why he did it. He had no record and he passed background checks numerous times.

By the way, Senator Schumer is talking about universal background checks again. He has his pet policy and he doesn't want to waste a good crisis. I really wish they would look at the incident and talk about that instead of always bringing up their pet policies.

P.S. If I remember correctly the guns used every mass shooting recently were purchased legally and background checks were completed.

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